Dynetics vehicles and discussion

[tater]

56 minutes ago, sevenperforce said:

I assume they're talking about overall gross volume.

Yeah, I was assuming that as well, but if the crew volume is basically the same, why would it be substantially heavier? Reuse, I suppose to make it more rugged, plus obviously the increased dv requirements and increased life support.

Honestly, this lander and BO are sortie landers like Apollo. They are not ideal for 1-2 week stays, the inside of both with be a pigpen after the first eva (dust, even using suit bags).

Reuse? They keep talking reuse, and while that is certainly possible, we've all talked about this here—refilling the props is basically no different than sending a new craft. You need a spacecraft to remotely deliver propellant (power, control, maneuver). If a LV can just get a lander section to the Moon, then the same LV can just get a spacecraft to the Moon to refill that section unless there is somehow enough margin that 1 launch can somehow fill 2 stages... then you have a lander initially sent in 3 launches, later needing just 2 to refill. Seems dubious. Ditto "National Team." Lunar Starship actually has the same issue, though maybe if it was fully tanked it could return to some orbit where it could be refilled? The only plus there is any tanker doing that is not disposable (or the LEO—>LLO tanker is reused just in space, and it is filled in LEO).

Prop transfer doesn't work if the refilling spacecraft stages are not grossly cheaper than the reused bit.

 

[mikegarrison]

From what I hear, one of the most uncomfortable things about the LM was trying to sleep in it. Have the current designs done anything to address this?

[tater]

6 minutes ago, mikegarrison said:

From what I hear, one of the most uncomfortable things about the LM was trying to sleep in it. Have the current designs done anything to address this?

From the vid it seems to be a bare tube, then they are literally sticking foam core models of hardware on the walls to see where they should go (switch banks, stick, screens, etc). Clearly they need some attachment points for hammocks to experiment with.

If the initial crew is just 2, not so bad, but from everything I have read/heard about lunar EVA, it's extremely tiring work (maybe new suits are better?), and the inside of the LM was a mess after the first EVA from the soot-like dust. Once multiple EVAs were more of a thing, they'd strip the suits off (inside a bag), so that the suits could dry (sweat).

 

 

Edited September 15, 2020 by tater

[Silavite]

On 5/11/2020 at 4:52 PM, Barzon said:

From what I've heard from a HLS guy, I believe the drop tanks are launched individually, for a total of 3 launches.

There's probably been confirmation of this elsewhere, but this was confirmed in a webinar I attended. The other highlights included:

• Vulcan launches need to be at most 14 - 20 days apart to mitigate boiloff on the Centaur
• The unmanned test flight will demonstrate in-orbit refueling

That said, I'm disappointed that something like a third of the webinar was composed of recordings, and another third was composed of not-terribly-interesting discussion (I swear that they talked about the importance of internationalism in space at least 3 times).

Edit: Ninja'd by @tater, it seems! Yeah, there were a bunch of greyed out questions, unfortunately, and a lot of the questions which the moderator did choose to ask weren't very interesting. (My own was about the potential of using the lander with ACES down the road.) There was one question which asked, "Could a full mission (Orion + Lander) be launched on an SLS 1B plus a single Vulcan launch?" The moderator basically shrugged and nobody in the panel replied.

Edited September 15, 2020 by Silavite
Ninja'd!

[RCgothic]

Going up on Vulcan x3 confirmed.

 

[tater]

Is the lander using cryos, too, or storables?

The logistics of this are non-trivial.3 launches close together, AND an SLS launch, if so. Seems... non-optimal.

[Silavite]

Recording of the webinar is available:

Spoiler

 

 

[tater]

Skimmed a little so far, their animation shows the drop tanks coming off on the terminal descent. Unsure what that means for reuse, frankly. I assume that refilling Vulcans come with the drop tanks, AND residual props for the ascent stage?

[mikegarrison]

Pretty typical when exploring a new place. At first you just leave your old trash anywhere you drop it. Only much later do people start to say, "maybe we shouldn't be trashing this place up like this...."

[tater]

29 minutes ago, mikegarrison said:

Pretty typical when exploring a new place. At first you just leave your old trash anywhere you drop it. Only much later do people start to say, "maybe we shouldn't be trashing this place up like this...."

Dropping the trash on the Moon is another issue I was not even considering (it's gonna hit at like a km/s, throw up some ejecta).

I meant the logistics of reuse. 1 Vulcan for lander to NRHO. 2 with drop tanks and residuals? Initial ops need some refilling because the lander does LOI with it's own props?

[kerbiloid]

9 hours ago, mikegarrison said:

Pretty typical when exploring a new place. At first you just leave your old trash anywhere you drop it. Only much later do people start to say, "maybe we shouldn't be trashing this place up like this...."

Not a ninja. :(

[Nightside]

17 hours ago, mikegarrison said:

Pretty typical when exploring a new place. At first you just leave your old trash anywhere you drop it. Only much later do people start to say, "maybe we shouldn't be trashing this place up like this...."

Unless that trash becomes historical -then its "maybe we shouldn't be disturbing this trash heap."

[tater]

31 minutes ago, Nightside said:

Unless that trash becomes historical -then its "maybe we shouldn't be disturbing this trash heap."

Then it's a "midden."

 

[StrandedonEarth]

3 hours ago, Nightside said:

Unless that trash becomes historical -then its "maybe we shouldn't be disturbing this trash heap."

I’d prefer to think of it as a “recycling depot “

[tater]

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/08/19/dynetics-racing-against-spacex-and-blue-origin-in-nasas-hls-program.html?__twitter_impression=true

 

[RCgothic]

"The company's spacecraft is formally known as the "Autonomous Logistics Platform for All-Moon Cargo Access," or more simply: ALPACA."

Not sure whether that's an awful acronym or actually quite brilliant.

[cubinator]

9 hours ago, RCgothic said:

"The company's spacecraft is formally known as the "Autonomous Logistics Platform for All-Moon Cargo Access," or more simply: ALPACA."

Not sure whether that's an awful acronym or actually quite brilliant.

I like it!

[tater]

I like it as well.

Reminds me of

https://www.retrogames.cz/play_1263-NES.php?language=EN

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M.U.L.E.

 

[lemon cup]

New interview from The Angry Astronaut with the Dynetics HLS Payload Manager:

https://youtu.be/6HbrCBRhykE

[Stone Blue]

On 10/4/2020 at 9:12 PM, tater said:

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/08/19/dynetics-racing-against-spacex-and-blue-origin-in-nasas-hls-program.html?__twitter_impression=true

 

Wait... Wot??....
 

Quote

He imagines ALPACA carrying a wide variety of cargo up and down, ***including habitats and pressurized rovers.***

based on the current design, I would assume this would have to be a signifigantly different "variant"?
How the heck would you attach anything like habs or big rovers, to the current design? vOv

Idk... you could mebbe add an airlock/frame on one or both ends of the central "tube", and attach them side-by-side...

but then, IMHO, you would just end up with this :

 

Edited October 17, 2020 by Stone Blue

[cubinator]

1 hour ago, Stone Blue said:

How the heck would you attach anything like habs or big rovers, to the current design? vOv

You would put something in the middle besides the crew compartment.

[Silavite]

Dynetics completes their continuation review. There's also a strong implication they're using methalox.

https://www.dynetics.com/newsroom/news/2021/dynetics-achieves-critical-nasa-milestone-and-delivers-key-data-on-lunar-lander-program

[tater]

There have been some people saying they dumped the drop tanks in favor of the 2 tanks, but larger.

[RCgothic]

Without the drop tanks it becomes single stage, which would be huge?

[Barzon]

It's not that big without the drop tanks, if the JSC design is accurate - which I presume it would be.