Most "powerful" sci-fi weapon possible?

[Just Jim]

  On 5/27/2021 at 3:09 PM, StrandedonEarth said:

It needs some really hot tea inside...

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No, I'm pretty sure it was empty...

I hope the moderators don't get mad at me for this

Warning...  This contains some teacup related sci-fi violence

 

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[Vanamonde]

  On 5/27/2021 at 6:09 PM, SpaceFace545 said:

Also can this thread get moved into the forum lounge? @Vanamonde

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Looks like OP is interested in feasible weapons, so the science sub seems like a good place for it. 

[RCgothic]

If you're sticking with known physics, either a relativistic kinetic impactor, some sort of antimatter warhead, or a maybe a cleverly engineered virus bioweapon.

Edited May 27, 2021 by RCgothic

[SOXBLOX]

About vacuum collapse...

If the universe were infinite, there would be an infinite number of locations for vacuum collapse to occur at, right? So, shouldn't it have occurred somewhere, and the wave of death is sweeping towards us already? Or is an infinite universe not infinite enough?

  On 5/27/2021 at 8:25 PM, RCgothic said:

or a maybe a cleverly engineered virus bioweapon.

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We know all about that one, don't we. LOL

[RCgothic]

  On 5/27/2021 at 8:26 PM, SOXBLOX said:

About vacuum collapse...

If the universe were infinite, there would be an infinite number of locations for vacuum collapse to occur at, right? So, shouldn't it have occurred somewhere, and the wave of death is sweeping towards us already? Or is an infinite universe not infinite enough?

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There are different sizes of infinity. Not sure if they're the same magnitude in these instances.

[kerbiloid]

I still can't get if this thread is about a weapon or about mass suicide?

Is the intention to kill and survive or to get gone with music?

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If the latter - just a cat washing.

 

[StrandedonEarth]

  On 5/27/2021 at 7:42 PM, Just Jim said:

No, I'm pretty sure it was empty...

I hope the moderators don't get mad at me for this

Warning...  This contains some teacup related sci-fi violence

 

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Ah yes. My thought tracked more towards the Infinite Improbability Drive

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Discovery

The principle of generating small amounts of finite improbability by simply hooking the logic circuits of a Bambleweeny 57 Sub-Meson Brain to an atomic vector plotter suspended in a strong Brownian Motion producer (say a nice hot cup of tea) were well understood. It is said, by the Guide, that such generators were often used to break the ice at parties by making all the molecules in the hostess's undergarments leap simultaneously one foot to the left, in accordance with the theory of indeterminacy.

Many respectable physicists said that they weren't going to stand for this, partly because it was a debasement of science, but mostly because they didn't get invited to those sorts of parties.

The physicists encountered repeated failures while trying to construct a machine which could generate the infinite improbability field needed to flip a spaceship across the mind-paralyzing distances between the farthest stars. They eventually announced that such a machine was virtually impossible.

Then, one day, a student who had been left to sweep up after a particularly unsuccessful party found himself reasoning in this way: If he thought to himself, such a machine is a virtual impossibility, it must have finite improbability. So all I have to do in order to make one is to work out how exactly improbable it is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give it a fresh cup of really hot tea... and turn it on!

He did this and managed to create the long sought after golden Infinite Improbability generator out of thin air.

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Since such a device, if unshielded, can turn missiles into such things as sperm whales and bowls of petunias, the catastrophic improbabilities it could generate would be endless

[Just Jim]

  On 5/27/2021 at 10:14 PM, StrandedonEarth said:

Since such a device, if unshielded, can turn missiles into such things as sperm whales and bowls of petunias, the catastrophic improbabilities it could generate would be endless

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And quite probably hilarious!  

[kerbiloid]

Probaballistics.
A discipline about how to aim your probability generator.

Probablessibility theory.
A discipline about how to manage the probability of events by blessings.

Desired value.
The version of the "expected value", whose probability is increased by the observer's will, 

Mathematical or probabilistic bet.
The value of the scientist's expectation of the particular result.

Cash-function.
Mathematically expressed dependency between the particular result of a mathematical operation and applied money.

Mathematical oath.
A mathematical axiom based on the mathematician's scientific reputation.

General sampling.
A descendant of a sample provided by a General.
Depending on the General rank, there can be:
Full General Sampling,
Major General Sampling,
Colonel General Sampling,
Lieutenant  General Sampling,
Brigadier General Sampling,
and others.

In the maritime applications is traditionally renamed to Admiral Sampling (from "admire").

Upd.

Werevalue
A value changing its nature or representation.

Statistical vampirism
A phenomenon, when of a particular outcome probability grows, while the alternative outcomes get less probable.

Mathematical disfunction.
The opposite to the mathematical function. A mathematical expression of non-existing dependency.

Higher mathematics.
(from "higher price mathematics")
The true, professional mathematics, paid better than "lower" or "poor" mathematics.

Pseudo-random number. 
A value which others consider as random, while the banking scientist knows it isn't.

Possibility theory.
The applied version of the Probability theory, when you know not just what's probable, but also what's possible.

Edited May 28, 2021 by kerbiloid

[kerbiloid]

_(multipost)

Edited May 28, 2021 by kerbiloid

[MKI]

  On 5/27/2021 at 8:45 PM, kerbiloid said:

I still can't get if this thread is about a weapon or about mass suicide?

Is the intention to kill and survive or to get gone with music?

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If the latter - just a cat washing.

 

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I'd say a weapon that is so powerful you also end up probably killing yourself is still on the table. Same way nuclear deterrence would be on the table even though it would result in mutually assured destruction (MAD). 

It's also worth assuming that if your advanced enough to possibly end the universe, you might have figured out a way to escape its demise. Or at least use the existence of such a weapon as deterrent.

 

More related Death's End Spoiler (this is will more or less spoil the end of the previous book, Dark Forest):

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Death's End more or less starts with humanity being able to fend off the Trisolaris invasion though an awesome gamble by the "Swordholder" from who essentially holds both humans and Trisolaris "hostage" by holding a trigger/deadman's switch for the "Dark Forest Deterrent" which essentially would draw the galaxies most powerful civilizations attention who would promptly wipe out both systems, using these "advance physics warping/changing weapons". This deterrent effectively ends the war as Trisolaris doesn't want to invade, trigger the deterrent and get BOTH solar systems destroyed.

 

So the invasion ends by a single guy putting a literal gun to his head and threatening to not only kill himself and trigger his deadman switch but also get EVERYONE KILLED. Its incredible badS, to the point Trisolaris respects the peace for decades as he continues to hold the trigger on a sword-hilt, hence the title "The Swordholder".

In the series, the most powerful weapon available isn't even the "system destroying weapon", but rather the knowledge the weapon even exists and would be used automatically once your known to exist. The reason why its used automatically is the key philosophy of the series that is less about sci-fi and more philosophical and based on a few things that are true in the book's universe. Namely, there being aliens everywhere, but no one really being obvious about it. A detailed discussion on that topic is for another day however

 

 

  

  On 5/27/2021 at 8:17 PM, Vanamonde said:

Looks like OP is interested in feasible weapons, so the science sub seems like a good place for it. 

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Yea, so something like "The Force" might be Vader's weapon of choice, but not scientific enough to be considered

Edited May 28, 2021 by MKI

[Just Jim]

  On 5/28/2021 at 10:38 PM, MKI said:

I'd say a weapon that is so powerful you also end up probably killing yourself is still on the table. Same way nuclear deterrence would be on the table even though it would result in mutually assured destruction (MAD). 

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I absolutely agree... simple because that was quite literally what my hands down favorite TOS episode ever was all about

The Doomsday Machine
 

 

 

[FleshJeb]

Ever wanted to use a cosmic string as a planet-blender?

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Invent intelligent biological nanomachines that multiply in such quantities that they can alter the universe by observing it?

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Or just have mysterious planet-sized space clouds that travel through the galaxy in waves and annihilate anything that looks like a civilization?

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[kerbiloid]

Will anybody mention the strangelet Kessler effect?

[Space Kerbalisation Tech]

i suppose if you somehow found a way to "misuse" the earth engine from the wandering earth (https://polycount.com/discussion/218237/wandering-earth-concept-art-by-utopies-selectives), you could make a pretty powerful weapon (at least for one that doesn't use absurdly hypothetical concepts such as vacuum decay or weaponising the laws of physics)

 

[Hannu2]

  On 5/27/2021 at 8:26 PM, SOXBLOX said:

About vacuum collapse...

If the universe were infinite, there would be an infinite number of locations for vacuum collapse to occur at, right? So, shouldn't it have occurred somewhere, and the wave of death is sweeping towards us already? Or is an infinite universe not infinite enough?

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If the universe is expanding as it seems to be, only finite part of it can interact due to finite light speed. Anything beyond observable universe can never affect to us. But even extremely small deviations (several orders on magnitude lower than observation limits) of known natural laws become very significant in such extreme extrapolations. Predictions to final fate of the universe are very speculative, even if they are based on best known science.

  On 5/27/2021 at 8:45 PM, kerbiloid said:

I still can't get if this thread is about a weapon or about mass suicide?

Is the intention to kill and survive or to get gone with music?

  Reveal hidden contents

If the latter - just a cat washing.

 

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Mass suicide works well as defensive weapon much like intercontinental nuclear missiles have worked decades on Earth. No one has realistic possibility to win in such situation. But if civilizations develop and many of them get ability to trigger collapse, risk that crazy dictator can launch it increases. It sounds that there will be work for action heroes in very far future.

[DDE]

  On 5/31/2021 at 9:27 AM, Hannu2 said:

Mass suicide works well as defensive weapon much like intercontinental nuclear missiles have worked decades on Earth. No one has realistic possibility to win in such situation. But if civilizations develop and many of them get ability to trigger collapse, risk that crazy dictator can launch it increases. It sounds that there will be work for action heroes in very far future.

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The crazy dictator cliche is problematic: you have to assume that someone devoid of pragmatism and self-preservation instinct has made it in the hyper-competitive environment of an authoritarian state, and is functional enough to run said state in a way that supports the program for the development and manufacture of nuclear weapons and delivery systems.

Simply put, from carpet-munching failed Austrian painters to Papa Doc himself, these guys are a lot saner than most give them credit for. There is at least a method to their madness - assuming it's not just you dismissing a different ideology as deviant thinking. In turn, one does wonder how democratically elected leaders would act under the effect of extreme mortality salience.

Importantly, this assumes that the above-mentioned barriers to entry remain high. One of the problems common in sci-fi is that complete misfits have access to spacecraft that can ram continents out of existence.

[radonek]

  On 5/29/2021 at 5:12 AM, kerbiloid said:

Will anybody mention the strangelet Kessler effect?

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As you wish:  

• Planet destruction: https://eldraeverse.com/2012/05/26/the-burning-of-litash-5/
• Star destruction: https://eldraeverse.com/2016/10/17/ultima-ratio-imperium-stellarum/

BTW how about information weaponry? Combat memetics, basilisk imagery, that kind of thing...

Edited May 31, 2021 by radonek

[kerbiloid]

  On 5/31/2021 at 9:27 AM, Hannu2 said:

Mass suicide works well as defensive weapon much like intercontinental nuclear missiles have worked decades on Earth. No one has realistic possibility to win in such situation.

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A popular opinion. Same popular as unproven.
The humanity has passed through wars with loss of  up to 1/3..1/2 of population in various countries.
The civilisation would fall into last XIX..early XX, and would need a century to restore.

The only reason of no nuclear war happened is that nobody wished such troubles very much.
But they would happen both with or without ICBM.

  On 5/31/2021 at 12:51 PM, radonek said:

BTW how about information weaponry? Combat memetics, basilisk imagery, that kind of thing...

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KSP. Kraken.

Edited May 31, 2021 by kerbiloid

[SOXBLOX]

  On 5/31/2021 at 12:51 PM, radonek said:

BTW how about information weaponry? Combat memetics, basilisk imagery, that kind of thing...

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This is totally utterly science fictional with no basis in reality...

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From Atomic Rockets. But I guess if your "delivery system" was of the proper scale, it could be super-effective. And it won't cause much or any material damage, leaving the enemy's industry intact, ready for you the victor to sweep in.

[kerbiloid]

Creepy gifs.

And screamers.

[DDE]

  On 5/31/2021 at 1:26 PM, SOXBLOX said:

From Atomic Rockets. But I guess if your "delivery system" was of the proper scale, it could be super-effective. And it won't cause much or any material damage, leaving the enemy's industry intact, ready for you the victor to sweep in.

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Sure, we don't know of overt cognitohazards or lethal memes, but in a more general sense? It's far from implausible to undermine a society by oroviding them with knowledge or technology. Besides, ideological warfare is just meme warfare.

There are arguments that any SETI findings should be destroyed, and if you realise that ideas themselves can be harmful, well, I guess His Holy Inquisition has their work cut out for them.

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1802.02180.pdf?from=article_link

[kerbiloid]

  On 5/31/2021 at 9:41 PM, DDE said:

It's far from implausible to undermine a society by oroviding them with knowledge or technology. Besides, ideological warfare is just meme warfare.

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The games that changed my world and the value system:

Major:

• HalfLife 1
• Ultima VIII: Pagan
• Arcanum Of Steamworks And Magic Obscura
• KSP

Minor:

• Duke Nukem 3d/Heretic/Hexen/Quake 1/Blood 1
• Little Big  Adventure 1/2
• Fallout 3/NV
• Allods 1/2/3
• Tomb Raider 3

 

It works!
 

  On 5/31/2021 at 9:41 PM, DDE said:

There are arguments that any SETI findings should be destroyed, and if you realise that ideas themselves can be harmful, well, I guess His Holy Inquisition has their work cut out for them.

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One of my beloved books, "Роза и червь" (Р. Ибатуллин) /  "Rose and Worm" (R. Ibatullin) is all about it.

Edited May 31, 2021 by kerbiloid

[DDE]

  On 5/31/2021 at 9:58 PM, kerbiloid said:

KSP

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The universe will never be the same for me, too.

[FleshJeb]

  On 5/31/2021 at 10:01 AM, DDE said:

dismissing a different ideology as deviant thinking

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You've unknowingly provided me with my answer to this thread, so I'll lay out my process:

First we have to ask the question, what is the purpose of weapons? In the large-scale context of this thread we might say that they serve to defend a civilization/a society/an ideology or collection of ideologies.

Secondly, science fiction's primary focus is ultimately sociology--At least according to the multiple and varied analyses I've read of the genre. So a discussion of sociology is fundamentally "sci-fi".

Civilizations, societies, and ideologies seek to endure, so it stands to reason that those which are not long-term self-sustaining must be defined as deviant. For something to be self-sustaining it must have the ability to correct its flaws, to self-examine. DNA does this. Science does this in the pursuit of knowledge, which is why it's generally accepted that the methodology and practice of science will be durable and lasting.

What do authoritarian leaders do with when confronted with criticism? They crush it, they seek scapegoats and enemies, they deny fault and place blame. These are considered defining, quintessential characteristics. Authoritarianism as a system is literally not "fault-tolerant". Ergo, it is a deviant system.

Some of the most effective tools for societal critique and examination are satire and parody. Their purpose is to hold a mirror up and make people think (and feel), "Wow, what the heck are we doing?" They provide the chance to change direction. (Not coincidentally, authoritarian regimes are not known for their lasting contributions to these arts, although they are very frequently made the objects of them.)

So, when it comes to societal defense, the most dangerous weapon in the universe might just be comedy.

Edited June 1, 2021 by FleshJeb