Orbit Boot Camp

[Chequers]

@CBase It probably wasn’t well thought out enough, for the reasons you’ve mentioned. 

When I say efficiency, I mean trying to complete the challenge with the tightest margin. But as you say, that’s actually hard to calculate in this engine, as the delta-v calculation as affected by so many things. Many of which can be used to confuse KSP

 

Good idea about how to reposition this though - I think we’re closing in on a replacement.

Edited April 24, 2020 by Chequers

[Bingleberry]

@ChequersQuestion about the challenge, I am working out the kinks on my 7 piece craft, and was wondering if the science counts as “parts,” since they negatively affect your assent/orbit? if science doesn’t count toward our part count, I may have a first class contender, because I can throw in that science jr and figure if I need a little something extra to get out of the atmosphere... otherwise, I’ll be posting my boot camp entry with only four adornments once I have a minute to run the mission and export pictures from my ps4... as I’ve run a successful run, without pictures, and only 22 m/s left to de-orbit; there’s no way I can aim a multi orbit aerobrake, and accurately hit ksc (granted, I’ve never done it in the best of circumstances).

 

I'm really loving this challenge, by the way!

[Chequers]

9 minutes ago, Bingleberry said:

@ChequersQuestion about the challenge, I am working out the kinks on my 7 piece craft, and was wondering if the science counts as “parts,” since they negatively affect your assent/orbit? if science doesn’t count toward our part count, I may have a first class contender, because I can throw in that science jr and figure if I need a little something extra to get out of the atmosphere... otherwise, I’ll be posting my boot camp entry with only four adornments once I have a minute to run the mission and export pictures from my ps4... as I’ve run a successful run, without pictures, and only 22 m/s left to de-orbit; there’s no way I can aim a multi orbit aerobrake, and accurately hit ksc (granted, I’ve never done it in the best of circumstances).

 

I'm really loving this challenge, by the way!

Welcome to Orbit Boot Camp - glad you're enjoying the challenge! 

Science Experiments do count as parts: So if you're going for the Silver Claw and Pearl Escutcheon (for conducting the four science experiments), then that will add 4 parts to your count. If you're going for the 1st Class Insignia, then you'll need to carefully choose which adornments you are going for! While doing all the science experiments gets you two adornments, you might struggle to get some of the more 'simple' adornments, like part count or launch cost below 5k.

Looking forward to seeing your entry! Remember, you're more than welcome to submit multiple entries, so even if your first doesn't get you on the 1st Class Register, if you complete the base challenge of 'Orbit and back for less than 5,000 mission cost', then you'll be added to the Honour Roll, awarded the Kerbin Crescent, and can use the badge in your signature. 

[Space Nerd]

19 hours ago, Chequers said:

Looking at it though, it seems to just give more information about your landing trajectory, but doesn't actually do anything for you - is that correct?

Yup.

So I probably won't use that to land at KSC, because I might can't do that without it.

[Chequers]

4 minutes ago, Space Nerd said:

Yup.

Then it'd get past the OBC committee. So long as the manoeuvre is planned and carried out by the pilot, then I see this as no different to using a manoeuvre node to plan a circularisation burn.

[CBase]

8 hours ago, Space Nerd said:

On 4/24/2020 at 8:01 AM, Chequers said:

Looking at it though, it seems to just give more information about your landing trajectory, but doesn't actually do anything for you - is that correct?

Yup.

So I probably won't use that to land at KSC, because I might can't do that without it.

For me it reduces landing attempts until it is perfect as it roughly simulates my landing position. Actually even with Trajectories I usually need 2 to 3 attempts until a perfect runway landing, without probably 2 more until I find the right timing.

Basically you eyeball a deorbit node, quick save, perform the landing and notice the target difference. Then reload and adjust the time by distance/orbital_velocity, save and repeat. With Trajectory the intial guess is better. 

Actually my overall playstyle nowadays is that doing it manual is no solution, but to look for a SpaceX pipeline: set up an automation, then improve while repeating. So I spend propably same amount of hours on equations and coding as in game.

[Chequers]

Update

After much consideration, and on the advice of some of the entrants on the Honour Roll - who have far more experience and knowledge than I - I have decided to retire the 'Gold Florettes' unique adornment. It was, unfortunately, a contrived challenge, that did not reflect the original intent of trying to reach orbit with the lowest dV possible.

Those that were awarded the Gold Florettes will still have that adornment listed next to their entries on the Honour Roll. 

It has been replaced with the Diamond Wings - which awards the heaviest payload delivered into orbit. Furthermore, the Cobalt Stripe is now an additional adornment, for delivering a payload into orbit as part of your mission.

Edited April 25, 2020 by Chequers

[CBase]

Since I still like this challenge to stay cheap, here is another submission to the OBC comittee:

Bootscience, a level 4 tech rocket with two crew spaces and full science: Material Bay, Goo, Temperature and Pressure for counting 4596 mission cost due to recovery capped at 5000. All without using Trajectories or MechJeb, although the pain for a perfect landing without Trajectories was bigger than I thought. In total I needed 14 landing attempts, 7 of them within 2km. Since currently I cannot upload full 2:30 h, here are 5 video excerpts.

Some notes: Thermal Debug for Science Jr reads 2nd line "All Skin" if it is shielded by upper part and "Exposed Skin" if angle of attack is wrong. Switching between Stability and Retrograde get into optimal AoA.

 

Total of 4 videos, hit next for failed, close and final successful landing attempts

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

Edited May 2, 2020 by CBase

[Chequers]

Congratulations on your entry, @CBase, and for demonstrating you are able to do so without assistance from mods. Thank you for your screenshot mission report - and particularly for your persistence in achieving a landing back at KSC. A truly impressive entry, with BootScience! It earns you the Silver Claw (with full ribbon complement), Pearl Escutcheon, Onyx Eyes, Crossed Swords and Vermilion Heart. For achieving five additional adornments in a single mission, you join the ranks of those with the 1st Class Insignia. Your name and vessel will be recorded on the 1st Class Register. Well done, sir!

[BallistX]

On 4/24/2020 at 6:21 AM, Chequers said:

I’m with you @Klapaucius and I included the same rule, but it gets a bit subjective. One persons exploit is another’s understanding of the game engine. The original intent of the lowest dV adornment was to promote efficiency - not game the way it’s calculated. But that’s just the way it goes.

@mystifeid, you’re right - I think it’s run it’s course. Ill replace the Gold Florettes with a different challenge - perhaps ‘Highest Apoapsis’

Highest apoapsis? Well i did get a Minmus encounter with this challenge, i could refine the model to get the apoapsis all the way up to the limit of about 84000km

[Chequers]

36 minutes ago, BallistX said:

Highest apoapsis? Well i did get a Minmus encounter with this challenge, i could refine the model to get the apoapsis all the way up to the limit of about 84000km

You raise the issue with this challenge that prevented me from going through with adding it. There's a hard apoapsis border for orbiting Kerbin... which is indeed the edge of its SOI, which means once somebody (such as yourself) reaches it, nobody else can compete for it. 

There's a new unique adornment to get a payload into orbit, that no one has claimed yet - so feel free to lay down a benchmark for that one!

Edited April 30, 2020 by Chequers

[Klapaucius]

1 hour ago, Chequers said:

You raise the issue with this challenge that prevented me from going through with adding it. There's a hard apoapsis border for orbiting Kerbin... which is indeed the edge of its SOI, which means once somebody (such as yourself) reaches it, nobody else can compete for it. 

There's a new unique adornment to get a payload into orbit, that no one has claimed yet - so feel free to lay down a benchmark for that one!

You can make it highest apoapsis around Kerbol.

[Chequers]

6 hours ago, Klapaucius said:

You can make it highest apoapsis around Kerbol.

That would indeed open it up; and thanks for the idea — but I think it would take this challenge too far away from it's original spirit, which is about orbiting Kerbin. I'm more than open to ideas for what to replace the Gold Florettes with, but it does need to keep within orbiting Kerbin.

Edited April 30, 2020 by Chequers

[Klapaucius]

3 minutes ago, Chequers said:

That would indeed open it up; and thanks for the idea — but I think it would take this challenge too far away from it's original spirit, which is about orbiting Kerbin. I'm more than open to ideas for what to replace the Gold Florettes with, but it does need to keep within orbiting Kerbin.

Honestly, you have enough already.  

[Chequers]

Just now, Klapaucius said:

Honestly, you have enough already.  

I thought the same. Thanks for your input! 

[BallistX]

Another idea for replacing Gold Florettes could be the fastest time to orbit?

[James Kerman]

Congratulations @Chequers and all the contributors to this challenge, you have been awarded Thread Of The Month.

[Chequers]

42 minutes ago, James Kerman said:

Congratulations @Chequers and all the contributors to this challenge, you have been awarded Thread Of The Month.

What an honour! Thank you!

And thanks to everyone who has taken part and contributed some amazing ideas and craft to this challenge so far: I've been really inspired by your creations! Here's to more shoe-string orbits! 

[BallistX]

7 hours ago, Chequers said:

What an honour! Thank you!

And thanks to everyone who has taken part and contributed some amazing ideas and craft to this challenge so far: I've been really inspired by your creations! Here's to more shoe-string orbits! 

Congrats on TOTM, did you view my proposition to replace gold florettes of the fastest time to an orbital trajectory (periapsis above 70km)

[Space Nerd]

I belive this is a first class entry.

Presenting: the KSS Bootcamper Mk3!

(Mk2 is also a prototype for first class entry that carries a "budget sat" but can't fulfill 5 adornments without being overpriced.)

https://imgur.com/a/snWPagd

[Chequers]

@Space Nerd, well done on your entry, 'KSS "Bootcamper" Mk3', and for your detailed screenshot mission report. I particularly enjoyed the 'mood lighting' you set for the mission, by launching at dusk. This entry is awarded the Zircon Chevron, Silver Claw (with K-Ribbon), Amber Leaves, Onyx Eyes and Vermilion Heart. For achieving 5 additional adornments in a single launch, you gain a smattering of applause from the 'one with the moustache' at the OBC committee, along with the 1st Class Insignia. Your name and vessel will be entered in the prestigious 1st Class Register - congratulations! 

And please feel free to also submit 'Bootcamper Mk2' - if it successfully meets the requirements of 'below 5,000 mission cost', while delivering a satellite into orbit, you will be the first to claim the unique adornment of the Diamond Wings, and lay down a benchmark for all would-be challengers!

7 hours ago, BallistX said:

Congrats on TOTM, did you view my proposition to replace gold florettes of the fastest time to an orbital trajectory (periapsis above 70km)

Thanks for the idea! I'll have a think about the logistics and parameters of it, and may include it in the next round of updates.

[Dman979]

On 4/30/2020 at 1:22 AM, Klapaucius said:

You can make it highest apoapsis around Kerbol.

I mean, I'm not sure it needs any more adornments... but a "highest periapsis" would be interesting. Sure, there's a theoretical upper limit (just at the edge of Kerbin's SOI), but I'm fairly confident that it's gonna be too hard to hit the limit with 5000.

 

And BTW, @Chequers, congrats on TOTM!

[Space Nerd]

The Mk2 costs almost 10000 funds, and the recoverable parts are about 5000 funds, so I don't think it will fulfill this challenge.

But I might still make it work, it's just it won't be first class anymore. (Which doesn't matter now, because I got into first class by Mk3)

[Superfluous J]

1 hour ago, Dman979 said:

"highest periapsis" would be interesting. Sure, there's a theoretical upper limit (just at the edge of Kerbin's SOI), but I'm fairly confident that it's gonna be too hard to hit the limit with 5000.

INB4 someone says you could just keep your apoapsis low while raising your periapsis to the edge of Kerbin's SOI.

[mystifeid]

Wow, TOTM @Chequers!! Congratulations.

2 hours ago, Dman979 said:

Sure, there's a theoretical upper limit (just at the edge of Kerbin's SOI), but I'm fairly confident that it's gonna be too hard to hit the limit with 5000.

Yeah, not so much. If you can recover 5k you can start with 10k but let's go with a launchpad cost of less than 5k. Without caring much about the ascent profile, a Terrier and two Thumpers easily makes it to a 83Mm/83Mm orbit with more than enough fuel to deorbit. Pretty sure I didn't need the heat shield either.

Spoiler