RP-1 Realistic Progression One for KSP 1.12.3

[todi]

On 12/20/2019 at 4:37 PM, Nich said:

Ya I am not sure I like how the early career is structured.  I have played a couple of play through and I think the best start has 100-150 points in the VAB with a level 4-5 pad before investing anything in science.  With 20 points in the VAB I was making 7k every 15 days on sounding rockets or about 170k a year. I ran into pad weight limits so I started investing in science which was a mistake.  I should have kept investing in the VAB and pad until I am making 340t rocket in a day.  This should be enough to fling stuff at the moon with basic tech.  And it is a sufficient build rate that I can do pretty much anything I want (Man base for the Moon or Mars) with about a month of build time.

That sounds... painful. Most people try to get out of the sounding rocket era as fast as possible. What year are you in and how many sounding rockets have you launched?

[RoboRay]

I think there's a designed-in assumption that people will want to have fun through exploration.  Designing around eliminating possibilities for min-max grinding tends to negatively impact people who play to have fun rather than to optimize production.

Edited December 24, 2019 by RoboRay

[nablabla]

Hi, I just tried out RP-1 using this guide to install everything https://github.com/KSP-RO/RP-0/wiki/RO-&-RP-1-Installation-for-1.7.3

seems to work fine. But there is one thing I can not understand. It suggests to go for Kerbalism instead of TAC, so i gave it a shot. But in Kerbalism the science experiments all take time. which is a good idea for manned missions and stuff. BUT now i want to get past the sounding rockets era. But I can not get any science because telemetry, baro and thermometer takes 5~10min and restarts if situation changes. No sounding rocket is in the air for that long, even with parachutes, and if it was it changes the situation all the time and that is quite annoying . How about changing these simple experiments like reading a temp or pressure to something more like 5~10 seconds?

I then deinstalled Kerbalism and added TAC life support (new savegame), but now the science of baro and thermometer is transferred and it says "DONE" but the science is never added to my pool and the experiments are still as if they were never done

Edited December 26, 2019 by nablabla

[Pehvbot]

4 hours ago, nablabla said:

Hi, I just tried out RP-1 using this guide to install everything https://github.com/KSP-RO/RP-0/wiki/RO-&-RP-1-Installation-for-1.7.3

seems to work fine. But there is one thing I can not understand. It suggests to go for Kerbalism instead of TAC, so i gave it a shot. But in Kerbalism the science experiments all take time. which is a good idea for manned missions and stuff. BUT now i want to get past the sounding rockets era. But I can not get any science because telemetry, baro and thermometer takes 5~10min and restarts if situation changes. No sounding rocket is in the air for that long, even with parachutes, and if it was it changes the situation all the time and that is quite annoying . How about changing these simple experiments like reading a temp or pressure to something more like 5~10 seconds?

I then deinstalled Kerbalism and added TAC life support (new savegame), but now the science of baro and thermometer is transferred and it says "DONE" but the science is never added to my pool and the experiments are still as if they were never done

Kerbalism should just pick up science experiments from their previous amount.  It takes a few flights to get full science but that's definitely a feature not a bug.  Make sure you have 3.2 since that has a much better science module.  If it's not picking things up at the point you left off, there may be something wrong with the install or it might be an older KerbalismConfig folder.  Are you using this one?: https://github.com/Standecco/ROKerbalism

[ResonantWaves]

Some sort of error with RP-1- SXTContinued got a 403 error and failed. RSS and RO installed fine, but RP-1 throws up problem after problem on 1.2.2, 1.3.1, 1.6.1 and 1.7.3. It's enough to make a guy scream! 

Will attach files when I get them: just wondered if this was a common issue with an easy fix.

[AVaughan]

2 hours ago, ResonantWaves said:

Some sort of error with RP-1- SXTContinued got a 403 error and failed. RSS and RO installed fine, but RP-1 throws up problem after problem on 1.2.2, 1.3.1, 1.6.1 and 1.7.3. It's enough to make a guy scream! 

Will attach files when I get them: just wondered if this was a common issue with an easy fix.

Follow the guide.  (And I mean really follow it).

https://github.com/KSP-RO/RP-0/wiki/RO-&-RP-1-Installation-for-1.7.3

[nepphhh]

@Nich@RoboRay If you're really focused on exploration but still want a tech tree, you can always a) disable KCT or b) cheat yourself enough funds to get a ton of KCT points.

The new early game actually adheres to the Realistic part of the "Realistic Progression One" title. Kinda. Better than RP0!

[ResonantWaves]

20 hours ago, AVaughan said:

Follow the guide.  (And I mean really follow it).

https://github.com/KSP-RO/RP-0/wiki/RO-&-RP-1-Installation-for-1.7.3

That was the guide I followed.. unfortunately SXT Continued's status as a required mod makes CKAN install difficult, so will try manual download and extract

 

[AVaughan]

@ResonantWaves  Care to describe what the actual issue is with SXTcontinued?

I built a new 1.7.3 install 2 weeks ago.  The only issue I had was with installing the wrong version of proc parts (because I didn't pay enough attention to the guide).

Since then I've seen people complaining that they can't get RO/RP-1 to install, so today I built another new install.  That installed without issue and loads fine.  (I only went as far as installing the required mod, I didn't bother with the optional mods, since I'm not planning to actually play this install).

[nepphhh]

Looks like the issue is that Spacedock is down again. SXT is hosted there and CKAN doesn't mirror it. I just rewrote the 1.7.3 instructions to get around the problem. Much more work but doesn't depend on Spacedock. Hopefully it's back soon.

[mwg_test]

 did not find answer for simple quetion.
I am planning for lunar mission. (KSP 1.7.3, RO+RP-1 were downloaded 30 dec 2019).
A have as returnable capsule Mk1-3 pod, and lander capsule Mk2 lander can. But in trainig courses... no such capsule training. I think Mk2LanderCabin-V2 is Mk2 lander can, but what is name for mk1-3 command pod? and where do i need to look to find wich capsule name i need to train kerbonauts?
Here i found "partname". but no couse for it

Spoiler

 

[nepphhh]

8 hours ago, mwg_test said:

what is name for mk1-3 command pod?

I believe it's the Apollo training. Displaying what training group a part is in would be an excellent UX improvement.

Edited January 5, 2020 by nepphhh

[HebaruSan]

On 1/1/2020 at 3:15 PM, nepphhh said:

SXT is hosted there and CKAN doesn't mirror it.

Thanks for pointing this out, should be fixed now.

[Nich]

On 12/24/2019 at 1:58 AM, todi said:

That sounds... painful. Most people try to get out of the sounding rocket era as fast as possible. What year are you in and how many sounding rockets have you launched?

I Have launched about 150 sounding rockets so far in my current 1.7.3 play through.

On 12/24/2019 at 7:18 AM, RoboRay said:

I think there's a designed-in assumption that people will want to have fun through exploration.  Designing around eliminating possibilities for min-max grinding tends to negatively impact people who play to have fun rather than to optimize production.

So I had to re-read what you said 4 times before it really stuck and I realized we are saying the same thing. Below is what I had but I am not sure how to fix it while making it still enjoyable/playable

     "I hate to say it but rocket scientist love to optimize.  I think there are several factors at play here. First build rate needs to decay.  You can only throw so much money at the problem before you get diminishing returns.  To cancel this out rockets are an exponential problem thus contracts need to pay out exponentially.  As is the beginning contracts pay way too much and the more difficult contracts don't pay enough.  If you adjust this you create a wall right at beginning that some people will never be able to overcome.  i.e imagine if starting contracts only paid 200 funds.  Secondly cheap rockets are penalized.  Why does my 1 kerdit sounding rockets core take 50 days to build but my 80 kerdit rocket only takes 64 days to build?  This overhead really takes away any advantage you get from making cheap rockets.  Finally resuablilty needs to be nerfed.  I would suggest reducing the percentage complete based off the distance recovered % and making fuel require % complete to refill."

     I have also made things even worse on my self.  I designed a reusable 1 stage aerobe that can complete the 45-80 km sounding rocket low contract.  It only nets me 3-5k depending on the altitude however it only takes me about 8 hours between launches.  That is 4.2 million per year.  I have spent the first 4 months of my game launching this and I have 20 points in the VAB so far.  150 launches and I have had only 1 failure that resulted in a total loss of the vehicle.  I am able to grow my fleet of these by about .2 per month meaning that my income stream would grow infintly.  However I cant imagine doing this for an entire year so I think I am going to do what you suggested and just give myself 100k a month and start working on a recoverable sounding rocket down range and see how profitable that is.

I would love to see funding type contracts.  Requires a new rocket design and pays very little funds however the payout is calculated based on the build rate, cost of the rocket, and the profit and pays out funds/second when the VAB is idol.

[AVaughan]

@Nich  you should always optimise for fun over everything else.  Your time is too valuable for anything else.  Launching the same rocket 150 times doesn't sound like my idea of fun.

 

My current game is a Neph quarterly budgets game.  NQB reworks a lot of the early game and contracts, and moves funding into quarterly budgets, so I'm not sure what the current standard rp-1 starting contracts look like, but in NQB I haven't seen any infinitely repeatable contracts.   I guess I'm probably up to around 60 actual missions.  Counting Krash sims for rocket design and testing probably I have probably done around 150 "launches". 

For me the year was 1960 last time I checked, and I have done lunar impact and (unmanned) lunar orbit contracts.  NQB reworks kct upgrades, but I have around 100 kct points in the VAB (and 2 build rates) and over 200 kct points in RnD (I think that is roughly equivalent to around 50 and 100 kct points in a standard RP-1 game).  My quarterly income is 350,000. 

I've just designed (not yet test flown) a new 125 ton launcher that can throw about 500 kg TLI, and around 350-400kg to Mars/Venus (once I get Mars/Venus capable antennas) or put about 3000kg in LEO.  KCT says build time for will be around 84 days (Lunar/Mars/Venus version, with the transfer stage, but with 500kg of lead as a mass simulator instead of an actual probe), which with 2 build queues works out to a launch roughly every 45 days once I add a payload.

To me getting orbital is much more fun than grinding 100s sounding rockets .

 

[Xt007]

In my current save I started with 500,000 funds.  Logic being in the 50s and 60s US budget for space exploration was effectively unlimited once the space race gained political momentum.  Before first launch purchased kct points to start with 4 in r&d and 4 in Vab.  From then on every time I earn a kct point through science I purchase and put an additional point in vab and r&d.  Resulting in a progression I find more enjoyable to play.

[nepphhh]

On 1/6/2020 at 12:16 PM, Nich said:

I have also made things even worse on my self.  I designed a reusable 1 stage aerobe that can complete the 45-80 km sounding rocket low contract.  It only nets me 3-5k depending on the altitude however it only takes me about 8 hours between launches.  That is 4.2 million per year.

 

How are you doing that? Recovery to the VAB isn't unlocked until shuttle era tech. There's no way you should be able to relaunch the same rocket every eight hours.

[Nich]

@nepphhhInteresting I can recover to the SPH from anywhere.  From there I can launch to the runway and recover to the VAB.  Although this rocket it is small enough that I can launch it from the Runway anyways.

[siimav]

1 hour ago, Nich said:

@nepphhhInteresting I can recover to the SPH from anywhere.  From there I can launch to the runway and recover to the VAB.  Although this rocket it is small enough that I can launch it from the Runway anyways.

You're not supposed to launch rockets from the runway. VAB is for rockets and runway is for planes. Unfortunately there isn't much we can do to enforce that.

Recovering into the SPH is allowed because planes should be capable of being reflown without rebuilding or refurbishing them. None of the sounding rockets or orbital-grade hardware saw reuse before the Space Shuttle entered service during the 1980s. There are only a couple of exceptions to that rule and even these were suborbital flights.

[nepphhh]

47 minutes ago, siimav said:

You're not supposed to launch rockets from the runway. VAB is for rockets and runway is for planes. Unfortunately there isn't much we can do to enforce that.

Recovering into the SPH is allowed because planes should be capable of being reflown without rebuilding or refurbishing them. None of the sounding rockets or orbital-grade hardware saw reuse before the Space Shuttle entered service during the 1980s. There are only a couple of exceptions to that rule and even these were suborbital flights.

Not touching KCT with a 10 ft pole, but would it be possible to add a module to command parts which contains a buildsource="VAB" or buildsource="SPH", then limit recovery to only that building from which it originated?

[siimav]

7 minutes ago, nepphhh said:

Not touching KCT with a 10 ft pole, but would it be possible to add a module to command parts which contains a buildsource="VAB" or buildsource="SPH", then limit recovery to only that building from which it originated?

It sounds possible but wouldn't still prevent people from launching SRs from the runway in the first place.

[Nich]

On 1/13/2020 at 12:06 PM, siimav said:

It sounds possible but wouldn't still prevent people from launching SRs from the runway in the first place.

or even SR launched from airplanes

[Maestro22]

Sorry for a probably stupid question here... (I played KSP for many years, but have several months of "dehabituation" behind me...)

I wanted to follow the installation instructions. It starts with an installation of KSP 1.7.3. I have kept some older versions downloaded, but not this exact one (I have 1.7.2 instead). The current downladable version of KSP at the store is 1.8.1. How do I access/download a specific older version?

[Stone Blue]

2 hours ago, Maestro22 said:

The current downladable version of KSP at the store is 1.8.1. How do I access/download a specific older version?

Look for a link below that, for "Older Versions" .... KSP Store still has all major releases from 1.7.3 back to 1.0.5

[KnedlikMCPE]

I have a problem, KCT behaves like it wasn’t in gamedata at all and there are no RP-1 contracts (V1.7.3)