[1.3.1] Ferram Aerospace Research: v0.15.9.1 "Liepmann" 4/2/18

[martinezfg11]

No, I'm referring to having a flap and aileron on a wing that can act independently of eachother. But still attached to the same part.

[tetryds]

Just now, martinezfg11 said:

No, I'm referring to having a flap and aileron on a wing that can act independently of eachother. But still attached to the same part.

That is normal just place several control surfaces on the same part.

Or do you mean a flaperon?

If so, yes, you can set a control surface to work as a flap and still use it as an aileron or flap or rudder normally.

[martinezfg11]

OK. Thanks. I know that with FAR you can make a wing with a control surface as a part of the wing. Much like the stock delta-delux winglet. I was wanting to make a wing with 2 control surfaces built into the wing, yet able to be controlled independently with the tweakable features you mentioned.

[blowfish]

4 minutes ago, martinezfg11 said:

OK. Thanks. I know that with FAR you can make a wing with a control surface as a part of the wing. Much like the stock delta-delux winglet. I was wanting to make a wing with 2 control surfaces built into the wing, yet able to be controlled independently with the tweakable features you mentioned.

That's not supported.  You can only have one aero surface per wing part.

[martinezfg11]

I see. Thanks!

[19chickens]

Installed!  0.15.7.2 fixed the one bug I had!

[PTGFlyer]

On 8/19/2016 at 5:26 PM, tetryds said:

@raxo2222 Please discuss aircraft design here: 

 

@StarStreak2109 FAR and KIS are known to have issues playing with each other, due to the way it works, never had problems using FAR and KAS only though.

Either way I believe it's an issue on the KAS side, I have only seen FAR failing to voxelize things of messed up mods, none of its own business.

@PTGFlyer PM a moderator or report your own post with the request so that the moderation team can remove it for you.

You can always edit your posts too if you wish.

Okay, I'll do that then.

I did edit it. I just didn't find something to delete it in the edit.

[LordOfMinecraft99]

Hi, i have a problem on Windows 64 bit. No wings provide lift, not in the "More Info" right click window or in the C.O.L readout OR in flight. Here is my modlist:

Ok, thats it! Please Please Please help!

[cantab]

Someone might recognise a mod with a known issue in that list, but if they don't you're gonna have to figure it out yourself. Clean KSP install, test FAR. Add some mods and test it again. Repeat until you have narrowed down the mod causing the problem. Be aware that it's possible FAR+X works and FAR+Y works but FAR+X+Y gives the bug.

Edited August 23, 2016 by cantab

[PTGFlyer]

So this mod doesn't work with FAR.

 

And they know that. Do you guys know if that problem's on your end?

[ferram4]

@AccidentalDisassembly: Yes, FAR does have some effects on buoyancy as a side result of having to rip out stock's drag code.  The stock buoyancy model uses drag cubes (partially, IIRC) to model partial submersion of some things and FAR's replacement ends up with a slightly better buoyancy model.  As for water drag, yes, it's very very high.  Water is ~800x as dense as air, so the forces will be ~800 times as high, and on something as light as aircraft that tends to add up.  You need something that can skim on the top of the water to get the drag down.

And no, there currently isn't a way to turn off FAR's changing of wing mass, because then I would have to remove the mass-strength multiplier as well and that would be a complicated bit of code to do.

@LordOfMinecraft99: Well, you should have all the dependencies with that.  It's worth noting that FAR doesn't add any info to the "More Info" tab in the editor, and it removes the stock item, so that is correct behavior.  And the FAR removes the arrow from the CoL marker because it's just a location, not a vector of any kind, so if the CoL exists somewhere on the vehicle rather than the center of the floor, then that too is correct behavior.  And if that's the case, and the F12 aero overlay shows arrows coming out of your wings when they're at an angle of attack, then the problem is that your planes are too heavy, which if you just installed FAR and are used to building stock planes, that is almost certainly the case.

@PTGFlyer: Last I heard no one had any idea why that happens, and given that it involves Kerbals I don't know how much I can do.  I can look more into it, but the problem is that unless whatever method KIS uses to attach the part can trigger the stock game's vessel-update methods (considering that Kerbals count as vessels just like regular craft do), I can't do anything at all with it.

[PTGFlyer]

I was afraid of that.

Well, more specifically, I'm afraid of killing Jebediah with no reverts or crew respawns.

[StarStreak2109]

12 hours ago, LordOfMinecraft99 said:

Hi, i have a problem on Windows 64 bit. No wings provide lift, not in the "More Info" right click window or in the C.O.L readout OR in flight. Here is my modlist:

Ok, thats it! Please Please Please help!

You have three ModuleManager dlls in your GameData folder. Delete all but the newest one (.25). Sometimes, you can also solve issues by deleting the modulemanager cache.

[secretly_asian]

Hmm, I'm not sure how to say this, but for some reason the stock wing parts and control surfaces seem to randomly not generate lift. Sometimes elevators on my aircraft generate only drag and other times nothing at all. Here are the logs of my last launch

https://www.dropbox.com/s/idna4sps1i74868/KSP.log?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/a8jtuqa5dbmh18j/output_log.txt?dl=0

[Van Disaster]

95% sure this is wing/craft shape related, but on the 5% chance I need to poke my head into B9PW / current replacement, any obvious reason the second flap panel out from the fuselage is showing more drag than the others? the craft is well below critical mach & the wing has a couple of degrees AoA. The flaps are slightly less thick than the main wing panels.

Spoiler

 

[AccidentalDisassembly]

On 8/23/2016 at 6:37 AM, ferram4 said:

@AccidentalDisassembly: Yes, FAR does have some effects on buoyancy as a side result of having to rip out stock's drag code.  The stock buoyancy model uses drag cubes (partially, IIRC) to model partial submersion of some things and FAR's replacement ends up with a slightly better buoyancy model.  As for water drag, yes, it's very very high.  Water is ~800x as dense as air, so the forces will be ~800 times as high, and on something as light as aircraft that tends to add up.  You need something that can skim on the top of the water to get the drag down.

And no, there currently isn't a way to turn off FAR's changing of wing mass, because then I would have to remove the mass-strength multiplier as well and that would be a complicated bit of code to do.

Okie dokie, it's nice to know at least that I'm not crazy!

[Lan_Morehell]

Hello!

Could someone please explain me the flaps mechanism in FAR? It seems I'm doing something wrong, as Flaps dont behave as expected

Taking the simpliest craft with wing and flaps:

Here what we have with flaps up:

What should we expect when extending flaps? Cl should increase, Cd should increase also, lowering the overall L/D Max. But...

As we nas see, The L/D really lowers, Cd really rises... but. Cl max also lowers!! that means we cannot get more lift, and therefore we cannot fly at lower speed with flaps extended... 

Tried to test that in flight.

1. got the craft flying wings level, altitude hold at 2500. 

2. extend flaps to landing config

3. Slowed down to 55 mps (AoA 15 degrees). Flies smoothly and stable

4. retracted flaps to up...

NOTHING! It shoud have had stalled at the same moment I'd selected flaps up. but no. It continued to fly without any problem

 

So the question is: How to get real operational benefit from using flaps? Ideally please show sreens on how to properly install them, what is the right deflection angle to really lower the approach speed.

Edited September 6, 2016 by Lan_Morehell

[ratchet freak]

try lowering the speed (mach in the bottom right) or switch to mach sweep, flaps should help you maintain lift at lower speeds. Once you are fast enough flaps don't help much.

[ferram4]

The way to get more lift out of flaps is to realize that they are plain flaps and cannot be deflected that much before they will stall.  At very high deflections their main benefit is actually drag to help slow the plane down for landing.

Odds are what's happening in both these pictures is that you've got the flaps deflected pretty heavily with very little in the way of actual wing surface ahead of them to work with, and so a shape that cambered is stalling out really suddenly.  Larger wings, smaller flaps relative to the wings, less deflection should be fine.  The Firehound example craft does a good job of showing how flaps work.

[Knobby]

I clicked some buttons (sorry can't be more specific) in the FAR menu at KSC screen and now the 2nd tab (aerodynamic failures?) is completely empty.

I can't  see the other tabs (literally an empty window) so i can't even go back to the other screens.

How do i reset it? Uninstalling and reinstalling via CKAN does not fix it.

[kcs123]

1 hour ago, Knobby said:

I clicked some buttons (sorry can't be more specific) in the FAR menu at KSC screen and now the 2nd tab (aerodynamic failures?) is completely empty.

I can't  see the other tabs (literally an empty window) so i can't even go back to the other screens.

How do i reset it? Uninstalling and reinstalling via CKAN does not fix it.

Uninstall with CKAN. Inspect gamedata folder, there is most probably "FerramAerospaceResearch" still there. Delete it. Install FAR again with CKAN.

[Knobby]

 

On 9/8/2016 at 9:20 PM, kcs123 said:

Uninstall with CKAN. Inspect gamedata folder, there is most probably "FerramAerospaceResearch" still there. Delete it. Install FAR again with CKAN.

that worked, thanks

[MrChittyChad]

Is there a mod out there that actually knows aerodynamics? Stock aero doesn't help either. when I rotate a plane left or right, it should turn. Its dumb that I have to pitch up and lose tons of speed just to turn.

 

[softweir]

That is how real planes fly - you bank left, then as the plane starts to slip left it also slips down, so you have to pitch up to maintain altitude and add throttle to maintain airspeed. The further you bank, the more pitch-up and throttle you need. Light aircraft need very little pitch-up, but high-performance jets need more. Some aircraft have a semi-automatic pilot that does this for the pilot.

(If you bank very hard then you need to use reverse-rudder to keep the nose high above the horizon so as to maintain altitude, as well as lots of pitch-up to force the turn. IE rudder-right for a left-hand turn, rudder-left for a right-hand turn.)

A lot of gameulators fool players by not simulating the loss of altitude when banking. High-quality simulators usually have modes where this is simulated properly, and others where the need for pitch-up and reverse rudder is removed to make flying easier.

In conclusion: it is a mark of the quality of the game that you need to fly your craft properly.

Edited September 11, 2016 by softweir
Remembered to add throttle to maintain airspeed.

[UltraJohn]

Hi, I'm having a problem with my planes. It seems like they always yaw out of control no matter what I do (or maybe i just suck at designing). I'm not sure if it has to do with the red numbers and I have no idea how to fix them either. I would really appreciate some help!

Craft: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43849213/Mk2 Sub-orbital Plane.craft?dl=1

Edited September 13, 2016 by John007qwe