[1.8.x] UnKerballed Start v1.1.0 (updated Oct 27, 2019)

[SpinkAkron]

3 hours ago, kcs123 said:

Might be good idea to put that info in OP, as optional or recommended mods, below those that are required. CKAN is also capable to offer list of recommended mods for best experience, but you have to contact someone from CKAN staff for more detailed info. IIRC, it is just certain file with listed mods in JSON format or something, but can't tell for sure how exactly to do that.

Yeah, I've been meaning to do that.

1.0.3 released

1.0.3    Incorporated ModZero's fix for LV05 and LV10 attachment nodes when Restock is installed and Missing History is not.

savegame impact: None

Thanks to@ModZero for the fix!

Edited March 17, 2019 by SpinkAkron

[SpinkAkron]

1.0.4 released.

1.0.4    Fixed the fix for LV10 attachment nodes that I failed to fix.

I'm sorry guys, I screwed up the Restock fix for the LV10 when Missing History is also installed.

[thetaprime]

Might I suggest putting the command seat and one control surface on the tier-1 nodes so that GAP contracts can fire it's starter contracts as per their description:

"The Wright Aeronautical: Build and fly your first glider! contract will appear when you've acquired a Command Seat, and any flying control surfaces."

This way you can also be starting your budding aeronautical path as well.Thanks.

[theonegalen]

I've been working on / playing with a config for the QuizTech Aero Pack - it has a few parts to expand Mk2 fuselage options, including a cool F-35B VTOL engine and liftfan. I've just placed the parts in nodes that seem logical. I'll have to play with it a little bit more to make sure it balances well.

@SpinkAkron for Grounded and Omega's Stockalike Utility Vehicles, when did you plan for players to have access to ground vehicles? It makes sense from a historical perspective, that kerbals will have likely invented ground transportation before they start experimenting with rocketry, but from a gameplay perspective I'm not sure if you wanted to delay that in order to prevent the long-range farming of ground science until later in the tech tree.

Edited March 18, 2019 by theonegalen

[SpinkAkron]

47 minutes ago, theonegalen said:

I've been working on / playing with a config for the QuizTech Aero Pack - it has a few parts to expand Mk2 fuselage options, including a cool F-35B VTOL engine and liftfan. I've just placed the parts in nodes that seem logical. I'll have to play with it a little bit more to make sure it balances well.

@SpinkAkron for Grounded and Omega's Stockalike Utility Vehicles, when did you plan for players to have access to ground vehicles? It makes sense from a historical perspective, that kerbals will have likely invented ground transportation before they start experimenting with rocketry, but from a gameplay perspective I'm not sure if you wanted to delay that in order to prevent the long-range farming of ground science until later in the tech tree.

I don't know if there's an Official Kerbal Origin Story, but I've always thought of them as the janitorial crewman stranded by some more advanced species. That's why they seem to know so little about Kerbin or anything else.  The chronology of their technological advancement can be pretty much whatever we like.  Some combination of the remnants of technology left behind and whatever they figured out afterwards. It doesn't have to mirror ours.

So my thought with aeronautics coming in on tier two is not that it is necessarily invented at that point. Whenever they developed it, this is the time when it gets integrated into the Space Program.  Same with the ground vehicles. They can come it at the start or any point thereafter.  Whatever you think is fine with me.

This looks like a good time to announce that @theonegalen has agreed to come on board as UKS co-developer.  He's bringing his expertise and vision to take UKS into whatever future lies in store.  So many thanks and huzzah!

Edited March 19, 2019 by SpinkAkron

[theonegalen]

On 3/18/2019 at 7:20 PM, SpinkAkron said:

I don't know if there's an Official Kerbal Origin Story, but I've always thought of them as the janitorial crewman stranded by some more advanced species. That's why they seem to know so little about Kerbin or anything else.  The chronology of their technological advancement can be pretty much whatever we like.  Some combination of the remnants of technology left behind and whatever they figured out afterwards. It doesn't have to mirror ours.

Haha, okay. I've always liked the theory that they had to retreat underground for centuries after a nuclear winter caused by the asteroid that made the huge crater on the other continent. The Space Program, then, is an attempt to understand their planet and the solar system around it since the Great Shattering, or whatever.

On 3/18/2019 at 7:20 PM, SpinkAkron said:

This looks like a good time to announce that @theonegalen has agreed to come on board as UKS co-developer.  He's bringing his expertise and vision to take UKS into whatever future lies in store.  So many thanks and huzzah!

Yes, I'm very glad to be officially part of the now two-person UKS team! I'm so glad that SpinkAkron decided to start this project. It was his vision and passion for a new replacement for the defunct Unmanned Before Manned techtree that inspired me to get back into the techtree business. I also really appreciate his more radical changes to the early game than I was comfortable making while maintaining UBM extended.

Edited March 20, 2019 by theonegalen

[gamerscircle]

I don't know if this is a valid question;

I have been using this mod for about a week now.. really loving it.. challenging and keeps me on my toes.

I had to install it manually, as through CKAN, it was going to install the "Bark Kit" [or something like that]  and I didn't want to use that mod.

Questions - Is there a way that , that can be disabled as a dependency or incorporate KSP-AVC?

Edited March 22, 2019 by gamerscircle

[SpinkAkron]

12 hours ago, gamerscircle said:

I don't know if this is a valid question;

I have been using this mod for about a week now.. really loving it.. challenging and keeps me on my toes.

I had to install it manually, as through CKAN, it was going to install the "Bark Kit" [or something like that]  and I didn't want to use that mod.

Questions - Is there a way that , that can be disabled as a dependency or incorporate KSP-AVC?

Custom Barn Kit is to facilitate the optional change swapping the upgrade costs for the VAB/Launchpad. This was done because the 30"part limit becomes a limitation before the weight limit due to using multiple small parts. I don't know how to make a CKAN dependency optional. I you don't want to use it, remove the custombarnkit cfg in UnKerballedStart folder. Having Custom Barn Kit installed will have no effect without the cfg file. Or just don't install it, which looks like the route you took. 

[Dunbaratu]

Is there a recommended contract pack to go with this?

I started playing through a career of it and while it looks like the tech tree rearrangement is perfect for doing what the mod wants to do, the stock contracts still don't really support doing lots of near-Kerbin stuff first (like for example space stations.  The standard space station contracts don't start appearing till later, but this mod is supposed to let you start on space stations before you start really going far away.)  I was wondering if there's a good recommended contract mod to pair with this.  (And if so, maybe making it appear in the CKAN recommended mods for it would be good).

Edited March 22, 2019 by Steven Mading

[kcs123]

1 hour ago, Steven Mading said:

Is there a recommended contract pack to go with this?

I started playing through a career of it and while it looks like the tech tree rearrangement is perfect for doing what the mod wants to do, the stock contracts still don't really support doing lots of near-Kerbin stuff first (like for example space stations.  The standard space station contracts don't start appearing till later, but this mod is supposed to let you start on space stations before you start really going far away.)  I was wondering if there's a good recommended contract mod to pair with this.  (And if so, maybe making it appear in the CKAN recommended mods for it would be good).

On previous page:

I still can't find enough free time for proper career playtrough, so can't recommend anything from personal experience yet.

[SpinkAkron]

Thanks for handling that, @kcs123.  I'll get a recommended mod list up this evening. Been a bit distracted what with the biblical flooding and all.

 

[kcs123]

1 hour ago, SpinkAkron said:

Thanks for handling that, @kcs123.  I'll get a recommended mod list up this evening. Been a bit distracted what with the biblical flooding and all.

You are welcome. And answering here and there to point out people in right direction is only help I'm able to provide for now. I hope that I will be able to offer more help in future, but real life commitments are currently quite of obstacle for me. I hope that I will be able to enjoy career mode playtrough with this mod soon, though.

[SpinkAkron]

I finally added my recommended mods to the first post.  Like I tell my wife, if a man says he's going to do something, he's going to do it. You don't have to keep reminding him every six months. 

[jonassm]

Thanks Spink!

 

Also, if using remotetech, would it make more sense to use the root model? Or is it "supposed" to be so you cant do interplanetary trips before tech 5/6?

[SpinkAkron]

12 hours ago, jonassm said:

Thanks Spink!

Also, if using remotetech, would it make more sense to use the root model? Or is it "supposed" to be so you cant do interplanetary trips before tech 5/6?

I dunno. I always have used RemoteTech, have never used the the root model.  The way I play, I seldom make it out of Kerbin SOI , so I've never had the chance to see what difference it makes.  I'm not expecting to do a manned mission to even the Mun til tech 5.

What do you think would be the best setting?

[theonegalen]

On 3/22/2019 at 11:06 AM, Steven Mading said:

Is there a recommended contract pack to go with this?

I started playing through a career of it and while it looks like the tech tree rearrangement is perfect for doing what the mod wants to do, the stock contracts still don't really support doing lots of near-Kerbin stuff first (like for example space stations.  The standard space station contracts don't start appearing till later, but this mod is supposed to let you start on space stations before you start really going far away.)  I was wondering if there's a good recommended contract mod to pair with this.  (And if so, maybe making it appear in the CKAN recommended mods for it would be good).

I've been using Pap's Career Evolution pack. It hasn't been updated in a while, but it seems to work just fine, except for the bases and stations section, so I'm using Bases and Stations Reborn alongside it. I'm also using Giving Aircraft A Purpose. If you're not a plane person like I am, you won't want that.

 

[MisfitMarius]

Awesome work on this mod guys, it's gonna be a key part of my next playthrough. I have a question though: as some of Nertea's mods, and some of the USI mods, are explicitly mentioned as being compatible with UKS and CTT, both in the OP of this thread and the OP of the CTT thread, can I assume that ALL Nertea and USI mods are integrated? Seeing as CTT is made by Nertea, his mods are fully supported in CTT, but does that filter through into UKS? How about the other USI mods that aren't specifically mentioned?

TIA o7

 

[kcs123]

AFAIK, parts from mod that is compatible with CTT (have MM patch to set parts in certain CTT tech node) and not altered by any other mod later on (in this case UKS) remains in same named CTT node. Where such CTT node is positioned in new altered tech tree is different matter, though. It may or may not influence overall gamebalance, depending on science cost and what other node you need to unlock before node where USI parts is placed. But, regardless, USI parts should show up in tech tree under determinated tech node as long as UKS tech tree have same node name as CTT.

Should be re-positioned to some other science node on tech tree or not, for gamebalance reasons is something that can be discussed. IIRC, Yemo found USI life support mod overcomlicated to continue maintenance of SETICtt, but USI parts have worked just fine even without re-positioning to different tech node. Haven't tried it yet in KSP 1.6.x but, based on previous experience, it should work fine. It is possible to be unbalanced, compared to placement of other parts, but should work otherwise.

[MisfitMarius]

26 minutes ago, kcs123 said:

AFAIK, parts from mod that is compatible with CTT (have MM patch to set parts in certain CTT tech node) and not altered by any other mod later on (in this case UKS) remains in same named CTT node. Where such CTT node is positioned in new altered tech tree is different matter, though. It may or may not influence overall gamebalance, depending on science cost and what other node you need to unlock before node where USI parts is placed. But, regardless, USI parts should show up in tech tree under determinated tech node as long as UKS tech tree have same node name as CTT.

Should be re-positioned to some other science node on tech tree or not, for gamebalance reasons is something that can be discussed. IIRC, Yemo found USI life support mod overcomlicated to continue maintenance of SETICtt, but USI parts have worked just fine even without re-positioning to different tech node. Haven't tried it yet in KSP 1.6.x but, based on previous experience, it should work fine. It is possible to be unbalanced, compared to placement of other parts, but should work otherwise.

That's great, thanks o7

[SpinkAkron]

52 minutes ago, MisfitMarius said:

Awesome work on this mod guys, it's gonna be a key part of my next playthrough. I have a question though: as some of Nertea's mods, and some of the USI mods, are explicitly mentioned as being compatible with UKS and CTT, both in the OP of this thread and the OP of the CTT thread, can I assume that ALL Nertea and USI mods are integrated? Seeing as CTT is made by Nertea, his mods are fully supported in CTT, but does that filter through into UKS? How about the other USI mods that aren't specifically mentioned?

TIA o7

 

I'd like to make a distinction between compatible and consistent.  The only mods that are not compatible with UKS are other tech tree mods (other than CTT obviously).  All other mods are compatible.  By that I mean they will work as designed and any new parts will show up in the tech tree.  However, the position of new parts may be inconsistent with how UKS re-positions parts, in which case we would provide a config re-positioning them.  If there is a config for a mod in the UnKerballedStart\Mod Support folder, we have done at least a first pass at making a mod consistent with UKS.  Some mods have been looked at and found not to need any adjustments, Near Future Solar, for instance.  Generally,  if a stock part has been moved, any modded part in the same category should also be moved for consistency.

If there is an inconsistent mod you'd like us to make a config for, just let us know and we'll take a look.

Thanks again @kcs123!

 

[MisfitMarius]

1 hour ago, SpinkAkron said:

I'd like to make a distinction between compatible and consistent.  The only mods that are not compatible with UKS are other tech tree mods (other than CTT obviously).  All other mods are compatible.  By that I mean they will work as designed and any new parts will show up in the tech tree.  However, the position of new parts may be inconsistent with how UKS re-positions parts, in which case we would provide a config re-positioning them.  If there is a config for a mod in the UnKerballedStart\Mod Support folder, we have done at least a first pass at making a mod consistent with UKS.  Some mods have been looked at and found not to need any adjustments, Near Future Solar, for instance.  Generally,  if a stock part has been moved, any modded part in the same category should also be moved for consistency.

If there is an inconsistent mod you'd like us to make a config for, just let us know and we'll take a look.

Thanks again @kcs123!

 

Indeed, consistent is a more accurate way of expressing things. It's interesting, what you say about Near Future Solar..... I'd assume the same logic applies to the other "missing" Nertea and USI mods. I guess the best bet is to just go ahead and try things out. If any inconsistencies do rear their head, I'll let you know!

Thanks once again for a great mod o7

[ble210]

I just want to say that this mod is really fantastic.  Getting into space on the first few launches was very easy with stock, however now it is a challenge just to get to the upper atmosphere in the early game.  I have to really think about how I construct my early rockets, and it is has been a really enjoyable experience.

One question- on the front page of the mod, it says it is optional to switch the construction costs of the VAB and launchpad (and spaceplane hanger and runway).  However, it appears that the switched costs is actually default rather than optional.  How do I disable this feature?  I prefer the standard costs for these buildings (although I understand why you changed them).

[SpinkAkron]

54 minutes ago, ble210 said:

One question- on the front page of the mod, it says it is optional to switch the construction costs of the VAB and launchpad (and spaceplane hanger and runway).  However, it appears that the switched costs is actually default rather than optional.  How do I disable this feature?  I prefer the standard costs for these buildings (although I understand why you changed them).

Oh crap, sorry.  I'll have to fix that.  In the UnKerballedStart folder, delete file CustomBarnKit.cfg.

[ble210]

On 3/31/2019 at 7:32 PM, SpinkAkron said:

Oh crap, sorry.  I'll have to fix that.  In the UnKerballedStart folder, delete file CustomBarnKit.cfg.

Thank you, I'll delete the config.

I wonder- is it possible to increase the build limit for the Tier 1 VAB and SPH (from 30 parts to, say, 40)?  I'm not sure if that is even possible to edit, but if so it might address the effects of the increased number of parts needed for early rockets, while maintaining the facility upgrade costs.  If so, I'll try and create a config and test it out.

Edited April 2, 2019 by ble210

[SpinkAkron]

3 hours ago, ble210 said:

Thank you, I'll delete the config.

I wonder- is it possible to increase the build limit for the Tier 1 VAB and SPH (from 30 parts to, say, 40)?  I'm not sure if that is even possible to edit, but if so it might address the effects of the increased number of parts needed for early rockets, while maintaining the facility upgrade costs.  If so, I'll try and create a config and test it out.

Yes, the part count limit can be changed.  See default.cfg in CustomBarnKit folder.

My ideal system would be to have the VAB limits/upgrades apply to the physical dimensions and the launchpad be solely weight.  So if you want to build a taller rocket, you need a bigger VAB.  That's not possible tho.

I chose to to swap the VAB/Launchpad because it kept the total cost the same and just changed the order that you upgrade.