KSP 2 Multiplayer Discussion Thread

[Lettuce]

8 minutes ago, Vl3d said:

Fine, then set your journey maneuver nodes and target while you're on the launch pad. Auto-warp to the correct time window while on the ground - but outside of multiplayer. Launch for a direct encounter. You can cancel (revert to launch) to return to multiplayer.

At this point you've dropped so many parts of your original proposal that its becoming regular time warp the only time I'm seeing that you can't use timewarp in this system with all of the amendments you've made is essentially while landing which is a 4 minute inconvenience when parachuting on Kerbin for the sake of immersion. I'm not trying to bash you so I apologize if that's how this post comes off but I hope you can see why so many players took issue with your original proposal.

[Vl3d]

My initial proposal was to have a real-time MMO game. I have not compromised on this. Of course there are workarounds to give solutions to your comments and critiques.

It's becoming more & more clear that a hybrid system is the way to go with syncing to the regional / celestial body / target real-time bubble instead of syncing to a certain players time bubble.

I'm advocating giving sync configuration control to the server instead of the player having time travel prerogatives.

This was my original idea, it has not changed.

@t_vQueued actions recorded while warping that are then replayed for other players are ok only if you leave the bubble for good and can't return to meet yourself and break causality.

Edited April 11, 2022 by Vl3d

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Vl3d said:

I have not compromised on this.

You contraddicted yourself so many times that I think that "your proposal" is really at least a couple of different ones for each page of this discussion.

You started from "no timewarp within a SOI" and now you're replying to me with a "Easy, you just timewarp"

[Vl3d]

I've really put in the effort to explain the system. @t_vgets it. I'll update the Q&A with the new ideas and let's leave it at that for posterity. I hope we get massive real-time multiplayer. Very curious about the KSP2 teams technical decisions.

Edited April 11, 2022 by Vl3d

[Pthigrivi]

Okay, without piling on I think I can help out here. What @Vl3d is after is being able to see in real time what a bunch of other players around the world are doing around Kerbin, Duna, other systems, etc. Because he has it blocked off into separate agencies (smart) you aren't actually physically interacting with any of these stations and bases and vessels anyway, so there's no real threat of temporal paradox, which means you don't actually have to restrict time warp at all. In fact, you don't need to synch with them either. You can just preserve your and your agencies self-consistent timeline unto itself, never see big shifts in your calendar or in the positions of planets around you. When you arrive close to a new planet nothing changes for you, you can just load the positional tracks and models within visual range of other players as they are relative to the host planet. Since you're not interacting with them it doesn't matter that when they zoom out in map mode they see all the other planets in different places. 

[t_v]

I do get it even if I disagree with it. 
 

The core of the solution is a real time “true time”. Time warp and which times it is restricted is secondary, but what remains constant is what time players can be in during normal operations. Other solutions allow you to be at any “true time” for each player while this one has one “true time” per server-defined bubble. This is what is meant by real time. 
 

1 minute ago, Pthigrivi said:

When you arrive close to a new planet nothing changes for you, you can just load the positional tracks and models within visual range of other players as they are relative to the host planet. Since you're not interacting with them it doesn't matter that when they zoom out in map mode they see all the other planets in different places. 

Pretty much, but on top of that everyone sees the planets in the same positions, even if it is just visually (because you can warp to a transfer window). This is a lot of effort for a little bit of shared experience between players, but for some I guess it is worth it. 

[Vl3d]

It's worth it because you get to see the ending of this in-game (and we all build and play in the same universe together and share crafts):

 

[Bej Kerman]

15 hours ago, Vl3d said:

It feels like cheating, breaks mini-games.

It isn't cheating at all, though, and there's no reason to be strict. 

38 minutes ago, Vl3d said:

It's worth it because you get to see the ending of this in-game (and we all build and play in the same universe together and share crafts):

You can't do that with the same system Luna Multiplayer uses? Of course you can. DMP and LMP already let you build and play and share crafts without the burdens introduced by having to all be in-sync. You don't need to sacrifice timewarp.

Either way, no amount of talking is going to convince me that making this, just this, possible (even though it already is with timewarp) is worth sacrificing timewarp.

14 hours ago, DwightLee said:

when you Resync, someone is going to move in time and space...

When you resync, your planets will move but no-one else's should.

Edited April 11, 2022 by Bej Kerman

[DwightLee]

1 hour ago, Bej Kerman said:

 

When you resync, your planets will move but no-one else's should.

Yes, planets will move, stations will move, craft will move anything that orbits over time will move. I would prefer a solution that does not have that issue.

[Bej Kerman]

11 minutes ago, DwightLee said:

1 hour ago, Bej Kerman said:

When you resync, your planets will move but no-one else's should.

Yes, planets will move, stations will move, craft will move anything that orbits over time will move. I would prefer a solution that does not have that issue.

This isn't an issue in the first place. The planets only move for you. Removing timewarp to fix this (non-existent) "issue" just leads to the much, much larger issue of there being no timewarp.

[Vl3d]

[DwightLee]

1 hour ago, Bej Kerman said:

This isn't an issue in the first place. The planets only move for you. Removing timewarp to fix this (non-existent) "issue" just leads to the much, much larger issue of there being no timewarp.

Planets, stations, craft moving when you re-sync is indeed an issue if you do any planning ahead with your space program.

[Bej Kerman]

22 minutes ago, DwightLee said:

2 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

This isn't an issue in the first place. The planets only move for you. Removing timewarp to fix this (non-existent) "issue" just leads to the much, much larger issue of there being no timewarp.

Planets, stations, craft moving when you re-sync is indeed an issue if you do any planning ahead with your space program.

No it isn't.

32 minutes ago, Vl3d said:

???

[t_v]

34 minutes ago, DwightLee said:

Planets, stations, craft moving when you re-sync is indeed an issue if you do any planning ahead with your space program.

The way people play multiplayer is that if they have something planned, they wait to re-sync until they don’t have anything planned any more, or if they are the farthest ahead, others will sync to them. 

[DwightLee]

52 minutes ago, t_v said:

The way people play multiplayer is that if they have something planned, they wait to re-sync until they don’t have anything planned any more, or if they are the farthest ahead, others will sync to them. 

with all my craft? it isnt like I am running one mission at a time

[Bej Kerman]

4 minutes ago, DwightLee said:

56 minutes ago, t_v said:

The way people play multiplayer is that if they have something planned, they wait to re-sync until they don’t have anything planned any more, or if they are the farthest ahead, others will sync to them. 

with all my craft? it isnt like I am running one mission at a time

What's stopping you from running several missions at a time?

[t_v]

19 minutes ago, DwightLee said:

with all my craft? it isnt like I am running one mission at a time

Yep, which is why I tend to run only one or two missions at a time when in multiplayer. Also, if a craft is on a long transfer, it is fine to warp ahead as long as it fits within the transfer. 

[DwightLee]

36 minutes ago, t_v said:

Yep, which is why I tend to run only one or two missions at a time when in multiplayer. Also, if a craft is on a long transfer, it is fine to warp ahead as long as it fits within the transfer. 

early game yeah, later when I have things heading to stations, and a large craft heading out to Jool, and in KSP2 perhaps a probe heading to another star system, and poof time and planet positions suddenly shift? That would be a nightmare. does resyncing stop when a maneuvering alarm goes off?

[Bej Kerman]

3 minutes ago, DwightLee said:

and in KSP2 perhaps a probe heading to another star system, and poof time and planet positions suddenly shift?

That doesn't happen.

[DwightLee]

well I can say I strongly prefer what  Pthigrivi    proposed, a system that does not need resyncing, where you control your own time warps and how you move though time without resynciing, Not that any of us have a vote, we dont, the devs will implement what they decide to.      

[Bej Kerman]

Just now, DwightLee said:

well I can say I strongly prefer what  Pthigrivi    proposed, a system that does not need resyncing, where you control your own time warps and how you move though time without resynciing, Not that any of us have a vote, we dont, the devs will implement what they decide to.      

Then how do you resync?

[DwightLee]

4 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

Then how do you resync?

You dont... if you arrive ahead of someone else, then they can decide ( or not ) to warp to the time you are at, and they might pause to work a maneuver when they do they have total control of their time. There are problems with that system, that will have to be worked out like any system, but I like it better than others mentioned here. 

[Bej Kerman]

6 minutes ago, DwightLee said:

12 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

Then how do you resync?

You dont... if you arrive ahead of someone else, then they can decide ( or not ) to warp to the time you are at

In other words, sync.

[DwightLee]

at your own speed, with stops along the way if you like, to maneuver other ships, exactly the same way you play Kerbal solo

[Pthigrivi]

1 hour ago, DwightLee said:

well I can say I strongly prefer what  Pthigrivi    proposed, a system that does not need resyncing, where you control your own time warps and how you move though time without resynciing, Not that any of us have a vote, we dont, the devs will implement what they decide to.      

Not exactly mine, just some tweaks a few people came up with to Luna like 10 pages ago.  My original solution was  a bit overcomplicated. 



And I'll say the unthinkable: of all the discussed KSP2 components the one I'd be least sad about being held back till a post-release update would be multiplayer. I'd be happy to see them get the main game tight as a drum before introducing any of this. 

Edited April 11, 2022 by Pthigrivi