[1.12.x] SystemHeat - a replacement for the CoreHeat system (September 1)

[Brigadier]

6 hours ago, AmanitaVerna said:

If you want the full KSP.log, let me know - I've made a copy of it so it doesn't get overwritten. (I don't see a button on the post interface to upload it, and I don't remember what I did last time, since it's been months since I last posted here.)

It's usually a good idea to post a link to the complete log.  It's possible NFEs and crashes upstream could cause or set the stage for further errors.  Check the link in my sig block for guidance on how to post your log, i.e. save it to a file sharing service, then post the link here.

[AmanitaVerna]

Alright. Here's the player.log file, like your link suggests (and thanks for the suggestion and link): https://www.dropbox.com/s/0mnntp1osmf0k9f/2022-03-09 Player.log?dl=0

There are some exceptions prior to the ones in my previous post, which are from KerbalismFFT and from DeepFreeze (all reported previously), but they happen while the game is loading, and happen every time, and I've never noticed them causing any issues (so far, but I'm assuming anything they broke would be broken every time I ran KSP). Also the steamworks one, which I had forgotten about, because KSP run from CKAN doesn't load Steamworks, for some reason.

Edited March 10, 2022 by AmanitaVerna

[pjt36]

How does one reduce the "Loop Temperature" to be something below the atmospheric ambient temperature.

I've searched but cannot find an answer.

In this situation, a modification (Galaxies Unbound) adds a planet (Syro) where the ambient temperature is 1044K ... this presents some unique challenges as for example an Engineer can only work outside for about 2 minutes before exploding. ... Another issue is that a surface harvester which has an ideal working temperature of 500K goes into emergency shutdown when you try to start it on Syro.  How do I cool this device to be something near its proper working temperature? ... Is this even possible?

[mrgreco]

any chance of tweek scaling ??????

[darthgently]

9 hours ago, mrgreco said:

any chance of tweek scaling ??????

Probably not at this time as there are KSP issues that are throwing TweakScale some curves and the combined issues are hard to accommodate in some other mods

[Lisias]

9 hours ago, mrgreco said:

any chance of tweek scaling ??????

Work In Progress! But I need to ask you for some patience...

Keep an eye on the TweakScale Companion Program Thread.

4 minutes ago, darthgently said:

Probably not at this time as there are KSP issues that are throwing TweakScale some curves and the combined issues are hard to accommodate in some other mods

Yep.

But the problem is affecting everybody.  TweakScale is the one yelling about it instead of burying its head on the sand and allowing the user to get screwed.

These pesky problemas can hit anybody, anywhere, at any time. Removing TweakScale only makes things worse, because the problem will so affect someone else (if not affecting already) but no one will be notified about.

[mrgreco]

understood, and thax guys for the getting back to me

[dlrk]

Any known issues with SH or the NTR reactor extra? Want to use these, but want to check first

[mrgreco]

i got an idea, how about cooling tanks that cool the system and you have a pump to pump fluid thro the loops  and the more  parts added to a loop drains that cooling tanks faster and loop,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

and have this on one nice big interface annnnnnnndd how about a ship multyinterface  like a big tablet for each ship,,,,, i like the whole loop cooling idea and i like being in full lovely personrol of my ship, but when you have a 350 part vessel no way take me hours , or you can add a type of system/heat/monitor/automated that will take the most heated loop and add it to an other loop thats the coldest and farthest away and temps you set ,, it just follows, just some small ideas 

[JadeOfMaar]

13 hours ago, mrgreco said:

i got an idea, how about cooling tanks that cool the system and you have a pump to pump fluid thro the loops  and the more  parts added to a loop drains that cooling tanks faster and loop,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

The hot fluid that's pumped through the radiators is the coolant, though. It's just not "cool" anymore when there's a lot of heat to carry to the radiator. There are 3 very different parts that provide for added coolant capacity to your ship:

• The radial cooling tank (this adds a lot of volume to your loop. It doesn't hold a resource)
• The heat exchanger ("Exchanger." It does not magically remove heat)
• The heat sink (this tanks heat within itself to buffer your radiators. Does not remove the need for radiators)

The most fitting answer for your request is "(If you already use these then) get bigger ones."

13 hours ago, mrgreco said:

or you can add a type of system/heat/monitor/automated that will take the most heated loop and add it to an other loop thats the coldest and farthest away and temps you set ,, it just follows, just some small ideas 

Bad idea. The point of the loops is that you have a closed system each for things that operate in certain different temperature ranges. Logically, if you just casually assimilate a low temperature loop to buffer the higher temp one, you would overpower or ruin everything that depends on that lower loop.

Finally, if you add too much automation to a certain mod then you reach the point where the game plays itself.

[mrgreco]

thank you so much guys on the feed back

[incompletemachine]

Hi there; i gotta ask: how will this interact with KSP interstellar? i asked over on the reddit, but i figured its probably better to come straight to the source if i want accurate information XD

[JadeOfMaar]

On 4/19/2022 at 5:07 PM, incompletemachine said:

Hi there; i gotta ask: how will this interact with KSP interstellar?

Hi there. Sadly you should expect either direct conflict (and a very unpleasant experience) between the plugins or expect that you will merely have to do pointless repeat work of tending to two parallel systems that do nearly the same thing and have nothing to do with one another. There's no good or no point (as far as I can imagine) of installing these two together.

[incompletemachine]

8 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

Hi there. Sadly you should expect either direct conflict (and a very unpleasant experience) between the plugins or expect that you will merely have to do pointless repeat work of tending to two parallel systems that do nearly the same thing and have nothing to do with one another. There's no good or no point (as far as I can imagine) of installing these two together.

Ah of course. I guess my dreams of interstellar flight may have to wait till KSP 2, or untill i learn enough about modding to mess with plugins for myself.  i could reinstall blueshift

Edited April 21, 2022 by incompletemachine

[JadeOfMaar]

7 hours ago, incompletemachine said:

I guess my dreams of interstellar flight may have to wait till KSP 2

I don't think so. Why should a mod for thermal management hold you back from doing what you want to do?

[incompletemachine]

4 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

I don't think so. Why should a mod for thermal management hold you back from doing what you want to do?

well, it doesnt really i admit it. it just means that, for example, i cant run all of nertea's beautiful engines alongside the KSPIE ones since his engines rely on this heat manager.  I have to pick one or the other, though in fairness i could just operate the two seperately on different build/designs. my ideal ksp experience would be one in which i can basicly track the growth of kerbalkind in a granular way from early rockets to interstellar flight (including hypotheticals like warp drives or wormhole gates), and simulating things like colonies, life support and radiation . if we're really daydreaming, id love to see most of the models in it done to Nertea's level of detail (with waterfall plumes) & his implementation of Electricals and SystemHeat (which i honestly think is more effective and streamlined).

I can get parts of this ideal experience using various combinations of mods, but it seems like id have to start creating my own patches & plugins/editing models (assuming that id get permission from the various authors) to get it exactly. Id be willing to try, but id be starting from zero experience XD. Fortunately KSP II looks like it will be a much closer to 'ideal', and i hope it has mod support to fill in any gaps the main team has to leave bc of time and budget constraints...but im also impatient and don't want to have to wait for it to come out  XD. 

[dlrk]

Is it normal for radiators to show at 1125K when extended even if there is no "load" on the radiator?

[Axelord FTW]

The radiators should also display legacy/stock values. Is that what you're seeing?

In other news, I believe I have, for the very first time, actually made good use of the exchangers! I'd never gotten them to work (i.e. I r 2 dum) but for once I saved on parts count or mass and the loops are stable! I've made interstellar ships, for goodness sake, but couldn't figure out those swarthy little loopknobs.
Two radiators, for four distinct loops! It's also quite poggers, as kids say. I shall strive to incorporate this new mastery into future designs!

On a more serious note, I can't be the only one who has had troubles getting everything squared up. Radiators are pretty straightforward. Big numbers better, for the most part. Coolant tanks are so situational I can't think of a situation where they would be better to use than just using more radiators. Exchangers... Well, as you can see I only just managed to figure them out, even though I'm been playing with System Heat for a good while now.

Edited May 5, 2022 by Axelord FTW

[Cuj0]

Greetings Programs,

I love this mod. I was bored on guessing for my radiators configs. Thanks a lot for that work.

I have a question : I play with USI/MKS but without Life Support and all the parts from MKS are not recognized by loops. Does a patch exist for that please ?

[Nertea]

On 5/4/2022 at 11:46 PM, Axelord FTW said:

The radiators should also display legacy/stock values. Is that what you're seeing?

In other news, I believe I have, for the very first time, actually made good use of the exchangers! I'd never gotten them to work (i.e. I r 2 dum) but for once I saved on parts count or mass and the loops are stable! I've made interstellar ships, for goodness sake, but couldn't figure out those swarthy little loopknobs.
Two radiators, for four distinct loops! It's also quite poggers, as kids say. I shall strive to incorporate this new mastery into future designs!

On a more serious note, I can't be the only one who has had troubles getting everything squared up. Radiators are pretty straightforward. Big numbers better, for the most part. Coolant tanks are so situational I can't think of a situation where they would be better to use than just using more radiators. Exchangers... Well, as you can see I only just managed to figure them out, even though I'm been playing with System Heat for a good while now.

Nice! Yeah I can think of only a few very advanced cases where this would actually be useful. I can't remember who asked for it, but in hindsight it was a lot of work for a very minor feature. But it looks sweet!

On 5/9/2022 at 8:31 AM, Cuj0 said:

Greetings Programs,

I love this mod. I was bored on guessing for my radiators configs. Thanks a lot for that work.

I have a question : I play with USI/MKS but without Life Support and all the parts from MKS are not recognized by loops. Does a patch exist for that please ?

There's no patch, as I don't understand MKS mechanics enough to create such a one.

On 4/24/2022 at 4:17 PM, dlrk said:

Is it normal for radiators to show at 1125K when extended even if there is no "load" on the radiator?

I believe radiator temp status is actually current loop temperature. Can't recall off the top of my head what that would show as with no load on the loop.

[Cuj0]

On 5/14/2022 at 5:11 AM, Nertea said:

There's no patch, as I don't understand MKS mechanics enough to create such a one.

OK, thanks to you for replying.

[AtomicRocketBooster]

On 5/9/2022 at 11:31 AM, Cuj0 said:

I have a question : I play with USI/MKS but without Life Support and all the parts from MKS are not recognized by loops. Does a patch exist for that please ?

Earlier in this thread, I posted a patch that works mechanically - however I haven't play tested it much (and actually haven't played much KSP at all recently) so the balance could be wonky.

If you're interested in testing it, it could definitely use some eyes

EDIT: Here's a link to the comment

Edited May 24, 2022 by AtomicRocketBooster
Add link

[Grimmas]

@AtomicRocketBooster I'll give this a try. I was actually in the middle of writing my own USI SystemHeat patch today but then I saw this. Though I started with the USI Reactors from the Reactor Pack, which you do not cover, so I still have some work to do

One thing, FOR[X] will always trigger as it forces MM to define the keywords used if they do not yet exist. For a compatibility patch like this you should use NEEDS[X] instead.

Edit: I've uploaded a SystemHeat patch for USI ReactorPack and FTT, which can be found here.  Seems to work fine but if anyone sees issues please let me know. This covers the remaining USI reactors and the StarLifter reactor (which strangely wasn't generating any heat before). The only things not covered are the PackRat RTGs and the ART Jaw.

Edited May 25, 2022 by Grimmas

[Cuj0]

I'll try that.

I don't play often lately i'll keep you posted after trying.

 

Thanks for the anwers

[Cuj0]

@AtomicRocketBooster 

Sorry but your patch doesn't work for me.

@Grimmas

Your patchs work fine except for USI drills,USI Ranger parts and USI Tundra parts.

Your patch for wheels work fine also but i have a fun bug where one of the wheel (the right front one for me) turn at 360 when i brake but with no effect on the rover itself (purely graphic, i think).