[1.12.5] SIMPLEX Propulsion 2.5

[theJesuit]

SIMPLEX Propulsion

A mod that causes the atmospheric performance of all engines, and offers more natural fuel ratios.

DOWNLOAD at Spacedock

Requires:

• Module Manager (not included).
• Stock TechTree , TETRIX TechTree, or SIMPLEX TechTree, or QUARTIX TechTree
• Otherwise can be a standalone mod.

Recommends:

• SIMPLEX Resources which now handles Fuel changes, and has options for PowderFuel ISRU and Nuclear Generators!

 

Engines 

The performance of engines is nerfed in atmosphere only.  Vacuum performance remains unchanged.  It's purpose is an attempt at forcing the creation of two stage rockets to get into orbit around Kerbin, but retaining the STOCK feel of KSP once in vacuum.

The performance at sea level on Kerbin is 70% of stock values. Vacuum performance is unaffected and so the performance improvement as you ascend is far greater rate than stock as it normalises.

 

Engine Block Upgrades

Engines that are designed to be used to launch rockets from Kerbin (Swivel, Reliant, Skipper etc.) have Part Upgrades to improve their atmospheric performance to 77% stock.

Vacuum engines (such as Terrier or Poodle) do not have upgrades.

These upgrades are available in upgrade nodes attached to the unlocking Tech Tree nodes where the engines are unlocked.  Effectively costed 60% more science to increase power and efficiency by 10%.

 

With JNSQ

Engines will instead be nerfed to only 90% stock values at sea level. The upgrade will restore values to 100% stock.

 

Other mods

This is a global nerf so all mod engines are affected.  NearFuture suite and Methalox CryoEngines are supported with upgrades. 

 

PALOX and PALOXUS

These are new engines that run on a Powdered Aluminum and Oxygen suspension.  Effectively a throttleable  solid fuel engine that acts as a monopropellant engine.  It is a late game vacuum only engine and works with SIMPLEX Resources in mind.  PowderedFuel only requires NaturalOre to be produced. 

 

EMERGE

This new engine is a beefed up Magnetic Plasma Ion Engine engine that requires a large amounts of EC.  Again designed with SIMPLEX Resources in mind with its nuclear reactors.  It is a late game vacuum only engine that is a little less powerful than the poodle, but will require either a large amount or energy storage, or a nuclear reactor to keep things running.

 

THANKS AND ACKNOWLEDGMENT

@Jimbodiah for the inspiration with the config he made for SSRSS.  Check it out here: https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/169534-12x-13x-simple-rss-patch/

@riocrokite for inspiration from SAFIRE and the persuasive work he did with ratios.  Check out his mod and explanations here: https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/181591-16x-safire-stockalike-adjustments-to-fuels-isru-ratios-and-engines-21-01-2019/.

Peace.

 

Edited November 3 by theJesuit
Update to 2.5

[theJesuit]

Hi all,

So we hit 52 downloads over night (gosh CKAN helps :). Thanks for giving it a go.

I would be keen to know whether people are playing with other Simplex Mods or opt to not use the upgradesign or fuel ratio change.

I've noticed an issue potentially with only simplex mods AND kerbalism and not having an ability to mine NaturalOre (to bake oxidiser).  I'll look at this over the next few days.  All other combinations look good though.

So as I said, thanks for trying it out and feedback would be appreciated.  I'm happy for a PM.

Peace.

[theJesuit]

Hi everyone,

There will be an update at some point.   I'm going to add an engine!

Theis will be a aluminium/ox throttleable (sp?) Rocket engine.  The idea being that it is to SolidFuel what LF/ox is to MonoPropellant. 

The idea being that it will be a low ISP med thrust vacuum only engine.  Suitable for lifting off the Mün.  With ISRU and SimplexResouces the fuel and Oxidizer will come from NaturalOre only.

The concept comes form a NASA study into a rocket fuel using  only Moon  abundantin eras in the regolith.  Hydrogen in a few small spots in polar craters doesn't qualify as abundant IMHO.

No ETA yet.

Peace 

[FreeThinker]

@theJesuit

Perhaps you want to check out

https://github.com/sswelm/KSP-Interstellar-Extended/tree/master/GameData/InterstellarHybridRocketry

[theJesuit]

2 hours ago, FreeThinker said:

@theJesuit

Perhaps you want to check out

https://github.com/sswelm/KSP-Interstellar-Extended/tree/master/GameData/InterstellarHybridRocketry

Yes I saw this the other day.  The use of the stock engine gave me the idea for the model.   

Peace.

[theJesuit]

Hello everyone!

I'm brushing off this mod again as I'm wanting to use it with the TETRIX TechTree and have it applicable to making JNSQ and other 2.5ish size systems harder

TERIX is having a little 'under-the-hood' update in regards to the upgrade nodes, so this needed updating to remain compatible.

Also, there have been stock engines which are renamed to "v2" so these need updating too.

So the plans are:

• Have only 1 upgrade block rather than two
• The SAFIRE inspired change in Resources will be taken out as SIMPLEX Resources does this more comprehensively.
• With JNSQ upscaled systems, the overall abilities will be nerfed to 90% overall rather than the scaled atmospheric curve.    The upgrade will restore it back to it's full 100% vanilla thrust and ISP requiring more science!
• With vanilla sized systems, the curve will be reduced to 70% at sea level but remain at 100% in vacuum.   The upgrade will bring it back to 85% at sea level.
• The SIMPLEX TechTree will have its engine nerf removed (it had been for TETRIX anyway)
• This will apply to all Solid Fuel and LF only and LF/O rockets. 

[theJesuit]

Update as this is being worked on...

Im wondering about adding more ignitions in upgrades when kerbalism is installed.

Also...

The idea for a late game engine that is analogous to an Aluminium Oxygen rocket.

The new fuel will be Powdered Fuel.  The engine will be called PALOX.

ISRU will require only Natural Ore.  So this will be a single source Ore fuel... hence late game.

ISP will be 285 in vacuum.  Not sure about thrust yet.

Oh, and the engine will be throttleable.

[theJesuit]

On 9/20/2021 at 9:30 PM, theJesuit said:

Update as this is being worked on...

Im wondering about adding more ignitions in upgrades when kerbalism is installed.

Also...

The idea for a late game engine that is analogous to an Aluminium Oxygen rocket.

The new fuel will be Powdered Fuel.  The engine will be called PALOX.

ISRU will require only Natural Ore.  So this will be a single source Ore fuel... hence late game.

ISP will be 285 in vacuum.  Not sure about thrust yet.

Oh, and the engine will be throttleable.

Further update - 

Was getting really bad NREs?  Nasty communications in the log with the initial redo of the upgrades.  This is now sorted.

Obviously atmospheric tuned rocket engines only get upgrades.  Not ones designed for vacuum.

Making History, Missing History, ReStock engines coded.  Will look at NearFuture engines Cryoengines as well.

 

New engine PALOX - Tier 7 engine. 2.5m 

New engine PALOXUS - Tier 8 engine. (bigger capacity, more thrust, 3.75m)

The PALOX fuel will be PF or Powder Fuel.  This will be a mono propellant similar to SolidFuel, but the engine will be vacuum and it will be throttleable. 

The density (mass?) of the PF will be the same as NaturalOre, or MetalOre in CRP.  The ISRU (needs SIMPLEX Heavy ISRU, tier 8) recombines the constituent stuff of NaturalOre to be combustible.

The fuel tanks will have low heat tolerance, as will the engine.  Possibly will need active radiators to work.

 

Peace.

 

[theJesuit]

Working on balance for the Palox engines currently.  

Looking at making the Palox 2.5m one cpable for lifting a 36ton (orange tank) to Mun orbit from the surface interms of thrust fully loaded.  May have enough delta vee to get to LKO with that orange tank too. I may make this closer to 36.5 ton to allow for probe sections, docking, power comms etc.

The Paloxus 3.75m should be capable of lifting say 9ton total into orbit from Tylo's surface but no further.  As the engines carry their own fuel, the Paloxus will need to reduce the amount of fuel to a bare minimum to get the TWR from Tylo enough.

I haven't started on the heat balance yet so the masses I want to get off each body will have to cope with radiators and power too.

[theJesuit]

Updated to 2.0

[theJesuit]

Updated to 2.1

PowderFuel resource added so as not to rely on Simplex Resources.

Stock Teach Tree supported again.

This can be a standalone mod.

[theJesuit]

Updated to 2.2

Added support for ReStock.  Pretty.

[theJesuit]

Updated to 2.3.

Added a new engine - "EMERGE" Efficient Magneto Electric Rocket General Engine

Basically  a souped up ion engine for crewed craft.

[kurgut]

Hi @theJesuit,

'got a little question : I'm using a patch from simplex propulsion in my stock planet install, but after relfection, I want it to be even harder.

(this patch : )

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleEngines*]]:NEEDS[!JNSQ]:Final
	{	@MODULE[ModuleEngines*]:HAS[RESOURCE[!CryoFuel]]
			{ 	@atmosphereCurve
					{	@key[1, ] *= 1
						@key,1[1, ] *= .7
						@key,2[1, ] *= .35
					}
			}
	}

So naturally I tought  of reducing @key, 1[1,  ] *= 0.7 to something lower, like 0.65 or 0.6.

But I wondered what does the last key do ? First one is vac, 2nd sea lvl. Is third one a curve ? In which case I'd be interested tweaking it maybe, like to make engines acquire their full vacuum ISP at higher altitude than they currently are... but I'm not sure, maybe it's better to again lower sea lvl isp. Tell me what you think  

Thanks for help !  

[theJesuit]

Just now, kurgut said:

naturally I tought  of reducing @key, 1[1,  ] *= 0.7 to something lower, like 0.65 or 0.6.

The originator of the patch had .7 for everything. But i wanted to keep the vacuum isp close to stock and just affect ASL launches.

.6 would be good.  But you are right, the third one creates a curve by specificing the isp curve across three points.  My suggestion would be to halve the third data point to whatever the second one is.

[kurgut]

2 minutes ago, theJesuit said:

The originator of the patch had .7 for everything. But i wanted to keep the vacuum isp close to stock and just affect ASL launches.

Thanks !  Yeah my intention is the same, only affecting launches indeed.
Ok, so  that would give :

	@atmosphereCurve
	{	@key[1, ] *= 1
		@key,1[1, ] *= .6
		@key,2[1, ] *= .18
	}

Am I correct ?

Edited May 10, 2023 by kurgut

[theJesuit]

@atmosphereCurve
	{	@key[1, ] *= 1
		@key,1[1, ] *= .6
		@key,2[1, ] *= .3
	}

 

Use this one otherwise the curve will bend unexpectantly rather than translateing down

[shifty803]

Hello there again @theJesuit 

I have been playing with QUARTIX tech tree and installed exactly the mods you recommend (although I've added visual enhancements of various kinds).

The engine nerf only kicks in when I apply the upgrade for some reason.

E.g. they start at 100% thrust ASL and after the upgrade go down to 77% thrust. For example, LV-T45 has ~168 kN until the upgrade, and ~129 kN after.

Any ideas?

Edit2: I just tested this with both Stock and Quartix trees, and neither one has nerfed engines. I have Module Manager and SIMPLEXProp, Resources, and StationParts only.

Edit2: Confirmed on fresh copy of KSP with Module Manager and SIMPLEXProp only. The patch isn't applied until the upgrade is purchased.

Edit3:  The patch only works if you remove the section looking for RESOURCES keyed to Cryofuel.

The code below has the desired result.

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleEngines*]]:Final
	{	@MODULE[ModuleEngines*]
			{ 	@atmosphereCurve
					{	@key[1, ] *= 1
						@key,1[1, ] *= .7
						@key,2[1, ] *= .35
					}
			}
	}

But this code does nothing:
 

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleEngines*]]:Final
	{	@MODULE[ModuleEngines*]:HAS[RESOURCE[!CryoFuel]]
			{ 	@atmosphereCurve
					{	@key[1, ] *= 1
						@key,1[1, ] *= .7
						@key,2[1, ] *= .35
					}
			}
	}

 

Edited June 10 by shifty803

[theJesuit]

2 hours ago, shifty803 said:

Hello there again @theJesuit 

I have been playing with QUARTIX tech tree and installed exactly the mods you recommend (although I've added visual enhancements of various kinds).

The engine nerf only kicks in when I apply the upgrade for some reason.

E.g. they start at 100% thrust ASL and after the upgrade go down to 77% thrust. For example, LV-T45 has ~168 kN until the upgrade, and ~129 kN after.

Any ideas?

Edit2: I just tested this with both Stock and Quartix trees, and neither one has nerfed engines. I have Module Manager and SIMPLEXProp, Resources, and StationParts only.

Edit2: Confirmed on fresh copy of KSP with Module Manager and SIMPLEXProp only. The patch isn't applied until the upgrade is purchased.

Edit3:  The patch only works if you remove the section looking for RESOURCES keyed to Cryofuel.
 

Wow!  Great find.

I was wondering about on my latest playthrough - I guess i thought it just worked.

I am planning an update to this in the very near future.  But I need to go and work out where I went wrong with this.

Thank you so much!

[theJesuit]

Thanks to @shifty803 who picked up that the upgrades were not being applied.  Now fixed in an update!

This was due to a FOR in a patch that was applying other patches inappropriately.  This kept on flying under my radar.

[shifty803]

Cool.

I have to ask - was your play-testing of QUARTIX, etcetera performed while this bug was affecting engine performance?

The correct nerf feels pretty severe in the early game I must say. I expected it to feel like playing JNSQ or something, but actually it feels a lot nastier. Maybe that is just me.

Edited June 28 by shifty803

[theJesuit]

It should be about the same as JNSQ?  JnSQ patch is 0.9, stock is 0.7 from memeory.... I'll nees to recheck. 

Yes it was affecting performance on my playthrough and I've  now realised that I've been playing the incorrect patch for 18 months.  It is a shame we don't have facepalm emoji. Consider me embarrassed.

Your pointing this out has an added benefit though.  The FOR patch causes MM to apply all patches everywhere as if the mod were installed.  In my recent grand suite update I was able to troubleshoot so much more easily.  Thanks again!

As for the nerf, it is supposed to hard.  The values were taken from another mod which nerfed the vacuum engines as well to 0.7.  I keep vacuum performance stock.  I'm happy to consider suggestions though.

Peace.

[shifty803]

Just thinking aloud - I suspect the reason it feels different is that the thrust to weight ratio of a JNSQ rocket is the same as stock. One just needs more dV to do everything. However, this patch heavily nerfs TWR, which feels different to me.

I think I am correct about that? Some searching leads me to believe Kerbin has earth gravity in both stock and scaled forms.

Edit: forgot what the isp equation looked like.

Edited June 29 by shifty803

[theJesuit]

Yup that's right.  The idea is that in stock you enforce the need for a two stage to barely orbit.   My head balanced this with an apollo style Mün landing using 4 skipper first stage  in the tier2 140ton limit launchpad/VAB.  I have done it in the past.  Doable!

With the additonal delta-vee requirements in JNSQ, you need more thrust at sea level as the stock parts are more 'balanced' for the upscaled system.   So hence the lesser nerf.

[theJesuit]

*** Changelog 2.5 ***

This was actually done in July - so I think I know what I did!

* New engine designs for PALOX and EMERGE

    * PALOX is now an Engine rather than SRB style, restyled/shaped Terrier

    * EMERGE is now a reskinned DAWN

* benefits of the above mean engine plumes are a thing.

* Depreciated old engines designs with the multiple models and no engine plumes!

* Tidied up some code.