[1.8.x] UnKerballed Start v1.1.0 (updated Oct 27, 2019)

[Kwebib]

I think I read somewhere that the strongest reaction wheels in reality are a tenth as strong as KSP's. Not sure how accurate that is, but I nerfed mine down to 0.1.

[Crixomix]

Hello again. First of all, thank you much for your mod! Very appreciated, I've been enjoying playing through it so far along with the rest of my mod soup.

However, I've noticed a couple items in some of my mods that, given your other balances, seem a bit out of place. Space-Y's two mods (heavy lifters and expanded), as well as Nertea's Cryo Engines + tanks mods.

I can provide my version of a suggested place for the different engines, if you would like some ideas.

Thanks,

[vardicd]

Okay, I need some help, if anyone can give me some advice, I'm trying to make a MM config {Which I'm horrible at, and have never understood MM's language} to adjust the position of some of the larger SRB boosters to later positions in the tech tree, as I feel they are too soon in the tree. So far I can't even get the first part I'm testing on to move. I'm trying to move the Kickback, named [MassiveBooster] in the squad config, unless I've misunderstood something, into the veryheavyRocketry tech node.

I have tried many variations on:

@part[MassiveBooster]:NEEDS[UnKerballedStart]:FINAL
{    
    @TechRequired = veryHeavyRocketry
    }

I've tried AFTER instead of FINAL, I've tried using zzzUnKerballedStart instead of UnKerballedStart.

Beetlecat suggested something simpler:

@part[MassiveBooster]:FINAL { @TechRequired = veryHeavyRocketry }

this did not work either. I do not understand the language of MM, I have read what documentation is available in the MM wiki, and didn't really understand it. I felt like I was trying to read a technical manual written in a foreign language. If someone could explain what I'm doing wrong, I'd be thankful. 

[Beetlecat]

So sorry if I've led you astray, but I've had fine luck using that very syntax to move parts around the tree.

My hunch that some other mod was grabbing that booster (it's the S1 SRB-KD25k "Kickback", right?) led me to suggest just making it :FINAL

So far I'm drawing a blank at how to migrate it--short of us having the part name wrong. Is it getting renamed before we're able to move it?

[vardicd]

2 minutes ago, Beetlecat said:

So sorry if I've led you astray, but I've had fine luck using that very syntax to move parts around the tree.

My hunch that some other mod was grabbing that booster (it's the S1 SRB-KD25k "Kickback", right?) led me to suggest just making it :FINAL

So far I'm drawing a blank at how to migrate it--short of us having the part name wrong. Is it getting renamed before we're able to move it?

Yeah That's the one I'm trying to get to move, I don't have a clue as to how to tell if it's being renamed to anything else, and as far as having it's name wrong, I looked in the squad config for the part and copy pasted the line that says Name = Massivebooster, so I'm pretty sure I've got the right part name, or am I looking at the wrong line?

9 minutes ago, Beetlecat said:

Is it getting renamed before we're able to move it?

Actually come to think of it, I don't think its possible that it's being renamed, I'm using real plume and the real plume effects are being added to the booster, and Realplume calls it out as Massivebooster as well, so we've got the part name right for sure.

[Beetlecat]

Looks like UKS is doing it's own setup of the part:

//heavierRocketry
@PART[MassiveBooster|engineLargeSkipper]:NEEDS[CommunityTechTree]:BEFORE[zzzUnKerballedStart]
{
    @TechRequired = heavierRocketry
}

So just cribbing off of that got the part to move:

//heavierRocketry
@PART[MassiveBooster]:NEEDS[CommunityTechTree]:AFTER[zzzUnKerballedStart]
{
    @TechRequired = veryHeavyRocketry
}

I have *NO* idea why :FINAL wasn't overriding this, but there we go.

(I also have no idea how those zzzModname declarations work. Are they files?)

[Edit -- we didn't want to move the Skipper, too --- Is this why it wasn't being overridden; because it was a compound declaration?]

Edited February 7, 2020 by Beetlecat

[vardicd]

6 minutes ago, Beetlecat said:

Looks like UKS is doing it's own setup of the part:

//heavierRocketry
@PART[MassiveBooster|engineLargeSkipper]:NEEDS[CommunityTechTree]:BEFORE[zzzUnKerballedStart]
{
    @TechRequired = heavierRocketry
}

So just cribbing off of that got the part to move:

//heavierRocketry
@PART[MassiveBooster]:NEEDS[CommunityTechTree]:AFTER[zzzUnKerballedStart]
{
    @TechRequired = veryHeavyRocketry
}

I have *NO* idea why :FINAL wasn't overriding this, but there we go.

(I also have no idea how those zzzModname declarations work. Are they files?)

[Edit -- we didn't want to move the Skipper, too --- Is this why it wasn't being overridden; because it was a compound declaration?]

I'm rebooting the game now with this change to my config, so i'll see if this works, but I had just finished testing trying to move other parts as well, the Pollux booster, and the basic solar panel, just for a non engine part, and neither of them would move from their places either.

[kcs123]

13 hours ago, vardicd said:

I'm rebooting the game now with this change to my config, so i'll see if this works, but I had just finished testing trying to move other parts as well, the Pollux booster, and the basic solar panel, just for a non engine part, and neither of them would move from their places either.

Above MM patch should work. But, since there is several patches that may try to move part around, it is good idea to put your own custom patches in folder with name that start with "Z". Whatever that will ensure that your folder is last in alphabetical sort between all other folders witin Gamedata folder. For example, I have named folder with personal custom patches as "ZX_CustomTweaks". Therefore "FINAL" command in MM patch is not needed.

On the other hand, if in some cases you want some patch to be executed before any other MM commands, you can use some folder with name that starts with "_" or "(".

[dylsh]

I am trying to use this mod, alongside ReStock, and Restock+. Yet I start off with no engines, and there isnt an engine available until Tier 3?

[kcs123]

48 minutes ago, dylsh said:

I am trying to use this mod, alongside ReStock, and Restock+. Yet I start off with no engines, and there isnt an engine available until Tier 3?

Yes, Restock seems to be culprit. Already reported on previous page:

 

[dylsh]

Thanks @kcs123 for the quick response and answer. Is it as simple as white-listing those engine parts for ReStock to allow it to show up in game?

[kcs123]

12 hours ago, dylsh said:

Thanks @kcs123 for the quick response and answer. Is it as simple as white-listing those engine parts for ReStock to allow it to show up in game?

I don't know, I'm not that familiar with Restock mod. It is worth to try. Stock engine names in config files that were copied are "liquidEngine" and "liquidEngine2". UKS copy those parts and put some custom config to scale it down, to be useful for UKS mod. Config files for those part are "UKSliquidEngineLVT05.cfg" and "UKSliquidEngineLVT10.cfg".

And now that I have opened those files, I have found that there is some additional MM command if Restock is installed or not. As well as if some user have MissingHistory DLC or not. I'm not sure what is effect of those additional MM commands. But it also give a clue that UKS was working properly with Restock mod at some point in development. Not sure what exactly happened that those parts are become broken.

Anyhow, there is few options to try. One is that you whitelist mentioned stock engines. If that does not help, then it may be possible to write custom MM config file that would make a copy of Restock engine, instead of stock engine names. Don't know what part name from Restock is suitable for this. Third option would be to use some of Restock engines and put those earlier in tech tree, if there is some comparable engines with size and thrust from Restock mod.

If neither of those help, you could try to ask for help in Restock mod, because, as I said, I'm not familiar with that mod and how exactly works, so I can't give you accurate answer what MM patch can help to resolve issue.

[Kwebib]

I'm not sure how to do it with a custom patch, but you can edit the UnKerballedStart files directly.

In UKSliquidEngineLVT05.cfg and UKSliquidEngineLVT10.cfg, add ":AFTER[ReStock]" after the +PART line like this:

+PART[liquidEngine]:AFTER[ReStock]

+PART[liquidEngine2]:AFTER[ReStock]

 

[dylsh]

1 hour ago, kcs123 said:

I don't know, I'm not that familiar with Restock mod. It is worth to try. Stock engine names in config files that were copied are "liquidEngine" and "liquidEngine2". UKS copy those parts and put some custom config to scale it down, to be useful for UKS mod. Config files for those part are "UKSliquidEngineLVT05.cfg" and "UKSliquidEngineLVT10.cfg".

And now that I have opened those files, I have found that there is some additional MM command if Restock is installed or not. As well as if some user have MissingHistory DLC or not. I'm not sure what is effect of those additional MM commands. But it also give a clue that UKS was working properly with Restock mod at some point in development. Not sure what exactly happened that those parts are become broken.

Anyhow, there is few options to try. One is that you whitelist mentioned stock engines. If that does not help, then it may be possible to write custom MM config file that would make a copy of Restock engine, instead of stock engine names. Don't know what part name from Restock is suitable for this. Third option would be to use some of Restock engines and put those earlier in tech tree, if there is some comparable engines with size and thrust from Restock mod.

If neither of those help, you could try to ask for help in Restock mod, because, as I said, I'm not familiar with that mod and how exactly works, so I can't give you accurate answer what MM patch can help to resolve issue.

 

1 hour ago, Kwebib said:

I'm not sure how to do it with a custom patch, but you can edit the UnKerballedStart files directly.

In UKSliquidEngineLVT05.cfg and UKSliquidEngineLVT10.cfg, add ":AFTER[ReStock]" after the +PART line like this:

+PART[liquidEngine]:AFTER[ReStock]

+PART[liquidEngine2]:AFTER[ReStock]

 

Thank you both for the awesome info! I’ll try these methods later today 

[vardicd]

To whom ever it may concern, looks like today's 1.9 update to some of the engines has caused them to start appearing in nodes they weren't previously, I don't know if the changes to the mainsail and skipper involved changing their internal names, or whatever, but they've suddenly appeared in tech nodes way earlier than they did previously.

EDIT: yep names have changed. mainsail went from name = liquidEngine1-2 [which is now hidden] to name = liquidEngineMainsail_v2 and skipper changed from name =  engineLargeSkipper to name = engineLargeSkipper_v2

EDIT2: In Unkerballed start config, Change line: //rocketry7 @PART[SSME|liquidEngine1-2 to be //rocketry7 @PART[SSME|liquidEngineMainsail_v2 }{ and change //heavierRocketry@PART[MassiveBooster|engineLargeSkipper] to //heavierRocketry @PART[MassiveBooster|engineLargeSkipper_v2] and I believe these 2 should be back to where they need to be.

Edited February 12, 2020 by vardicd

[flart]

•  patch, that tell HideEmptyTreeNode to not hide "tier number nodes":

  @TechTree:NEEDS[UnKerballedStart&HideEmptyTechTreeNodes]:FINAL // FINAL should only be used for user MM scripts, if ever!!!
  {
  	// Hide all empty nodes, initially
  	@RDNode,*
  	{
  		@hideEmpty = True
  	}
  
  	@RDNode:HAS[#id[tier*]]
  	{
  		@hideEmpty = False
  	}
  }

   

• Are you sure CBK patch should be there? It's helpful, I am having similar patch at local folder for larger systems, but how it related to the "Unkerballed Start"?
• em16s light duty motor from the Braking Ground on the Adv. Landing, different brunch from all other motors on the Actuator and Adv. Actuator
• moving SAS-L2 Probes from the NF Exploration to OCTO2:

  @PART[nfex-probe-dsk-1,nfex-probe-rkt-1,nfex-probe-chfr-1]:NEEDS[CommunityTechTree&NearFutureExploration&UnKerballedStart]:FINAL
  {
  	@TechRequired = unmannedTech
  }
  
  
  @PART[nfex-bus-dsk-1,nfex-bus-dsk-2,nfex-bus-rekt-1,nfex-bus-rekt-2,nfex-bus-chfr-1,nfex-bus-chfr-2]:NEEDS[CommunityTechTree&NearFutureExploration&UnKerballedStart]:FINAL
  {
  	@TechRequired = unmannedTech
  }

• Maybe move smallest NF-Electric solar panels early? It too boring early career with only stock solar panels

Edited February 17, 2020 by flart

[gamerscircle]

I am sorry if I am late to the party on this, just curious if anyone has written a MM patch for the 1.9 yet?

[kcs123]

18 hours ago, gamerscircle said:

I am sorry if I am late to the party on this, just curious if anyone has written a MM patch for the 1.9 yet?

It should be fine even without any additional patches. Report if you find out that some of new stock parts (drain valves) should be moved elsewhere on tech tree. I don't know if other stock (revamped) parts have changed names, that is only thing that might break UKS slightly that I can think of right now.

[vardicd]

20 hours ago, gamerscircle said:

I am sorry if I am late to the party on this, just curious if anyone has written a MM patch for the 1.9 yet?

2 hours ago, kcs123 said:

It should be fine even without any additional patches. Report if you find out that some of new stock parts (drain valves) should be moved elsewhere on tech tree. I don't know if other stock (revamped) parts have changed names, that is only thing that might break UKS slightly that I can think of right now.

the new skipper and mainsail models need adjusting in the tree, they have new internal names, while the old models still retain their old names, but are now hidden and unusable. the new skipper and mainsail end up way too early in the tree. 

In Unkerballed start config, Change line: //rocketry7 @PART[SSME|liquidEngine1-2 to be //rocketry7 @PART[SSME|liquidEngineMainsail_v2 }{ and change //heavierRocketry@PART[MassiveBooster|engineLargeSkipper] to //heavierRocketry @PART[MassiveBooster|engineLargeSkipper_v2] and I believe these 2 should be back to where they need to be.

[gamerscircle]

4 hours ago, kcs123 said:

It should be fine even without any additional patches. Report if you find out that some of new stock parts (drain valves) should be moved elsewhere on tech tree. I don't know if other stock (revamped) parts have changed names, that is only thing that might break UKS slightly that I can think of right now.

Today during my stream, I did just that and I was amazed..

How does a modified tech tree that isn't aware of revamped or new parts, have the revamped or new parts??

[lordcirth]

4 hours ago, gamerscircle said:

Today during my stream, I did just that and I was amazed..

How does a modified tech tree that isn't aware of revamped or new parts, have the revamped or new parts??

So long as the node the part is in still exists *somewhere* in the new tree, the part will be put there. The node information is in the part definition, rather than the other way around.

[EchoLima]

Config for CryoEngines.

I'm not very good at balancing so you may want to look over this before using it.

//CryoEngines

//******* Tier 4 ***********************
//advRocketry
@PART[cryoengine-stromboli-1]:NEEDS[CommunityTechTree,CryoEngines]:BEFORE[zzzUnKerballedStart]
{
	@TechRequired = advRocketry
}

//*********************** Tier 5 *********************** 
//propulsionSystems
@PART[cryoengine-hecate-1]:NEEDS[CommunityTechTree,CryoEngines]:BEFORE[zzzUnKerballedStart]
{
	@TechRequired = propulsionSystems
}
//heavyRocketry
@PART[cryoengine-vesuvius-1]:NEEDS[CommunityTechTree,CryoEngines]:BEFORE[zzzUnKerballedStart]
{
	@TechRequired = heavyRocketry
}

//*********************** Tier 6 ***********************
//precisionPropulsion
@PART[cryoengine-pavonis-1]:NEEDS[CommunityTechTree,CryoEngines]:BEFORE[zzzUnKerballedStart] //!
{
	@TechRequired = precisionPropulsion
}
//heavierRocketry
@PART[cryoengine-erebus-1]:NEEDS[CommunityTechTree,CryoEngines]:BEFORE[zzzUnKerballedStart]
{
	@TechRequired = heavierRocketry
}

//*********************** Tier 7 ***********************
//specializedRocketry7
//rocketry7
@PART[cryoengine-fuji-1]:NEEDS[CommunityTechTree,CryoEngines]:BEFORE[zzzUnKerballedStart]    
{
	@TechRequired = rocketry7
}

//*********************** Tier 8 ***********************
//specializedRocketry8
@PART[cryoengine-ulysses-1]:NEEDS[CommunityTechTree,CryoEngines]:BEFORE[zzzUnKerballedStart]
{
	@TechRequired = specializedRocketry8
}
//veryHeavyRocketry

//*********************** Tier 9 ***********************
//specializedRocketry9
@PART[cryoengine-tharsis-1]:NEEDS[CommunityTechTree,CryoEngines]:BEFORE[zzzUnKerballedStart]  //!
{
	@TechRequired = specializedRocketry9
}
//experimentalRocketry
@PART[cryoengine-etna-1]:NEEDS[CommunityTechTree,CryoEngines]:BEFORE[zzzUnKerballedStart]
{
	@TechRequired = experimentalRocketry
}

//*********************** Tier 10 ***********************
//specializedRocketry10
//giganticRocketry

//*********************** Tier 11 ***********************
//specializedRocketry11
//colossalRocketry

 

Edited February 21, 2020 by EchoLima

[kcs123]

22 hours ago, vardicd said:

the new skipper and mainsail models need adjusting in the tree, they have new internal names, while the old models still retain their old names, but are now hidden and unusable. the new skipper and mainsail end up way too early in the tree. 

In Unkerballed start config, Change line: //rocketry7 @PART[SSME|liquidEngine1-2 to be //rocketry7 @PART[SSME|liquidEngineMainsail_v2 }{ and change //heavierRocketry@PART[MassiveBooster|engineLargeSkipper] to //heavierRocketry @PART[MassiveBooster|engineLargeSkipper_v2] and I believe these 2 should be back to where they need to be.

I have recalled that something may be changed somewhere, but I forgot to look in this thread just few posts above before answering. Thanks for reminder. I should probably check if I need new pair of glasses too .

19 hours ago, gamerscircle said:

How does a modified tech tree that isn't aware of revamped or new parts, have the revamped or new parts??

As lon as some parts is configured properly for either, stock tech tree node or CTT it will work properly with UKS, although, with possible minor gamebalance issues. Reason why it works is that CTT tech tree contains all of stock tech tree node names beside new ones for other moded parts. UKS contains both of those as well as few it's own nodes for gamebalance purposes and ability to avoid unlocking parts tha you might not need.

For everyone else, instead of editing existing files and until official UKS update, you can write your own config file and put in there following:

// Unkreballed start KSP 1.9x config changes for new stock engine names

//rocketry7
@PART[SSME|liquidEngineMainsail_v2|Size2LFB]:NEEDS[CommunityTechTree]:BEFORE[zzzUnKerballedStart]
{
	@TechRequired = rocketry7
}

//heavierRocketry
@PART[MassiveBooster|engineLargeSkipper_v2]:NEEDS[CommunityTechTree]:BEFORE[zzzUnKerballedStart]
{
	@TechRequired = heavierRocketry
}

That way, if you need to re-install UKS for whatever reason, you don't need to edit again same config file and it would not do any harm when UKS is updated either.

[jrosen]

I've been enjoying this mod and recently upgraded from 1.7.3 to the most current version of KSP.  In doing so, I now have Pollux booster that I don't believe I should have as I just recently unlocked the Thumper booster.  I searched this thread and saw people talking about moving the booster later down the tech tree.  Is there a recommended location for this booster?

 

Thanks

[kcs123]

On 2/24/2020 at 5:01 PM, jrosen said:

I've been enjoying this mod and recently upgraded from 1.7.3 to the most current version of KSP.  In doing so, I now have Pollux booster that I don't believe I should have as I just recently unlocked the Thumper booster.  I searched this thread and saw people talking about moving the booster later down the tech tree.  Is there a recommended location for this booster?

 

Thanks

Everything is subject to change, I have yet to begin new career game in KSP 1.9, but I think that @Beetlecat suggestion reasonable good:

veryHeavyRocketry seems to be good suggestion. You may want to use similar MM patch as in linked post, just use proper part name for Thumper booster. If you think that better place for Thumper booster should be sooner or later in tech tree, give a feedback with suggestion where it may be more apropriate place, so we can create different MM patch for that. We can only help each other while waiting for official UKS update and it will be easier for SpikAkron to create update once available free time for moding allows it.