Jump to content

Rational Resources 3.0.2 [Sep 24, 2024]

JadeOfMaar

By JadeOfMaar
in KSP1 Mod Releases

 Share

Recommended Posts

Muetdhiver

Muetdhiver

Posted
Posted (edited)

I looked into the metalOre.

We get 3.134T out of the 1T of dry material.

Since 1u of metalOre weights 26kg, I have set values to get 5u or 130kg. I think it's fair since Hydrates should be rather metal poor.

Spoiler

        +OUTPUT_RESOURCE,0
        {
            @ResourceName = MetalOre
            @Ratio = 0.00074665// 4; nerfed from 3.134 T from 1T of dry rock to say 0.13T from 1T of dry rock.
        }

 

I see that the community ressource has metalic Ore and metal Ore. Is there a usefull difference here ? Because some modules like nertea's have the option to store "metalic ore" but not "metal ore" while yours can store "metal ore" but not "metalic ore".

I also get 3 "Start metal refining" toggles on the ConvertOTron.

 

Edited by Muetdhiver
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JadeOfMaar

JadeOfMaar

Posted
  • Author
Posted
On 4/18/2020 at 9:13 AM, Muetdhiver said:

I see that the community ressource has metalic Ore and metal Ore. Is there a usefull difference here ? Because some modules like nertea's have the option to store "metalic ore" but not "metal ore" while yours can store "metal ore" but not "metalic ore".

Useful difference? Yes. MetallicOre is used in the USI + Global Construction realm(s) but MetalOre is used in the Extraplanetary Launchpads (EL) + WBI + SimpleConstruction realms. The EL resources (MetalOre, Metal, RocketParts, ScrapMetal) were originally defined by EL and weren't part of CRP, but now they are in there, and EL has not changed over to using the CRP/USI equivalents (MetallicOre, Metals, MaterialKits + SpecializedParts). So preserving and providing for MetallicOre and MetalOre is important.

Nertea's station parts can hold MetalOre but when you install EL and none of these: (SimpleConstruction, MKS). The reason I don't provide MetallicOre storage is because USI users will likely have Configurable Containers or USI's tank pack installed, and I'm biased away from USI and towards EL.

On 4/18/2020 at 9:13 AM, Muetdhiver said:

I also get 3 "Start metal refining" toggles on the ConvertOTron.

That is an unfamiliar issue. I'll need to see your KSP.log, your GameData/ModuleManager.ConfigCache, and your MM logs ( KSPinstall/Logs/ModuleManager/ ).

Link to comment
Share on other sites
JadeOfMaar

JadeOfMaar

Posted
  • Author
Posted
28 minutes ago, dlrk said:

Are the RR scanners necessary when ScatSat is being used for resource scanning?

While you're doing SCANsat orbital scanning: no. But afterward, yes. They're necessary when you're scouting (for precision scanning) and you want to see the abundances of all resources at once while at the active vessel's location: whether its altitude in space or in atmo; its precise coordinates while landed; or at any point when splashed. The Sea Scanner only works when the active vessel is touching an ocean, and SCANsat only shows resources in the crust.

Spoiler

I don't think SCANsat handles oceans. Ocean ISRU isn't a thing in stock, and iirc ocean resources don't care about biome so you get the same percentages anywhere/everywhere, so there's no need for SCANsat to provide for that.

The RR scanners will show percentages of all configured resources immediately around you, whether landed, splashed, flying or orbiting. Shown below:

d35tr6l.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Muetdhiver

Muetdhiver

Posted
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

Useful difference? Yes. MetallicOre is used in the USI + Global Construction realm(s) but MetalOre is used in the Extraplanetary Launchpads (EL) + WBI + SimpleConstruction realms. The EL resources (MetalOre, Metal, RocketParts, ScrapMetal) were originally defined by EL and weren't part of CRP, but now they are in there, and EL has not changed over to using the CRP/USI equivalents (MetallicOre, Metals, MaterialKits + SpecializedParts). So preserving and providing for MetallicOre and MetalOre is important.

Nertea's station parts can hold MetalOre but when you install EL and none of these: (SimpleConstruction, MKS). The reason I don't provide MetallicOre storage is because USI users will likely have Configurable Containers or USI's tank pack installed, and I'm biased away from USI and towards EL.

That is an unfamiliar issue. I'll need to see your KSP.log, your GameData/ModuleManager.ConfigCache, and your MM logs ( KSPinstall/Logs/ModuleManager/ ).

Okay thanks. So different mods, different ressources.

There is something strange going on with the SSPX containers. I get rocket parts and metal but metallicOre instead of metalOre. Had a looksee in the SSPX files but could not see what goes wrong. Not a huge deal TBH, I'll just use the RR ressource container. Plus it looks good.

EL is a fantastic pack to be honest. Simple yet adds so much.

 

Edited by Muetdhiver
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JadeOfMaar

JadeOfMaar

Posted
  • Author
Posted
On 4/18/2020 at 9:13 AM, Muetdhiver said:

I also get 3 "Start metal refining" toggles on the ConvertOTron.

I found the cause of that. It's something that @zer0Kerbal (owner of SimpleConstruction) will need to clean up. What's happening is: RR adds two converters named Mono-<something> (so you have stock: Monoprop, and RR's MonoPropellant and MonoPropellant + Hydrogen) but SimpleConstruction copies any and all converters whose converter name starts with "Mono" so before SC activates, there are three converters named "Mono..." 

@PART[*ISRU*,Smelter*]:NEEDS[LaunchPad,SimpleConstruction]:FOR[SimpleConstruction]
{
	+MODULE[ModuleResourceConverter]:HAS[#ConverterName[Mono*]]
	{
		@ConverterName = Metal
		@StartActionName = Start Metal Refining

zer0kerbal's patch(es) (as there are more than one that does this) should target the converter's exact name: Monoprop 

+MODULE[ModuleResourceConverter]:HAS[#ConverterName[Mono*]] // change this
+MODULE[ModuleResourceConverter]:HAS[#ConverterName[Monoprop]] // to this
  
// also, the FlowMode key should get a % prefix on it. 
// The FlowMode key occurs twice in some of these nodes whn MM is finished with them.
// -->
+MODULE[ModuleResourceConverter]:HAS[#ConverterName[Monoprop]]:NEEDS[Karbonite,SimpleConstruction]
{
	// ...
	@OUTPUT_RESOURCE:HAS[#ResourceName[MonoPropellant]]
	{
		@ResourceName = Metal
		@Ratio /= 4
		%FlowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
	}
}

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
zer0Kerbal

zer0Kerbal

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

I found the cause of that. It's something that @zer0Kerbal (owner of SimpleConstruction) will need to clean up. What's happening is: RR adds two converters named Mono-<something> (so you have stock: Monoprop, and RR's MonoPropellant and MonoPropellant + Hydrogen) but SimpleConstruction copies any and all converters whose converter name starts with "Mono" so before SC activates, there are three converters named "Mono..." 


@PART[*ISRU*,Smelter*]:NEEDS[LaunchPad,SimpleConstruction]:FOR[SimpleConstruction]
{
	+MODULE[ModuleResourceConverter]:HAS[#ConverterName[Mono*]]
	{
		@ConverterName = Metal
		@StartActionName = Start Metal Refining

zer0kerbal's patch(es) (as there are more than one that does this) should target the converter's exact name: Monoprop 


+MODULE[ModuleResourceConverter]:HAS[#ConverterName[Mono*]] // change this
+MODULE[ModuleResourceConverter]:HAS[#ConverterName[Monoprop]] // to this
  
// also, the FlowMode key should get a % prefix on it. 
// The FlowMode key occurs twice in some of these nodes whn MM is finished with them.
// -->
+MODULE[ModuleResourceConverter]:HAS[#ConverterName[Monoprop]]:NEEDS[Karbonite,SimpleConstruction]
{
	// ...
	@OUTPUT_RESOURCE:HAS[#ResourceName[MonoPropellant]]
	{
		@ResourceName = Metal
		@Ratio /= 4
		%FlowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
	}
}

 

+1 :rep:

Thank you. Will push out (with other changes shortly)

On a different note: KeridanDynamics has been adopted. Do you/Would you like to add RR support to it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
JadeOfMaar

JadeOfMaar

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Muetdhiver said:

One other thing I noticed is that alumina spliting yields oxygen and "metals". However EL ressource is "metal" and there are no "metals" container.

I've been thinking of asking you to work out Aluminum, Metals and Metal (these three outputs, and assuming all are the same thing) for the Alumina Splitter. The Aluminum output is entirely a "What if" and is only really important in the edge case that someone wants to use an RR converter for their KSPI hybrid/reusable SRB (this can shutoff and restart but its minimum thrust is non-zero...something like 40%). I got to see a KSPI SRB in action in a very recent episode of a YouTube series.

Maybe I should reproduce that engine and include it in the RR Parts pack? It could go viral, possibly.

Edited by JadeOfMaar
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Muetdhiver

Muetdhiver

Posted
Posted

I will have a look into it. For now I have a massive mining rig to dock to my shipyard before sending a whole bunch of stuff to Eve :) But I'll get to it.

What is interesting about metal-LOx hybrid rockets is that you can use pretty much any metal. Aluminum, Silicon, Magnesium and Titanium have all ISP's > 250. Calcium is still > 200 and Iron is ~180.

Since KSP SRBs sit at ~220 ISP it would be neat if one could have an hybrid SRB that can be reloaded with Metal + Oxidizer. That makes going for the Alumina a nice ISRU route, without all the cryo stuff involved for HLOx.

One thing that would be cool for ISRU are microwave propulsion, it just uses water and loads of juice to get a nice 750 to 950 ISP.

IIRC there was an hybrid SRB model in the Unmanned before manned mod.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
JadeOfMaar

JadeOfMaar

Posted
  • Author
Posted

@Muetdhiver I got around to making those engine configs but I didn't look into Unmanned Before Manned. I took a guess with EC and thrust balance and kept things small since this kind of tech is described as being for microsats. (10kN is a lot, I bet, for microsats, but I'm anticipating folks will want to build a little big with this.)

KwMjaQB.png

I cloned the Flea and Hammer but no other solid rockets. Apparently resource flow mode can't be controlled within ModuleEngines so a player could cheat the SRM's tankage and spam Metal tanks for dV. :/ (Or use a Metal tank stack as an extended body for the SRM like some other mods allow, which is fine in that way.)

KOOxGnL.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Muetdhiver

Muetdhiver

Posted
Posted (edited)

Now, that's really cools stuff.

I can test the MET balance and crunch a few numbers but 10kN seems fine. I mean IRL dawn is about 0.1N for 2KW of power, and MET have about 10x the thrust but much lower ISP. As for the power use I have no idea, did you change the value from the vanilla dawn thruster ? Looking at the numbers it might be possible to build and SSTO rocket with a mix of HLOx engines and a MET cluster for the circularisation with near future capacitors. Tempting ^^

The way I see it, it sits in the same area as nuclear, but requires extra mass for the power supply. Fuel density is high, which is nice. IMO this all fairly balanced.

The hybrids engines look like offering a few interesting possibilities once coupled with EL. Mine alumina, build booster to send back up the processed ore. And so on.

 

Edited by Muetdhiver
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JadeOfMaar

JadeOfMaar

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Muetdhiver said:

I can test the MET balance and crunch a few numbers but 10kN seems fine. I mean IRL dawn is about 0.1N for 2KW of power, and MET have about 10x the thrust but much lower ISP. As for the power use I have no idea, did you change the value from the vanilla dawn thruster ?

The stock Dawn has 2kN so I gave this MET only 5x the thrust then. I changed the EC ratio but not by much. The Dawn's EC ratio is 1.8, mine is 2.6. If I do raise the MET's thrust to 20kN then it would definitely be appealing for heavy ion SSTO shenanigans. I just added the engines to Github so you can download their configs and try in-game. The Hybrid SRMs' Isp are simply 1.5x that of the stock versions.

Notes:

  • Their plumes will be broken as they currently depend on Plume Party and I did not deal with that.
  • The Tweakscale patch is updated to apply to them.
  • The Convert-O-Trons patch is updated to produce Metal and not Metals.

You may want to re-download/reinstall all of RR and RR Parts since there are several supporting changes scattered between them.

Metals is in CRP and has identical density with Metal (but has a lot more monetary value) so I think I should accommodate Metal fully (define it within RR so it never needs another mod present...) but now I feel really conflicted about them. EL's Metal costs 0.5 :funds:per unit and is equated to Iron. But what does CRP's Metals equate to? It costs 14.24 :funds:per unit. Such difference in value makes it hard to see one as a dummy equivalent of the other.

I've decided to not support Metals. But if you think I should fully accommodate it in addition to Metal, let me know. I can make the SRBs switch between them (and change Isp respectively) if necessary. We can assume that Metals is a rather highly reactive transition metal. (I've thought of Lithium as well, which is used by NF Propulsion's heavy ion engines.)

Edited by JadeOfMaar
Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...
JadeOfMaar

JadeOfMaar

Posted
  • Author
Posted

@matheuscassol2005 The scoop doesn't get its modules if KSP Interstellar is installed. I assumed that KSP Interstellar would have added its own harvester options onto it. If you can, go to GameData\RationalResourcesParts\CRP\Intake.cfg and delete exactly and only this from the two places where it occurs: 

,!WarpPlugin

so that the lines: 

// stop looking like this
@PART[???]:NEEDS[CommunityResourcePack,!WarpPlugin]
  
// start looking like this
@PART[???]:NEEDS[CommunityResourcePack]

Once you've done that you'll get to use not only that scoop but you get extra atmosphere options for this stock intake too, the "XM-G50"

XMG50RadialAirIntake.png

Finally, to install the extras, go into the download zip, take the configs you want from the Extras folder, and put them anywhere in GameData. It's that simple.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Clamp-o-Tron

Clamp-o-Tron

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

I'm curious to what these are. Care to list them?

DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME. DO NOT PLAY ALL THESE PLANET PACKS TOGETHER UNLESS YOU HAVE 32 GB RAM (still has performance issues)

-- OPM (config already exists)

--New Horizons

-- Ascleipus

--Arkas

--Other worlds reboot

--the world beyond

--seven worlds of SLIPPIST-1

--whirligig world

--event horizon

--and Interstellar Consortium to hold it all together.

Yeah- that's about 250 celestial bodies. I'm gonna have a lot of work to do on this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
JadeOfMaar

JadeOfMaar

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

iQlK6VY.jpg

Release 1.5.0

DOWNLOAD :: GitHub :: SpaceDock

  • Added hybrid SRMs (clones of the Flea and Hammer). They're refillable, restart-able, tweakscale-able and throttle-able (down to 40%) like ones in KSP Interstellar.
  • Added LqdDeuterium presence.
  • Added Water MET (Microwave ElectroThermal Thruster, clone of Dawn ion engine).
  • Allowed scoop patches to run when KSPI installed.
  • Updated Alumina Splitter and Ore tank types concerning their needs.
  • Updated Hydrates Splitter outputs more, thanks to @Muetdhiver.
  • Updated other conversion chains using newly available calculators.

 

Edited by JadeOfMaar
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...