[1.12.5] Luciole 1.9

[KIMCHI]

Has anyone tackled RO compatibility for this? This is one of the best mods. If someone does the RF/DE entries I can do the RP-1 configs.

[Well]

Have a lot of trouble in 1.11 so far, Mass or DeltaV is completely changed. No idea why

Don't expect an 1.11 compatibility until a KSP fix update

[Well]

Maybe found a solution, will see

[Spaceman.Spiff]

On 1/21/2021 at 2:26 PM, Well said:

Mass or DeltaV is completely changed

I think it might be because the kerbals have mass now, and the stock command pods decreased mass accordingly.

[Well]

16 minutes ago, Spaceman.Spiff said:

I think it might be because the kerbals have mass now, and the stock command pods decreased mass accordingly.

this could have an impact on the pod yes, but all parts are actually affected by this problem, even unammed.

Caused by a new rules of KSP physics in 1.11  https://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/26898

[Well]

i also work on a Waterfall patch for Luciole

Here a try  on the aerospike

[Well]

I've decided to add a little part for the next fix update,

A little ion engine for those little cubesat. Multi shape variant.

[Spaceman.Spiff]

Looks really nice. 
Are you going to make Waterfalls for the Ion engines as well? It really shines in that use case. 

[GuessingEveryDay]

32 minutes ago, Spaceman.Spiff said:

Are you going to make Waterfalls for the Ion engines as well?

The plumes of those engines look very similar to Waterfall's. So there's a pretty good bet they are.

[Well]

37 minutes ago, Spaceman.Spiff said:

Looks really nice. 
Are you going to make Waterfalls for the Ion engines as well? It really shines in that use case. 

That waterfall on screen

Set only emissive color on stock, due to the scale

[Well]

Luciole 1.6 is online     Github

Luciole 1.6 [2021-01-25]

- Add Waterfall Support
- Fix for KSP 1.11
- Support new 1.11 inventory system
- Include Thumbs picture for inventory
- New Subassemblies craft files
- New CubeSat Ion Engine

 

[nexprevious88]

Ckan support?
I've always liked this mod and would love for that to be added

[golkaidakhaana]

On 3/14/2021 at 9:50 PM, nexprevious88 said:

Ckan support?
I've always liked this mod and would love for that to be added

Well,s mods do not support Ckan and never will

[Neebel]

Is this mod balanced for stock scale or 2.5x/JNSQ rescale?

[SpaceFace545]

2 hours ago, Neebel said:

Is this mod balanced for stock scale or 2.5x/JNSQ rescale?

I don't think so, but don't quote me on that.

[Cheesecake]

2 hours ago, Neebel said:

Is this mod balanced for stock scale or 2.5x/JNSQ rescale?

It is balanced like the most part-mods: for stock. But in the fact that te stock-parts are very overpowered and works well in JNSQ or other 2.5 scaled systems, Luciole works well too in JNSQ.

[Neebel]

Thank you both! Just downloaded the mod 

Edit: Sooo I just played around with the new parts a bit, and first of all, I really love this little rocket and the cubesats too. One thing I've noticed however, the launchpads have crew capacity and inventory slots. Is this intended? 

Edited March 21, 2021 by Neebel

[Aerospacer]

@Neebel Imho, this mod overpowered for the stock, because its parts provide much more opportunities with less weight, and appear earlier in the career. This destroys the balance of opening stock parts in a career.  But many people like the look of the parts so much that they turn a blind eye to it. Some forum members hinted at this to the author, but he said that he wanted to keep the mod available for JNSQ.

Edited March 22, 2021 by Aerospacer

[Neebel]

@Aerospacer well yeah, it's indeed a bit overpowered.  If I didn't drop the second stage with lots of fuel in it, I could've probably managed to take the included 'Rescue Pod' craft to the mun or further.  Some kind of stock version with tweaked tanks and engines for more realistic performance would be very nice.

[golkaidakhaana]

7 hours ago, Neebel said:

@Aerospacer well yeah, it's indeed a bit overpowered.  If I didn't drop the second stage with lots of fuel in it, I could've probably managed to take the included 'Rescue Pod' craft to the mun or further.  Some kind of stock version with tweaked tanks and engines for more realistic performance would be very nice.

Or just use JNSQ

[Neebel]

1 hour ago, golkaidakhaana said:

Or just use JNSQ

JNSQ is "not for the player-base at large, but for seasoned players", and I only have KSP since about half a year. I mean I wouldn't consider myself as a noob, but I'm just not good enough for JNSQ. 

 

Edited March 22, 2021 by Neebel

[Cheesecake]

Stock-parts are overpowered for stock. Build a stockish Saturn-V and you can go to every planet in the stock-system. Unrealistic. So, mostly all parts in mods are customized to this stock-parts and, logical, overpowered. I do not know a single mod who works only in Stock instead of 2.5 scale. If you want one you must build a .cfg yourself.

[Aerospacer]

@Cheesecake Stock-parts, in principle, can not to be overpowered for stock. They are the stock as it is. They form an overall balance of characteristics, which the developers control, and if some property of a part falls out of the characteristics, it is compensated for by another property. This is how the general technical level of all parts of the KSP is formed and allows them to be harmoniously used in one game, complementing (but not replacing) each other.

A rocket similar to Saturn 5 is not required to do the same as Saturn 5, since this is not Earth, but Kerbin. It has its own rules, and the achievement of many goals is simplified to expand the circle of players and increase the fun. But the stock balance creates a common field of rules for all, in which the mechanics and logic of the game work most reliably.

At the origins of KSP modding, mods often appeared that had characteristics better than stock ones, and made them unnecessary, but later the modding community recognized this as an unworthy behavior, and most of the surviving mods either have the characteristics of parts according to the stock balance (supplementing the stock set, for example, Missing History), or expanding the stock in areas that it does not cover - historical vehicles, unique parts, components for large orbital stations, future technologies beyond the stock tech tree or means that significantly change gameplay - life support, new resources, colonies, etc. Mods with overpowered parts make it easier to achieve the goals of the game, and in this they come close to cheats, destroying the stock gameplay. Anyway, there are people who like the "easy way", cheats, etc., so they like these mods. But the use of simplifying mods for JNSQ or more complex planetpacks is not entirely clear to me - after all, they are chosen to complicate the game in comparison with the stock, so why simplify the game? Complicate to simplify later ??  

Well's mods have always been distinguished by the great beauty of its details and good functionality, and the stock balance for other mods was mostly respected. Luciole is a rare exception, well, let there be at least one, why not? But I played enough of it very quickly, and I see no reason to include it in my career. Imho if a player wants to go through the game in a more difficult way, into JNSQ, he will go through it even with stock parts only, or add life support etc..

Edited March 22, 2021 by Aerospacer
typo

[Neebel]

@Cheesecakewell yes, but no. Some people say stock parts are overpowered for stock, and that's not really true. It depends on what kind of mod you have. A mod like for example  NF launch vehicles or just simply stock KSP gives you parts to build whatever you want to and you decide if it's overpowered or not. Mods like BDB or Luciole however are made with real or conceptual vehicle designs in mind, but  unfortunately they are often balanced for 2.5 rescale and therefore overpowered for the stock planet system. And that's what I was trying to say. Of course, you can always sit back and enjoy bigger payload capabilities, but, let's take BDB again, if you can take a Mercury capsule to the mun or even further, it's just somewhat game-breaking. It's the same with Luciole: A micro-scale launcher designed to take a few cubesats to orbit that can carry them to Duna instead is kind of game-breaking. The problem is that a lot of mods made to build real-life vehicles are optimized for 2.5 scale. Since the point of downloading them is to recreate real missions/launchers (even if they never flew), you're forced to use rescale or JNSQ, which somewhat limits these mods to more advanced players. And that's a bit sad in my opinion.

Edited March 22, 2021 by Neebel
addition

[CDSlice]

25 minutes ago, Neebel said:

@Cheesecakewell yes, but no. Some people say stock parts are overpowered for stock, and that's not really true. It depends on what kind of mod you have. A mod like for example  NF launch vehicles or just simply stock KSP gives you parts to build whatever you want to and you decide if it's overpowered or not. Mods like BDB or Luciole however are made with a certain real or conceptual vehicle design in mind, and unfortunately they are often balanced for 2.5 rescale and therefore overpowered for the stock planet system. And that's what I was trying to say. Of course, you can always sit back and enjoy bigger payload capabilities, but, let's take BDB again, if you can take a Mercury capsule to the mun or even further, it's just somewhat game-breaking. It's the same with Luciole: A micro-scale launcher designed to take a few cubesats to orbit that can carry them to Duna instead is kind of gamebreaking.

The reason you can take a BDB Mercury capsule to the Mun in stock scale is because otherwise the BDB rockets would be massively underpowered compared to the stock parts. Other than trying to recreate a specific mission there would be no other reason to use the massively weaker BDB parts instead of stock parts at the same size. And to be fair, stock's version of the Mercury capsule (the Mk1 capsule) and the Redstone rocket (the  early game 1.25m parts) can easily go to the Mun as well so unless you want to say that stock parts are also game breaking you can't say that BDB is either. As for why this is true it is because the stock game scales down the planets 10 times compared to real life while only scaling down the power of the rocket parts by around 2.5 times by increasing the dry mass of the tanks and nerfing the engine power. As such in order to make the rockets have realistic capabilities you have to either nerf the parts (which makes them super weak compared to stock parts) or increase the size of the planets (which gives you JNSQ scale)

 

That said, even in JNSQ scale Luciole is extremely overpowered and wrecks the balance of the game by giving you much more powerful parts earlier and smaller than the 1.25m parts. As such although the parts are really amazing since I haven't had the time to figure out the best way to nerf them to give reasonable performance in JNSQ I've had to take them out of my game.

Edited March 22, 2021 by CDSlice