Rational Resources 3.0.2 [Sep 24, 2024]

[FreeThinker]

On 6/11/2019 at 7:35 PM, JadeOfMaar said:

I've decided to rename this mod from "Realistic Resources." There's a certain high expectation, and pressure, that comes with any use of the word "realism" in the name or description of a mod. This is something I want to avoid, personally.

Yes I understand your thinking. You want to create something in Between Stock and RO/KSPI resourse management. Just Make sure you keep those escapes available (~Tag[*] ) and I can build on top of Rational Resources general template structure which is the true strength of this mod

16 minutes ago, JadeOfMaar said:

Sure, I'll make an airless moon template. Exosphere templates and likely a re-tune of the existing converter options are the bulk of the next release.

Cool notice that KSPIE atmosphere also use a kind of template system. BAsicly it create a atmospheric composition based on the planet/moon characteristics (like size, atmosphere density, temperature, etc). Perhap its an idea to do something similar for RationlaResources using some script (like PERL) which would automaticly clasify a unknown planet/moon on some characteristics. An example how to do this by studying.

 

Edited June 13, 2019 by FreeThinker

[FreeThinker]

On 5/30/2019 at 6:04 PM, JadeOfMaar said:

Active CRP Resources

• Surface and Atmosphere
  Ammonia, CarbonDioxide, ExoticMinerals, Gypsum, LqdHe3, Hydrates, Hydrogen, MetalOre, Methane, Minerals, Nitrogen, Ore, Oxygen, RareMetals, Rock, Silicates, Substrate, Uraninite, Water.
• Ocean
  LqdAmmonia, LqdCO2, LqdMethane, LqdNitrogen, LqdOxygen, Water.
• Star
  Antimatter, Karborundum, LqdHe3, Hydrogen, LqdDeuterium.

 

If you intend to allow resource collection of Hydrogen, Nitrogen, Oxygen, please also use  Helium3 and Deuterium instead of LqdHe3 and LqdDeuterium, which is plain ugly

Edited June 13, 2019 by FreeThinker

[SevenOfCarina]

You've done some fantastic work with this mod, @JadeOfMaar, but I'd like to suggest that you retain your definition of Oxidizer as LOX. While Kerbalism's take is interesting, it doesn't make much sense, and is incorrect from a scientific perspective. Methane + HTP tends to max out at about ~330s of specific impulse, while stock fuels can apparently reach 380s. Incidentally, this meshes in well with methalox specific impulse. There's also the added issue that methane is nearly as deep a cryogen as oxygen, and it's actually harder to insulate a tank effectively when you have two chemicals with wildly different storage temperatures in close proximity.

Edited June 14, 2019 by SevenOfCarina

[FreeThinker]

1 hour ago, SevenOfCarina said:

. Incidentally, this meshes in well with methalox specific impulse. There's also the added issue that methane is a deeper cryogen than oxygen, and it's actually harder to insulate a tank effectively when you have two chemicals with wildly different storage temperatures in close proximity.

You got it all backward. One of the often mentioned advantages of Metane is that is Cryo temperature is much closer to LqdOxygen than LqdHydrogen or Kerosine, making storage and usage easier. Its one of the reason Methane is now considered as an alternive to Hydrogen or Kerosine

Edited June 13, 2019 by FreeThinker

[SevenOfCarina]

 

18 hours ago, FreeThinker said:

You got it all backward. One of the often mentioned advantages of Metane is that is Cryo temperature is much closer to LqdOxygen than LqdHydrogen or Kerosine, making storage and usage easier. Its one of the reason Methane is now considered as an alternive to Hydrogen or Kerosine

You're agreeing with me?

Edited June 14, 2019 by SevenOfCarina

[juanml82]

For some reason, with this mod installed, Scansat only shows karbonite in its maps, but no other resource. Also, is there a reason the CO2 Nerv is only available with restock installed? I'm not particularly interested in that mod, but I am in this one

[JadeOfMaar]

On 6/16/2019 at 6:54 PM, juanml82 said:

For some reason, with this mod installed, Scansat only shows karbonite in its maps, but no other resource. Also, is there a reason the CO2 Nerv is only available with restock installed? I'm not particularly interested in that mod, but I am in this one

I have no idea why SCANsat misbehaves. I have a config that changs SCANsat but it's not active. It's a .txt file and it shouldn't be in the download. The reason for CO2 NERV needing Restock is because ReStock changes the NERV (from ModuleEngines) to use ModuleEnginesFX which is used with the multi-mode engine module. I've never tested whether ModuleEngines is usable with multi-mode engine. It's also none-too usable until I settle on how to provide tanks without conflicting with mods fuel switching mods that change the stock tanks.

[juanml82]

I'm checking the Mun and Minmus resources. Is it all possible to create fuel at either moon without retorting to ore or karbonite (ie, with the resources from this mod)? It looks like it's not, and that would cut a stock gameplay element - refueling bases at the Mun or Minmus. And with mods, it cuts back on offworld manufacturing - there would be no point in building rockets at the Mun or Minmus if you can't fuel them.

[JadeOfMaar]

@juanml82 I hadn't thought hard enough on that actually. Oxygen is quite abundant for making Oxidizer. Hydrates are abundant, from which you can get Water and make Hydrolox...I haven't released an ISRU chain to handle Hydrates. Unfortunately I haven't given Mun any direct sources of Water yet, with which Hydrolox could be made more easily. Sorry about that. I'll include that in the next update.

Edited June 18, 2019 by JadeOfMaar

[CoriW]

Would this be compatible with Far Future technologies? Notably I've noticed that in Rational Resources Hydrogen is named "Hydrogen" where as in FFT it's named "LqdHydrogen" .. I mean it's probably trivial for me to write some patches if needed to correct the issue on my end but I figured I'd ask here anyways. (I will also note that FFT has LqdHe3 and LqdDeuterium, which are included in this mod, which is a plus)

 

[JadeOfMaar]

@CoriW I've been working at replacing all the ambient "liquid" gas resources with the gas/ non-liquid forms for consistency™ and adding an ISRU step (a cryogenic converter) to produce the familiar liquid form from the gas input. Helium (most likely) and Deuterium are next to be made non-liquid actually. Arguably I'm breaking FFT compatibility, meanwhile I'm still providing for FFT. Hydrogen, Helium, Deuterium and Antimatter will still be easily placed/place-able at stars and gas giants.

[CoriW]

5 minutes ago, JadeOfMaar said:

@CoriW I've been working at replacing all the ambient "liquid" gas resources with the gas/ non-liquid forms for consistency™ and adding an ISRU step (a cryogenic converter) to produce the familiar liquid form from the gas input. Helium (most likely) and Deuterium are next to be made non-liquid actually. Arguably I'm breaking FFT compatibility, meanwhile I'm still providing for FFT. Hydrogen, Helium, Deuterium and Antimatter will still be easily placed/place-able at stars and gas giants.

Ah I see, given the ISRU method still makes those resources available then that's not an issue at all for me. The only other part concerning compatibility I'm wondering about are the FFT harvesters, for example the atmosphere scoop which harvests "LqdHydrogen" from the atmosphere. Would my best bet be to simply MM patch the harvest resource to "Hydrogen"?

Edited June 19, 2019 by CoriW
Typo

[JadeOfMaar]

Just now, CoriW said:

Would my best bet be to simply MM patch the harvest resource to "Hydrogen"?

Yep.

[CoriW]

1 minute ago, JadeOfMaar said:

Yep.

Okay, thanks! That'll give me something to do tomorrow as I'm still waiting on Kopernicus to update to 1.7.2 and Kerbalism to update to 3.0.3 (for the planner time fixes while in use with JNSQ)

I'll likely go through all of my 150+ mods and ensure everything else seems compatible as well .. Anything I find I'll write up some MM patches for. Will probably post them here if you don't mind, just in case anyone else wants / needs them.

[CoriW]

Here's that config for FFT, currently going through the process of determining which mods may need patches and which do not.. Surprisingly out of all of my mods I'd appearing most of them will function just fine without any patches at all. Though I may patch some ISRU converters to personal taste. For now though I think I'll just have to wait until some mods update so I can actually start playing the game, then I'll patch stuff as I notice it in game. It's also a bit easier that way than just aimlessly searching through config files trying to determine if something will work right or not.

@PART[atmosphere-scoop-01,particle-scoop-01]:AFTER[FarFutureTechnologies]
{
    @MODULE[ModuleResourceHarvester]:HAS[#ResourceName[LqdHydrogen]]
    {
        @ResourceName = Hydrogen
    }
}

@PART[imaging-spectrometer-01]:AFTER[FarFutureTechnologies]
{
    @MODULE[ModuleProfilingScanner]
    {
        @PROFILEABLERESOURCE:HAS[#resourceName[LqdHydrogen]]
        {
            @ResourceName = Hydrogen
        }
    }
}
	

That should be it for the FFT patch as far as I'm aware. Though I've yet to actually ever play a career to the point of reaching the FFT tech.. lol.

Edited June 19, 2019 by CoriW

[jefferyharrell]

22 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

@CoriW Helium (most likely) and Deuterium are next to be made non-liquid actually.

For what it's worth, deuterium probably shouldn't be naturally occurring and should instead be something you refine from hydrogen. In real life, something like 1 in 6500 atoms of hydrogen is deuterium. Separating deuterium from hydrogen is a known process. (I mean, I couldn't do it, but somebody could.) The fraction could be tweaked for gameplay reasons, though I don't actually know what people use deuterium for in the game. It must be part of a mod I've never used or something.

[Nightside]

46 minutes ago, jefferyharrell said:

For what it's worth, deuterium probably shouldn't be naturally occurring and should instead be something you refine from hydrogen. In real life, something like 1 in 6500 atoms of hydrogen is deuterium. Separating deuterium from hydrogen is a known process. (I mean, I couldn't do it, but somebody could.) The fraction could be tweaked for gameplay reasons, though I don't actually know what people use deuterium for in the game. It must be part of a mod I've never used or something.

Fusion drives and reactors in FarFutureTech

[JadeOfMaar]

Pre-release 0.8.6

Download at GitHub

Please delete Realistic Resources before installing, if you somehow still have it

• Added CarbonDioxide and Hydrates splitters to ISRU.
  • These and other ISRU chains pending balance pass.
• Added Star exo band templates (Population 1 ~ 3) with decreasing amounts of most things but Hydrogen and Helium.
• Added Water to Mun and Minmus polar biomes.
• Added MetalOre to stock Drill-O-Matics.
• Added small MetalOre presence to Minmus (purely for play-ability) to help with base-building.
• Change SimpleConstruction ISRU to consume MetalOre (untested).
• Fixed Ore tank patch to only active if CRP present.
• Fixed intake harvester patch to only active if CRP present.
• Enabled several non-MKS resources to appear in SCANsat resource overlay selection.

SCANsat populated, no longer just with MKS stuff.

Water in JNSQ Mun's poles (more Water in stock Mun's poles/polar craters)

Oxygen in Minmus (and Mun). Currently it can only be found in the crust of Rock-Ice class worlds and no other. I might adjust that later on.

Edited June 20, 2019 by JadeOfMaar

[jefferyharrell]

3 hours ago, Nightside said:

Fusion drives and reactors in FarFutureTech

Nertea's Far Future? I had no idea that was even beyond the concept stage.

[Nightside]

Just now, jefferyharrell said:

Nertea's Far Future? I had no idea that was even beyond the concept stage.

There is a lot of cool stuff already, It is available on his GitHub. You are in for a treat.

[TheKurgan]

On 6/19/2019 at 11:59 PM, JadeOfMaar said:

Change SimpleConstruction ISRU to consume MetalOre (untested).

COOL!

Will test tonight!

[TheKurgan]

There is nothing that can store MetalOre... it isn't showing up in the tank options.

Edited June 22, 2019 by TheKurgan

[TheKurgan]

Sigh...

@JadeOfMaar This is getting very complicated.

Here is the ISRU patch in SimpleConstruction:

Spoiler

@PART[*ISRU*]
{
    +MODULE[ModuleResourceConverter]:HAS[#ConverterName[Mono*]]
    {
        @ConverterName = Metal
        @StartActionName = Start Metal Refining
        @StopActionName = Stop Metal Refining
        @INPUT_RESOURCE:HAS[#ResourceName[ElectricCharge]]
        {
            @Ratio *= 2
        }
        @OUTPUT_RESOURCE:HAS[#ResourceName[MonoPropellant]]
        {
            @ResourceName = Metal
            @Ratio /= 4
            FlowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
        }
    }
}

And the part of the patch you put into RationalResources:

Spoiler

@PART[ISRU,MiniISRU]:AFTER[SimpleConstruction]
{
    @MODULE[ModuleResourceConverter]:HAS[#ConverterName[Metal]]
    {
        @INPUT_RESOURCE,0
        {
            @ResourceName = MetalOre
        }
    }
}

So the SC patch uses the MonoPropellant converter as a template, and just doubles the EC... so to make Metal, the converter uses EC, Ore... So I am unsure what your patch actually does.

But I still have nothing that can hold MetalOre... 

Edited June 22, 2019 by TheKurgan

[Stone Blue]

Just FYI, I think Jade might be at a modder's rehab facility vacation resort for a few days this weekend...
So we might not hear from him till next week.

Hope youre enjoying the respit, @JadeOfMaar ... You've earned a well-deserved, nice little vacay from KSP...

[TheKurgan]

I cannot find an actual resource definition for "MetalOre" anywhere...

NOTHING I have installed, JNSQ, RationalResources, CRP, SimpleConstruction, nothing creates a resource called MetalOre.

Edited June 22, 2019 by TheKurgan