Don't try this anywhere

[Gargamel]

There is a good chance at least some of these guys play KSP, which means there is a significant non zero chance at least one of them is reading this thread and thinking to themselves “Hmmmmmm maybe the internet nerds are right this time”.   

[DDE]

Actually, has anyone seen any evidence of fueling equipment? Either they kept the entire laborious procedure off the screen, or they were actually handling a (partially?) pre-fuelled rocket like that.

[fleventeen]

59 minutes ago, Gargamel said:

There is a good chance at least some of these guys play KSP, which means there is a significant non zero chance at least one of them is reading this thread and thinking to themselves “Hmmmmmm maybe the internet nerds are right this time”.   

@Pythom if you see this, please read "Ignition! An Informal History of Liquid Rocket Propellants", and stop messing with nitric acid! Or at least don't stand downwind of a test article...

At least they ran the test outdoors. I guess we can give them that.

Oh sweet Jesus...

Per their site re: the Asterex Rocket Engine: "Nitric acid (HNO3) or "white fuming nitric acid" is environmentaly friendly and common ingredient in fertilizers."

Makes you wonder why they were running away from that plume.

This gets worse the deeper I look...

[Piscator]

Well, nitric acid is actually pretty friendly to the environment. The trouble is, it's rather less friendly to things running around in said evironment. At least in its concentrated form.

[kerbiloid]

Just live in the environment where the nitric acid is among the most friendly things.

Maybe they have a chemical plant and a lot of excessive acid.

[cubinator]

4 hours ago, fleventeen said:

Per their site re: the Asterex Rocket Engine: "Nitric acid (HNO3) or "white fuming nitric acid" is environmentaly friendly and common ingredient in fertilizers."

Makes you wonder why they were running away from that plume.

This gets worse the deeper I look...

We all know how good for the environment fertilizers are...and how safe they are to expose yourself to.

[DDE]

https://www.pythom.space/updates/pythom-micro-jump-update

They've posted their own response... which begins by wagging their finger over Blue Origin's NTO-MMH Lunar lander. Bad for the moon rocks!

That said, at least they claim to be working with WFNA, which doesn't have the ghastly NTO fumes, so it sounds like they rubbed two halves of a braincell together. However, as someone with a copy of Ignition! might note, they didn't specify corrosion-inhibited IWFNA.

[wumpus]

7 hours ago, DDE said:

Actually, has anyone seen any evidence of fueling equipment? Either they kept the entire laborious procedure off the screen, or they were actually handling a (partially?) pre-fuelled rocket like that.

I was just judging from the apparent mass when they lifted it.  Of course, if they don't really want it to get off the ground it might  have extra weights inside.  Still wouldn't want to play with WFNA that way, I've read Ignition! as well.

[DDE]

Interestingly, after digging around a bit, I'm not as horrifed by their propellant choice - WFNA-FFA apparently is a staple of back-of-the-truck liquid rocketry and is comparatively benign unless you're literally splashed with it. I guess it got overstepped by higher-performance hydrazine and RFNA combination in military service, and we're comparing WFNA to the "fox's tail" we all fear.

However, Pythom's attitude is still rather suicidal.

[DDE]

They cooked their own WFNA

https://pythom.com/ps/Breaking-Bad-Rocket-Style-Cooking-Fuel-in-a-Trailer-Lab-2018-06-19-56983

LOL, they themselves looked forward to using MMH-NTO in their Mars Ascent Vehicle

[mikegarrison]

34 minutes ago, DDE said:

They cooked their own WFNA

Yeah, I thought they said something about that in the "fire the engine from the trailer" video. They mentioned something about making the acid and showed a guy opening up some nitrogen gas cylinders.

But there are reasons people don't usually use these propellants anymore. What's the best ISP they could hope to achieve?

Edited April 12, 2022 by mikegarrison

[fleventeen]

42 minutes ago, mikegarrison said:

But there are reasons people don't usually use these propellants anymore. What's the best ISP they could hope to achieve?

I found a reference stating 211 seconds for this mixture. Not great, but I guess they make up for it by the fact that the propellant is quite dense, meaning they can carry more, and they can also use a more compact rocket design.

Page 44.

https://www.proquest.com/openview/ab32245a2e8aaaa0eb8f6a81d1c14ec8/1?pq-origsite=gscholar&cbl=51922&diss=y

I guess I can see a draw for this propellant choice, given the breaking badesque, take an RV out into the desert type rocketry. I just wish they would fully commit and wear bunny suits and gasmasks in their promotional material.

Maybe if they add a bit of chili powder they can squeeze a few more seconds of ISP out of it? 

[StrandedonEarth]

20 minutes ago, fleventeen said:

Maybe if they add a bit of chili powder they can squeeze a few more seconds of ISP out of it? 

Nah, they need to make blue nitric acid…

[kerbiloid]

Nitric acid would be used by Python.

Pythom uses mythric acid.

[DDE]

48 minutes ago, fleventeen said:

I just wish they would fully commit and wear bunny suits and gasmasks in their promotional material.

I'd spotted a gas mask in theit engine firing test vid. I get the distinct feeling they want to keep the toxicity of the propellant away from the public eye.

I mean, it's used to make fertilizers, so it must be safe! /s

[fleventeen]

1 hour ago, StrandedonEarth said:

Nah, they need to make blue nitric acid…

I'll be damned, its a thing.

https://www.angelo.edu/faculty/kboudrea/demos/copper_HNO3/Cu_HNO3.htm

I wish I had paid attention in Chemistry. 

[steve9728]

I've been always thinking about would there have (or had) some idiots try to make a 'poison rocket' "at home" and unfornately screw them up ...

And now I got answer, well, part of...

"Good luck and may you succeed"

That reminds me a chemical joke in China: In China we got '84 Disinfectant' and the main components are NaClO. And the 'Toilet Cleaner' which main ingredients are HCL. Both are common, practical and both usually can be find in the bathroom. 

"Don't go inside you idiot! You just made a chemical weapon in the **** toilet!", shouted by a chemical teacher in my senior high school.

Edited April 12, 2022 by steve9728

[mikegarrison]

1 hour ago, DDE said:

I'd spotted a gas mask in theit engine firing test vid. I get the distinct feeling they want to keep the toxicity of the propellant away from the public eye.

I mean, it's used to make fertilizers, so it must be safe! /s

Of course, it's also used to make explosives. And rocket oxidizer.

Edited April 12, 2022 by mikegarrison

[sevenperforce]

Looking back at the “hot test” I can confirm that it was “hot” but I’m not sure it qualifies as a “hot fire” test except to the degree that it was hot and involved fire. I have yet to see any evidence that they have been able to produce sustained thrust.

If you go look at their website, the shape of their thrust chamber and engine bell seems wildly wrong. I wonder if they’ve ever produced thrust higher than the sum of their pressurant systems.

[StrandedonEarth]

6 hours ago, steve9728 said:

That reminds me a chemical joke in China: In China we got '84 Disinfectant' and the main components are NaClO. And the 'Toilet Cleaner' which main ingredients are HCL. Both are common, practical and both usually can be find in the bathroom. 

"Don't go inside you idiot! You just made a chemical weapon in the **** toilet!", shouted by a chemical teacher in my senior high school.

I worked in a distribution warehouse that supplied both bleach and ammonia. We were not allowed to stack them both on the same pallet to minimize the chance of a chlorine release in the event of an accident. 

1 hour ago, sevenperforce said:

Looking back at the “hot test” I can confirm that it was “hot” but I’m not sure it qualifies as a “hot fire” test except to the degree that it was hot and involved fire. I have yet to see any evidence that they have been able to produce sustained thrust.

That’s what I saw. A lot of flame in what looked like a hard start (lucky not to RUD the thing) but nothing that resembled a rocket engine firing. Definitely an odd looking engine. 

[kerbiloid]

The nozzles are in the next chapter of the book they are reading.

Also, it's a mod part, it can look any manner on the modder's wish.

P.S.
Btw, the book they are reading also includes the chapter about the Orion drive...

... and they need something better than nitric acid to get their lander to Mars...

...and they live in California, not in New Zealand...

I don't want to scare, but shouldn't you prepare?

Edited April 13, 2022 by kerbiloid

[caecilliusinhorto]

"Blue Origin's lunar lander propellant MMH/NTO, an extremely toxic combination. Pythom's "green" propellant combination of furfuryl alcohol and WFNA (nitric acid) is much kinder to people and the environment and a major reason for our choice of it."

Anyone else feel like Pythom is reading through Ignition! and testing the fuel mixtures as they go?

"Kaplan and Borden at JPL suggested one at the beginning of 1946. This was WFNA and straight furfuryl alcohol." - Ignition, page 41

Edited April 13, 2022 by caecilliusinhorto

[cubinator]

17 minutes ago, caecilliusinhorto said:

"Blue Origin's lunar lander propellant MMH/NTO, an extremely toxic combination. Pythom's "green" propellant combination of furfuryl alcohol and WFNA (nitric acid) is much kinder to people and the environment and a major reason for our choice of it."

Anyone else feel like Pythom is reading through Ignition! and testing the fuel mixtures as they go?

"Kaplan and Borden at JPL suggested one at the beginning of 1946. This was WFNA and straight furfuryl alcohol." - Ignition, page 41

They're taking it like WFNA is the state of the art, as opposed to an option slightly easier than hydrazine.

The part they're missing there is that ALL rocket propellants are dangerous as hell and fully capable of violently turning your day south at any time given the wrong care.  

[Shpaget]

Is it me, or the test fire out of the back of the trailer seems unstable, as in pulsing (bot high frequency brrrrt and occasional stutter)?

They are getting some shock diamonds, but the lengths of them is all over the place.

[caecilliusinhorto]

I think they messed up their nozzle ratio or had some combustion instability?

Also the trailer catches fire at the end