This game is dead?

[Pthigrivi]

9 hours ago, sunnypunny said:

This narrative that "gamers are fickle" only serves corporate interests, just like the people that promote it. 

The thing is though that reflexive, unreasonable criticism isn't necessarily persuasive either. What happened with Star Theory couldn't have been fun for anyone involved, but not a one of us knows the reality of that situation. None of us were there or knows anything really, and even when people are in the mix these kinds of hard business deals are very easy to misinterpret. I've been there, and keeping your wits and honor about you is really hard when pride and careers and livelihoods are on the line. Its made me appreciate how easy it is for people outside to make assumptions. Given that I think extending the benefit of the doubt to everyone who's still involved is perfectly warranted. They've certainly shown great passion for getting all these details right and all in all we have gotten a lot of substantial information about what they have planned.

Approaching situations in good faith isn't something thats incumbent on others; it should be the default attitude from all of us. The more you and I and everyone else can act as honest brokers the more folks will be willing to take both criticism and praise seriously. 

Edited March 28, 2022 by Pthigrivi

[sunnypunny]

1 hour ago, Pthigrivi said:

What happened with Star Theory

who cares? game still sitting there like a dead fish in a pile on some faraway trawler. i'm still sitting here wondering when i get to eat. better hope a storm doesn't come and knock it back into the sea.

[kerbiloid]

5 hours ago, Pthigrivi said:

we have gotten a lot of substantial information about what they have planned.

Like we had gotten information about the pPropellium, Nitronite, Blutonium, etc in their time...

Spoiler

 

P.S.
Still thinking they faced either unrealistic hardware/network requirements, or market calm.

P.P.S.
GP2 

[razark]

On 3/26/2022 at 10:02 PM, sunnypunny said:

Why shut out the original dev so that he only even learnt about a sequel along with the rest of us?

I used to own a truck.  I sold it to someone else.  That person doesn't have to inform me about anything to do with the truck or ask my permission, because it belongs to them now, and not me.

 

Right now, I don't have KSP2.  A year from now, I might have KSP2, or I might not.  Being told any details at all will not make KSP2 arrive a moment sooner.  The two options are life continues as it is and, or I get to play KSP2.  Not having KSP2 does not make my life any worse than it already is.

[Rudolf Meier]

30 minutes ago, razark said:

I used to own a truck.  I sold it to someone else.  That person doesn't have to inform me about anything to do with the truck or ask my permission, because it belongs to them now, and not me.

 

Right now, I don't have KSP2.  A year from now, I might have KSP2, or I might not.  Being told any details at all will not make KSP2 arrive a moment sooner.  The two options are life continues as it is and, or I get to play KSP2.  Not having KSP2 does not make my life any worse than it already is.

no... I agree with sunnypunny... they are destroying the community and the fire that burned for KSP

when fans of KSP learn how to live without KSP, then they will not return to KSP2... that's just normal human behavior... and those who return will expect a really huge experience... if they don't get that, they will not accept the new game... not even if it's 3 time better than the old game... they will expect a 10 times better game...

[linuxgurugamer]

21 minutes ago, Rudolf Meier said:

no... I agree with sunnypunny... they are destroying the community and the fire that burned for KSP

when fans of KSP learn how to live without KSP, then they will not return to KSP2... that's just normal human behavior... and those who return will expect a really huge experience... if they don't get that, they will not accept the new game... not even if it's 3 time better than the old game... they will expect a 10 times better game...

There are plenty of games out there which defy that.  I'm not saying it won't happen, but there are enough games which had long delays between releases and were still huge successes.

[Pthigrivi]

7 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

Like we had gotten information about the pPropellium, Nitronite, Blutonium, etc in their time...

Well right, and they certainly never got to the point of building models for processors and reactors and deep surface scanners for prospecting or off-world VABs and orbital shipyards and all the things we've already seen from KSP2's development. I think it's safe to say they're pretty far along at this point and there's exactly zero reason to get all worked up and panicky. 

[tater]

KSP2 is dead to me, no Mac version. I have a PC, but I play KSP on my Mac, won't buy KSP2 for PC. I bought all the add-ons for KSP simply to support KSP, not because I needed or wanted them (mods already gave me what I wanted).

Throwing the Mac/Linux people under the bus might make sense, but there ya go. Course having a Mac version right now would mean also having an iOS version into the bargain.

[linuxgurugamer]

19 minutes ago, tater said:

KSP2 is dead to me, no Mac version. I have a PC, but I play KSP on my Mac, won't buy KSP2 for PC. I bought all the add-ons for KSP simply to support KSP, not because I needed or wanted them (mods already gave me what I wanted).

Throwing the Mac/Linux people under the bus might make sense, but there ya go. Course having a Mac version right now would mean also having an iOS version into the bargain.

Problem with Mac is the change of CPU from Intel to M1.  It really all depends on what Unity will be supporting.

It would be a shame if the Mac version is dropped, Linux as well although the Linux market is so small it may not be worth supporting in and of itself, but they may have  other reasons to support Linux

[Pthigrivi]

6 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Problem with Mac is the change of CPU from Intel to M1.  It really all depends on what Unity will be supporting.

It would be a shame if the Mac version is dropped, Linux as well although the Linux market is so small it may not be worth supporting in and of itself, but they may have  other reasons to support Linux

I'll be real sad if we don't see a Mac version. Im hoping it works on Bootcamp or Parallels at least. 

[linuxgurugamer]

Just now, Pthigrivi said:

I'll be real sad if we don't see a Mac version. Im hoping it works on Bootcamp or Parallels at least. 

I don't know of Bootcamp or Parallels will work on an M1-based system, anyone else know?

[tater]

5 minutes ago, Pthigrivi said:

I'll be real sad if we don't see a Mac version. Im hoping it works on Bootcamp or Parallels at least. 

Yeah, I won't be doing that.

Again, I even have a PC. It's a native Mac version or I don't support it.

16 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Problem with Mac is the change of CPU from Intel to M1.  It really all depends on what Unity will be supporting.

This is also a feature, as it's instantly also a game for an iPhone or iPad into the bargain if done for Mac.

[Pthigrivi]

4 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

I don't know of Bootcamp or Parallels will work on an M1-based system, anyone else know?

I'd assume so. I've got a macbook from last year that's still i7, but we run most of the machines in our office on Parallels for Autocad and I use it at home for a few games that were never ported. It can be janky sometimes, but if there's a way to play the game on my machine I'll be happy. 

[sunnypunny]

  

1 hour ago, Pthigrivi said:

Well right, and they certainly never got to the point of building models for processors and reactors and deep surface scanners for prospecting or off-world VABs and orbital shipyards and all the things we've already seen from KSP2's development. I think it's safe to say they're pretty far along at this point and there's exactly zero reason to get all worked up and panicky. 

Nobody here is getting "all worked up and panicky," and yet people continue to dismiss the arguments of critics with this narrative. It really makes me wonder why they're so invested in defending the repeated failures of an unchecked, greedy corporation with a near total monopoly on this niche. 

1 hour ago, linuxgurugamer said:

There are plenty of games out there which defy that.  I'm not saying it won't happen, but there are enough games which had long delays between releases and were still huge successes.

Reducing the problems discussed in this thread to mere "long delays" is also inaccurate. As the OP pointed out, they claimed to be 6 months away from release 2 years ago, and nothing they've done since has addressed this. Covid delays? Unlikely - pretty much everyone in IT can easily work from home (and probably prefer it as well).

Scandal after scandal and yet most people here simply want to sweep them all under the rug and pretend that everything is all sparkles and rainbows.

[tater]

As to the topic of this post, I literally have no idea what the thread is about, I don;t even read the dev notes, as soon as they said no Mac version, I stopped paying attention to it at all—it's delayed? I literally know zero about the state of KSP2.

I looked at the KSP2 forum threads just now... all kinds of ideas I would have suggested for things it should do (I'm pretty opinionated on that), particularly career modes... but no need, since I won't see it anyway.

[sunnypunny]

17 minutes ago, tater said:

As to the topic of this post, I literally have no idea what the thread is about, I don;t even read the dev notes, as soon as they said no Mac version, I stopped paying attention to it at all—it's delayed? I literally know zero about the state of KSP2.

I looked at the KSP2 forum threads just now... all kinds of ideas I would have suggested for things it should do (I'm pretty opinionated on that), particularly career modes... but no need, since I won't see it anyway.

It's barely worth paying attention to any more anyway. They milked the interest out of KSP fans for as long as they could, now they're just dragging their feet, throwing out the occasional scrap of info and seeing how long they can get away with it while the elite guard of Pollyanna defend them to the death.

KSP2 looking more and more like Ice Juice in Billions - "stillborn" 

[gussi111]

41 minutes ago, sunnypunny said:

  

Nobody here is getting "all worked up and panicky," and yet people continue to dismiss the arguments of critics with this narrative. It really makes me wonder why they're so invested in defending the repeated failures of an unchecked, greedy corporation with a near total monopoly on this niche. 

Reducing the problems discussed in this thread to mere "long delays" is also inaccurate. As the OP pointed out, they claimed to be 6 months away from release 2 years ago, and nothing they've done since has addressed this. Covid delays? Unlikely - pretty much everyone in IT can easily work from home (and probably prefer it as well).

Scandal after scandal and yet most people here simply want to sweep them all under the rug and pretend that everything is all sparkles and rainbows.

Agreed.

[tater]

Too bad.

Seems to me that addressing foundational problems like the scale issue—per the initial compute limitations—and maybe some possible graphical improvements, and "quality of life" stuff for making moding easier, etc might have been the way to go. Then also the most critical bit, rethinking career mode would have been less of a "start from scratch" method. But what do I know.

[linuxgurugamer]

1 hour ago, tater said:

As to the topic of this post, I literally have no idea what the thread is about, I don;t even read the dev notes, as soon as they said no Mac version, I stopped paying attention to it at all—it's delayed? I literally know zero about the state of KSP2.

I haven't been able to find a post where they said no Mac version, can you post the link?

1 hour ago, sunnypunny said:

Reducing the problems discussed in this thread to mere "long delays" is also inaccurate. As the OP pointed out, they claimed to be 6 months away from release 2 years ago, and nothing they've done since has addressed this. Covid delays? Unlikely - pretty much everyone in IT can easily work from home (and probably prefer it as well).

Delays in game development are fairly common.

And working at home, I can attest that I've been doing it for the past 3 years, and miss the interaction between people and teams.  Zoom and Slack meetings are fine, but you still miss out.  Personally, I look for a mix of in-office and at-home work. 

I realize I'm not going to change your mind, you have your opinion and are entitled to it.  So am I and others, belittling people because they don't agree with you is not helpful.

 

[tater]

20 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

I haven't been able to find a post where they said no Mac version, can you post the link?

The trailer (initial) said PC/console. The current page https://www.kerbalspaceprogram.com/game/kerbal-space-program-2/

has "PC Game, PS4, and Xbox One" at the bottom of the page, scroll down.

So yeah, it's dead to me—and I have both a PC, and a PS4 in the house.

Edited March 28, 2022 by tater

[linuxgurugamer]

4 minutes ago, tater said:

The trailer (initial) said PC/console. The current page https://www.kerbalspaceprogram.com/game/kerbal-space-program-2/

has "PC Game, PS4, and Xbox One" at the bottom of the page, scroll down.

So yeah, it's dead to me—and I have both a PC, and a PS4 in the house.

Interesting, I wasn't aware of that

[razark]

3 hours ago, Rudolf Meier said:

no... I agree with sunnypunny... they are destroying the community and the fire that burned for KSP

when fans of KSP learn how to live without KSP, then they will not return to KSP2... that's just normal human behavior... and those who return will expect a really huge experience... if they don't get that, they will not accept the new game... not even if it's 3 time better than the old game... they will expect a 10 times better game...

Ok, and?

The worst-case scenario here is that "video game that doesn't exist continues to not exist."  Hardly a catastrophe, unless you've already preordered and paid money for it.

[Rudolf Meier]

21 minutes ago, razark said:

Ok, and?

The worst-case scenario here is that "video game that doesn't exist continues to not exist."  Hardly a catastrophe, unless you've already preordered and paid money for it.

for me -> yes... for those creating the game -> massive loss of money... and, what I wanted to say with it was "in my opinion they shouldn't act like this, because it's a high risk to lose money"

[MechBFP]

24 minutes ago, Rudolf Meier said:

"in my opinion they shouldn't act like this, because it's a high risk to lose money"

 Where does that kind of entitlement come from anyway that you think the devs should act in any fashion other than how they want to? Are you a shareholder or something?

[Rudolf Meier]

11 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

 Where does that kind of entitlement come from anyway that you think the devs should act in any fashion other than how they want to? Are you a shareholder or something?

hey, it's just some "if I were them, I would do xy because of z" - thoughts... isn't it allowed to say that anymore?

I thought that's what people do all the time... e.g. when the talk about what NASA, SpaceX, Boeing, ESA and all the others do...

Edited March 28, 2022 by Rudolf Meier