Wait or learn more with ksp1?

[Volcomlancer]

I really only made it past a couple milestones on the original ksp on console; A couple mun landings and one time only had to put a runber band and time warp run a kerbal for 10 hours to meet up with the previous crew.  Landed on minmus and somehow got a flyby of eeloo once but couldn’t recreate it. Never able to get back from any of those but still i was happy with the progress. After all that the ksp2 news came and i stopped and thought it would be smart to learn more on ksp2. The release date is still kind of up in the air but i really want to play some ksp lol should i jump into ksp1 again (i play science mode) or wait out the dev period of ksp2?

[Volcomlancer]

I do have a pc now though to and will be using both for ksp2

[shdwlrd]

Keep playing KSP1. Orbital mechanics isn't going to change between KSP1 and KSP2. So keep playing and learning all you can.

[Turbo Ben]

I game on PC and console, KSP just seems like a game that should be played on PC. I bought a joystick and throttle just for KSP and wouldn't play any other way.

What I'm getting at is it might be worth looking at a PC copy of KSP. It's not expensive and steam usually have an Easter sale. It would also open you up to mods which can add another level to the game.

At the very least I'd learn how to do orbital encounters and rendezvous/docking. I can see this playing a much bigger role in KSP2 as we build massive orbital structures. The in game tutorials aren't great but you'll find loads of info here or on youtube if you get stuck.

 

[intelliCom]

2 hours ago, shdwlrd said:

Keep playing KSP1. Orbital mechanics isn't going to change between KSP1 and KSP2. So keep playing and learning all you can.

Might've missed the latest KSP 2 video. They're wanting to put in Brachistone trajectories.

That being said, KSP1 is the best training you can get for learning how to play KSP2. Don't worry if you don't master KSP1, KSP2 will offer really good tutorials for teaching people who are completely new to the game.

[darthgently]

32 minutes ago, intelliCom said:

Might've missed the latest KSP 2 video. They're wanting to put in Brachistone trajectories.

Yes, and this will even be important intrasystem with the new torch drive.  I'm really looking forward to this

[Pthigrivi]

Definitely keep playing KSP1, all the better on PC. Ive been playing for 9 years and Im still learning things. 

[mcwaffles2003]

5 hours ago, Volcomlancer said:

 The release date is still kind of up in the air but i really want to play some ksp lol should i jump into ksp1 again (i play science mode) or wait out the dev period of ksp2?

If you want to play KSP then play KSP... It don't gotta be any more complicated than that friend

[PlutoISaPlanet]

16 hours ago, Volcomlancer said:

I really only made it past a couple milestones on the original ksp on console; A couple mun landings and one time only had to put a runber band and time warp run a kerbal for 10 hours to meet up with the previous crew.  Landed on minmus and somehow got a flyby of eeloo once but couldn’t recreate it. Never able to get back from any of those but still i was happy with the progress. After all that the ksp2 news came and i stopped and thought it would be smart to learn more on ksp2. The release date is still kind of up in the air but i really want to play some ksp lol should i jump into ksp1 again (i play science mode) or wait out the dev period of ksp2?

KSP 1 could be "training" for KSP 2 if you veiw it a certain way. I would try to do some Duna and Ike missions, really fun to send a rover, and eventually a crewed mission. 

[Bej Kerman]

13 hours ago, intelliCom said:

16 hours ago, shdwlrd said:

Keep playing KSP1. Orbital mechanics isn't going to change between KSP1 and KSP2. So keep playing and learning all you can.

Might've missed the latest KSP 2 video. They're wanting to put in Brachistone trajectories.

You're thinking too deep. They just mean the rules are going to be the same. They didn't literally mean every nook and cranny of the physics will be identical.

[Volcomlancer]

Diving back into ksp1 it is. I didn’t know until now that they made a ps5 version so thats a pretty cool thing to walk into lol. I’ll flip to the pc version after this ksp binge.

[Volcomlancer]

Have a lot of weird things happening on the ps5 version. lol should of stuck with ps4 one or try out pc

[mcwaffles2003]

1 hour ago, Volcomlancer said:

Have a lot of weird things happening on the ps5 version. lol should of stuck with ps4 one or try out pc

Go PC, its made for PC , so many things to click... also mods...

[Volcomlancer]

For sure will be, just want to check a few more boxes on the console one. Made it to the mun and back with a decent amount of spare deltav so definitely getting better. Tomorrow i’ll work on minmus and back or docking. 

[BekfastDerp13]

On 4/8/2022 at 4:01 PM, Volcomlancer said:

I really only made it past a couple milestones on the original ksp on console; A couple mun landings and one time only had to put a runber band and time warp run a kerbal for 10 hours to meet up with the previous crew.  Landed on minmus and somehow got a flyby of eeloo once but couldn’t recreate it. Never able to get back from any of those but still i was happy with the progress. After all that the ksp2 news came and i stopped and thought it would be smart to learn more on ksp2. The release date is still kind of up in the air but i really want to play some ksp lol should i jump into ksp1 again (i play science mode) or wait out the dev period of ksp2?

I had the same situation, but I had gotten a computer. Going to KSP 1 was a great choice

[Pthigrivi]

14 hours ago, Volcomlancer said:

For sure will be, just want to check a few more boxes on the console one. Made it to the mun and back with a decent amount of spare deltav so definitely getting better. Tomorrow i’ll work on minmus and back or docking. 

If you can land on the Mun Minmus will be no problem. Docking is fun but tricky at first. Don’t hesitate to check out a youtube or ask for advice in the Gameplay and Tutorials section of this board. 

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

On 4/8/2022 at 5:03 PM, Volcomlancer said:

I do have a pc now though to and will be using

Welcome to PC Nation!  I don't know for sure - but I suspect KSP on PC is easier or at least better.

That said - I'm kind of like you; after being able to reliably get to the Mun and Minmus - my adventures outside the immediate vicinity of Kerbin are few.  For whatever reason, I found getting to and from the moons to be fairly intuitive; but trying to figure out interplanetary travel just never clicked for me.  I have reached a few of the other planetary systems and landed on their moons - but for some reason I just could not get interplanetary to shift from 'I can do it' to 'I have an intuitive understanding of how it works'.

I am really hoping that the writing team and the tutorial team help folks like me to cross that boundary.  Otherwise - I'll be blowing up the forums asking lengthy, awkward questions I don't have the vocabulary to ask succinctly.

[darthgently]

13 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

Welcome to PC Nation!  I don't know for sure - but I suspect KSP on PC is easier or at least better.

That said - I'm kind of like you; after being able to reliably get to the Mun and Minmus - my adventures outside the immediate vicinity of Kerbin are few.  For whatever reason, I found getting to and from the moons to be fairly intuitive; but trying to figure out interplanetary travel just never clicked for me.  I have reached a few of the other planetary systems and landed on their moons - but for some reason I just could not get interplanetary to shift from 'I can do it' to 'I have an intuitive understanding of how it works'.

I am really hoping that the writing team and the tutorial team help folks like me to cross that boundary.  Otherwise - I'll be blowing up the forums asking lengthy, awkward questions I don't have the vocabulary to ask succinctly.

If you don't want to mess with phase angle between Kerbin, and say Duna, just get into solar orbit, target Duna, and set up a hohmann transfer as normal.  You will find that the time of the transfer will typically end up being about the time of the transfer window from Kerbin to Duna as your solar orbit will be very close to Kerbin's solar orbit typically. 

The transfer window is very intuitively similar to the time point at which you'd burn to get a transfer to Mun.  It is all timing such that you and Mun arrive at the same place at the same time.  So the position of Mun at the time of your burn, and its velocity, will mean during the time your transfer takes is equal to the time the Mun takes to reach the rendezvous location.  This difference between the Mun position at time of burn and craft position at time of burn is the phase angle.  The following helps a lot

https://alexmoon.github.io/ksp/

Edited April 13, 2022 by darthgently
correction

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

17 minutes ago, darthgently said:

If you don't want to mess with phase angle between Kerbin, and say Duna, just get into solar orbit, target Duna, and set up a hohmann transfer as normal.  You will find that the time of the transfer will typically end up being about the time of the transfer window from Kerbin to Duna as your solar orbit will be very close to Kerbin's solar orbit typically. 

The transfer window is very intuitively similar to the time point at which you'd burn to get a transfer to Mun.  It is all timing such that you and Mun arrive at the same place at the same time.  So the position of Mun at the time of your burn, and its velocity, will mean during the time your transfer takes is equal to the time the Mun takes to reach the rendezvous location.  This difference between the Mun position at time of burn and craft position at time of burn is the phase angle.  The following helps a lot

https://alexmoon.github.io/ksp/

Grin - you just very succinctly described the point at where my brain begins to say 'whut?'

I can keep multiple missions to the two moons going in my head and plan out rendezvous, docking, separation, landing, reorbit, docking and returns for them with some fairly crazy crafts.  I'll have kerbonauts scattered about doing things and have a virtual timeline running for when/where/what I need them to do or what I need to do to keep those 'missions' progressing.

But once I start trying to figure out anything interplanetary - I have to drop everything I've had going on and literally try to do nothing but that one thing.  My few successes are where I basically abandon whatever ongoing 'campaign/science' world I successfully built to the point where I'm ready to begin interplanetary exploration - and shift to sandbox mode to just work on the one thing; one ship, one mission to Duna (or etc).

That cognitive break almost invariably works to ruin the fun I had been having in pursuing science advancements and unlocking the tech tree within a cohesive 'narrative' of my space program... and heralds the point where I start to play other games.

In other words; daunting.

 

 

...

 

I've been long familiar with the link you provided (and its in-game analogs) - and while they should help me to switch from struggle to intuitive mode: for whatever reason, they haven't.  Especially where I have multiple missions running where the timelines are in days or months and the efficient transfer window provided by that link/mod is measured in several months to a year or more from gamedate... (and even with timers/clocks set) the cognitive break between doing intuitive stuff to struggle to figure this out mode sets me on my heels.

It's similar to my basic inability to understand ISP vs TWR and the interplay between them.  Every single rocket I build, rather than being a model of efficiency literally just turns out to be "MOAR POWER" any time I discover I can't do what I want them to do.  (I WAAAAAY overbuild my orbital rockets just to get off Kerbin and then use whatever inefficiently large rocket's left-over fuel to start my exit burn, doing a suicide separation in the middle of it and finishing the burn with the intended 'work' rocket (the ship designed originally to carry me from orbit to whatever moon) to get me to where I'm going.  The crutch of being able to slap on a pair of SRBs to the huge liquid fueled rocket I built that I thought should be sufficient (but wasn't) makes neanderthaling orbit my modus operandi

[Pthigrivi]

Yeah I wonder if they’ll be integrating a porkchop transfer window finder into yhe mission planner or if there’s another way?

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

1 minute ago, Pthigrivi said:

Yeah I wonder if they’ll be integrating a porkchop transfer window finder into yhe mission planner or if there’s another way?

That has proven such a valuable tool for so many players, I can't see them not including it as a core feature of vanilla KSP2

I mean - from its humble beginnings, KSP benefitted from the wonderful efforts of some truly talented modders.  Further the core development team has added so many features & fixes since the inception that KSP 2 will hopefully start with all of that and run with it.

Edited April 13, 2022 by JoeSchmuckatelli

[Pthigrivi]

7 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

That has proven such a valuable tool for so many players, I can't see them not including it as a core feature of vanilla KSP2

Im thinking though if you had a porkchop on one side of the screen and a zoomed out view of the resulting transfer path on the other side by clicking around players would start to see why some launch dates are so much more efficient than others. Its both parts, the numbers and the spatial information. 

Edited April 13, 2022 by Pthigrivi

[t_v]

Additionally, when transferring to a moon you can just drag the maneuver along your orbit at will, whereas for interplanetary you have to click “next orbit” about 500 times if you are significantly off the transfer window and adjust the angle of the burn so that it still faces prograde/retrograde relative to the planet. Having the ability to just slide a maneuver along the orbit of the body you are orbiting could help a lot more than a transfer window timer, by giving people an understanding of how timing and angles affect transfers. But, back on topic, definitely keep with KSP 1. I would recommend at least trying a Jool mission using a gravity assist to circularize. Within the Jool system gravity assists pop up even accidentally and it is a wonderful experience to be able to chain assists and cross a system for practically no delta-v. 

[whatsEJstandfor]

44 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

That has proven such a valuable tool for so many players, I can't see them not including it as a core feature of vanilla KSP2

I mean - from its humble beginnings, KSP benefitted from the wonderful efforts of some truly talented modders.  Further the core development team has added so many features & fixes since the inception that KSP 2 will hopefully start with all of that and run with it.

It'd be cute if tools like that were even part of the progression. Like, we don't get porkchop plots until the Kerbals gain an understanding of orbital mechanics. And they get more and more precise as the game progresses because the Kerbals develop better methods of computation, going from hand-calculations to analog computers to mainframes, etc.

[darthgently]

1 hour ago, t_v said:

Having the ability to just slide a maneuver along the orbit of the body you are orbiting could help a lot more than a transfer window timer, by giving people an understanding of how timing and angles affect transfers.

You can do this, but it is tedious at times.  You have to left-click-drag on the little ring around the node without clicking on the orbit line or any of the direction glyphs,  You can also click the  left/right arrow glyphs at the center of the maneuver node widget in the bottom left of the screen in Map view.  The scale slider will make the time jumps bigger/smaller.

It wasn't until I started messing with kOS that a lot of the KSP stock gui made more sense, ha ha.  Once you start to see it all in terms of vectors and orbital mechanics the GUI makes a lot more sense.  And I've only really just begun to understand most of the math aspects beyond the basic orbital stuff

Edited April 13, 2022 by darthgently