Do you think we should attempt contact with aliens?

[caballerodiez]

I would like to know your opinion about this.

Do you think we should try to contact aliens?

I think it's safe as long as we choose stars as old as the Sun or younger.

I also think that, if a nearby civilization hasn't contacted with us yet, it's probably because they don't have the means to do so.

Actually, according to Claudio Maccone, there are probably no advanced civilizations within 500 light years.

There is an organization called METI, that tries to message extraterrestrial intelligence. More info here.

Edited April 19, 2020 by caballerodiez

[kerbiloid]

I believe the only possible chemical base of a developed life is same like on the Earth, oxygen-water-carbon.
Others can give only spots of protobacterial slime on stones in the best case, and we can't have a contact with it.

The Earth-like conditions, enough stable for at least a billion years, are probably very rare, and the probability of their fruition into something of human level is low.

The conditions on the Earth-like planets can't last long.
They are limited by geological activity powering the magnetosphere. Geo stops - magnet drops.

So, it has just several billion years to develop a sapient life from scratch, and the sapient life can appear close to the very final.
(The Earth will become totally lifeless in several hundred million years. ~50 mln or so is left for human-friendly conditions, and ~500 mln for the lowest forms.
1.5 bln is the absolute limit due to geological finalization.
And the Earth life is the longest possible, as smaller planets finalize faster, while bigger ones become Venuses and Uranuses).

***

The necessity of a sapient life form for the rocky planet itself is not very high.
The low-level life forms like plants and non-sapient animals are absolutely enough to stabilize conditions, to fix the river valleys and coastlines and protect them from erosion, to keep local temperature and humidity stable, to enforce the soil with roots.
The sapient life form just reconditions this under its needs.
So, a sapient life form development is natural and expectable but not essential and can stay postponed until the conditions get inappropriate for life at all.

Galactic conditions are mostly deadly for life, both close to the central bulge and to the arms, and poor for its appearance a little farther.
So, it looks like the human-level life can appear and become civilizations only in several 1000-ly wide bubbles at the same orbital distance from the galaxy center like we have.

**

The sapient life needs tools to change the conditions around them rather than change their bodies, as this is more quick and universal strategy to survive.

So, they will find out metallurgy, electricity, and ay last semi-conductors which lets them build computers and networks which fruit into internet, AI, and at last AI-assisted redistributed and shared mind.

After that the civilization would loose its biological nature with its limitations and become a set of minds in artificial bodies of arbitrary shape and nature, hardly contactable for the advanced monkeys just due to thinking in different terms.

Once becoming an overmind, the civilisation should live in another time scale, planning its daily schedule in millions of years instead of minutes.

Lasting for many millions of years, it should intersect on timescale with previously appeared overminds and interact with them.

As all of them wouldn't be too numerous, their original biological nature has been forgotten long ago, their original homeworlds are dead rocks, they should just form a galactic continuum of interacting overminds, so form a single united overcivilisation (though maybe having its own civil wars and struggle for local resources we can't imagine, like areas with specific physical field characteristics).

***

This probably should make unique civilizations very rare, and probability of their co-existence at the human level in the same million of years negligible.

Say, first several billions of years they are too stupid for us, last several billions they are too wise and unimaginable for us.

In between there is a flash-short moment of chrysalis (u r here), lasting for a couple millions of years, when a monkey stops jumping on branches and begins programming.

This makes to think that human-level civilisatons are galactic solitairs; every of them live in its own time, and they usually don't intersect in time.
So, the Fermi paradox is actually not a paradox, but a thumb rule.

In this sense, we can't contact with anybody of our league but us.

***

On another hand if there are previouly appeared civilisations in the galaxy, they are have become overminds many eons ago.

We also can't contact with them because they are surely aware of us since we were monkeys, and as they don't contact themselves, this means they don't have much to talk about with inferior races.

***

But there is a possibility.

Like humans have (natural reserves / national parks) and populated them with imported species for balance and for aesthetic reasons, the galactic overminds can use a sapient inferior race like humans just for landscape design.
Like fishes in a fishtank, cockroaches in a terrarium, deer in a manor,  foresters in a forestry, NPC in a game, minions in a franchise, Kerbals on the Kerbin.

They could take as many humans as they need from were they live, modify them if necessary, and put on a life-friendly planet like we do this in Spore.

***

This probably means that a really different alien civilisation is unlikely, but there can be a number of planets inhabited by human/post-human colonies, including technically advanced ones.

As the humans reached the condition making them useful for sapient activity just several tens thousands of years ago, unlikely such worlds can be numerous.

Also there can be worlds populated with earlier sapient species reserved by the overminds in their terrariums and used to populate some planets.

***

Finally, this means that some star systems with life-friendly conditions can be populated, mostly by humans, but unlikely most of them have enough advanced technical level to contact with somebody.
Because for landscape design you need fantasy more than sci-fi, and because population size matters, unlikely such disneyland can have billions of humans.

So, I think and the moment SETI can bring nothing except disappointment, and we should focus on other topics, launch extraterrestrial telescopes to zoom extrasolar planets and study their geography.

Edited April 19, 2020 by kerbiloid

[DeadJohn]

I think yes we should try.

I also doubt we'll reach anyone. Statistically, given the size of the universe, there's a fair chance of extraterrestrial life. They are also likely to be too far away to contact by radio, or haven't invented radio yet, or maybe they are so far advanced that radio is ancient history for them so they'll never hear our transmissions.

Contacting life on another world will require science-fiction like technologies that we don't have yet: FTL travel, teleportation, or communication via something new that can travel faster than radio waves.

 

Edited April 19, 2020 by DeadJohn

[Spacescifi]

 

Contact has already occurred, is happening,  and will occur.

It's just not something that using technology will help you with since for all intents and purposes... they are beyond our form of existence.

We came on the scene long after they did.

We are like ants to them, and they are like gods.

Edited April 19, 2020 by Spacescifi

[cubinator]

I think we should be looking around for alien life, and for anybody else who we might be able to have some mutual understanding with. I don't think it's likely to happen with radio messages, though. Most likely the first alien life will be discovered either by advanced telescopes seeing it covering extrasolar planets, or by Martian fossils, or by exploring inside the oceans of Enceladus and Europa. 

[razark]

I say absolutely NOT!

If the lousy bastids can't be bothered to drop by and say hello, why should we be nice to them?

[kerbiloid]

We should first take aim then call.

  

6 hours ago, cubinator said:

Most likely the first alien life will be discovered either by advanced telescopes seeing it covering extrasolar planets, or by Martian fossils, or by exploring inside the oceans of Enceladus and Europa. 

Also total biocontrol may reveal them between the humans.

Edited April 20, 2020 by kerbiloid

[XB-70A]

Meanwhile, Aliens also wonder if they should contact us...

[Goaty1208]

Well, contacting aliens is hard:

1) find them

2)hope they are not bacteria

3)hope that they aren't "indipendence day" like aliens ()

4) wait years and years for the the aliens to see the message( thousand of years)

5) hope they want us to know that they are there

[Shpaget]

On 4/19/2020 at 5:59 AM, caballerodiez said:

 

I think it's safe as long as we choose stars as old as the Sun or younger.

The age of a star is not going to be very informative. A million years is nothing in a lifespan of a star, but it's quite a lot for sentient life with somewhat developed technology. In the middle of stone age, one million years of development is barely noticeable, but I'm pretty sure one million years from now will look a whole lot different than now. Even a thousand years from now will be unrecognizable. You can't judge the level of civilisation based on the age of star. Even if you receive an obviously artificial signal from a star 1000 ly away, and that signal describes the society on par with our own, by the time you receive it, that society is already a thousand years more advanced than we are. Replying to it will mean they are receiving a reply to a 2000 year old message.

What I want to say is that if your aim is to contact only the species at your own level of development, it's not going to happen. The window of opportunity is much too short. Unless there is some Universe wide hard peak a species can achieve and once they plateau, there just isn't anything else to develop. In that case you can observe the other species and contact them after they reach it, not that I think that is the case.

[kerbiloid]

The spectral class of the star means more than its age, as giant stars anyway live much less than yellow dwarves' ages differ.

***

We should covertly find the extraterrestrial aliens with telescopes, put a sniper on a roof, take cookies, and knock at their door.
When they open, we must hold out the cookies, smile to the ears, and say with most possible soppy voice, looking at the red spot between their eyebrows:
"Hi-i-i! We are your new neighbaaahz! Do you like our sun puddle? Don't worry, it's just playing!"

Then we can start exchanging with coded messages, pulsar frequencies, and disco music.

Edited April 22, 2020 by kerbiloid

[Goaty1208]

11 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

"Hi-i-i! We are your new neighbaaahz! Do you like our sun puddle? Don't worry, it's just playing!"

It takes a lot of time to contact aliens. And you say "We are your new neighbaaahz!"?

Ok, let's say it's normal.

[kerbiloid]

1 minute ago, Goaty1208 said:

It takes a lot of time to contact aliens. And you say "We are your new neighbaaahz!"?

Is it better to send a picture of a naked couple instead?

(Pioneer probes, you see.)

Edited April 22, 2020 by kerbiloid

[Goaty1208]

Just now, kerbiloid said:

Is it better to send a picture of a naked couple instead?

Mhh... don't think so

 

I mean: let's send them messages that have a scientific purpose.

 

[Shpaget]

5 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

Is it better to send a picture of a naked couple instead?

(Pioneer probes, you see.)

It just goes to prove that it's ok to send unsolicited nude pics, as long as they're gold plated.

In any case, sending data is meh. Oooo, look at us, we figured out the spin of electron in a hydrogen atom. How does that help us? We should request demand data.  Yo, Mr. Green, show us that hyperwarp drive of yours. and be quick about it! I don't have no millennia to wait for your slow ass radio wave reply.

[Goaty1208]

21 hours ago, Shpaget said:

Yo, Mr. Green, show us that hyperwarp drive of yours.

That's usefull

[Lewie]

There’s aliens out there. They are incredibly advanced, and have cities on an Earth like planet. Only it is so far away. And they are aware of us. I was the first human to speak to these guys. (Only to briefly learn they don’t know english)

[kerbiloid]

Just thought about the Pioneers' golden plate.

So, the first thing we did to our presumed neightbors is sending them our family nude photo, a scheme of our street with an arrow to our home across others' yards, and a list of FM radio frequencies we usually listen.
And all this was engraved on the piece of golden foil.

What would you think if you were those neighbors?

P.S.
At least now they can make golden teeth out of that plate.

P.P.S.
If they know what's "teeth".

***

3 hours ago, Lewie said:

There’s aliens out there. They are incredibly advanced, and have cities on an Earth like planet. Only it is so far away. And they are aware of us. I was the first human to speak to these guys. (Only to briefly learn they don’t know english)

Do they not have quarantine? Or how did you escape?

Edited April 23, 2020 by kerbiloid

[Lewie]

They didn’t abduct me. And no, they weren’t in quarantine.

[Spacescifi]

3 hours ago, Lewie said:

They didn’t abduct me. And no, they weren’t in quarantine.

 

So what did they look like?

Because most alien visitations I have heard about have much in common with people who say they saw a ghost.

In either case usually the person is isolated and most others are not aware of it.

Leading the person who saw it to seemingly have questionable credibility.

 

[Lewie]

I'm really sorry but I'm not allowed to say. I'm really sorry,  but due to an agreement I made I'm not allowed to talk about them. They are humanoid though, and have two legs if that helps your questions at all. I'm also the first person to go interstellar, walk on another planet and travel further then any man has gone before.

I would like to also say that my memory was wiped after I went to the other planet. Slowly bits and pieces are coming back to me, with the help of my friend that took me there. I'm really sorry, but I can confirm that aliens are real, they know about us, they don't want to hurt us, and it will be a long time until we contact them again. I won't happen until we invent interstellar travel, which also won't come around for a long time. (spoiler alert-It's a lot like warp drive!)

[Spacescifi]

5 minutes ago, Lewie said:

I'm really sorry but I'm not allowed to say. I'm really sorry,  but due to an agreement I made I'm not allowed to talk about them. They are humanoid though, and have two legs if that helps your questions at all. I'm also the first person to go interstellar, walk on another planet and travel further then any man has gone before.

 

Very well Captain Kirk.

I suppose you did not also act like Kirk does with them?

Kirk-fu and chasing skirts?

[Lewie]

23 minutes ago, Spacescifi said:

 

Very well Captain Kirk.

I suppose you did not also act like Kirk does with them?

Kirk-fu and chasing skirts?

Well...I did send some red shirts down first...

In all seriousness, no. But of my memory serves me correctly I did do the Vulcan greeting. I have no idea why I did it, but it seemed fitting.

[Dirkidirk]

sure, why not, since both of our civilisations will expand outwards at near the speed of light, contact is inevitable, better to let them prepare. It doesn't really matter or make a much of a difference if we announce our presence slightly louder than we have been in the past 80 years, since we will progressively will get louder as civilization gets larger.

Inevitable, like Thanos.

funny

46 minutes ago, Lewie said:

I'm really sorry but I'm not allowed to say. I'm really sorry,  but due to an agreement I made I'm not allowed to talk about them. They are humanoid though, and have two legs if that helps your questions at all. I'm also the first person to go interstellar, walk on another planet and travel further then any man has gone before.

I would like to also say that my memory was wiped after I went to the other planet. Slowly bits and pieces are coming back to me, with the help of my friend that took me there. I'm really sorry, but I can confirm that aliens are real, they know about us, they don't want to hurt us, and it will be a long time until we contact them again. I won't happen until we invent interstellar travel, which also won't come around for a long time. (spoiler alert-It's a lot like warp drive!)

nice.

14 minutes ago, Lewie said:

Well...I did send some red shirts down first...

In all seriousness, no. But of my memory serves me correctly I did do the Vulcan greeting. I have no idea why I did it, but it seemed fitting.

nicer!

Edited April 23, 2020 by Dirkidirk

[Lewie]

Well...they already are aware of us...and interesting fact...in the future(far future, ironically close to the time of TOS takes place) we do get ftl travel, believe it or not.