Developer Insights #14 - Part Creation

[intelliCom]

On 6/28/2022 at 3:59 AM, Nate Simpson said:

Because our team color application allows not only hue but opacity control

What do you mean by "Opacity"? If a colour is put at 0% opacity, what's the result? What about 100% opacity?

I can't help but think about recreating Wonder Woman's invisible jet by setting all the paint colours to 0% opacity, LOL.

Edited June 29, 2022 by intelliCom

[Vl3d]

On 6/27/2022 at 8:59 PM, Nate Simpson said:

On 6/27/2022 at 8:33 PM, Bubbadevlin said:

My other question is more of an art one, but will the parts be more visually uniform? 

Unless a part is explicitly clad in a nonstandard material, we are designing all part materials with part-to-part consistency in mind. Because our team color application allows not only hue but opacity control, it is possible for players to modulate some aspects of the part's material read as well, if for some reason they want a non-uniform result.

You need to read the whole post. You get some interesting info:

1. Parts can have cladding out of "nonstandard material". Probably for engineering purposes (heat / radiation management).

2. There are "team colors" which clearly indicate multiplayer. This I think it's the most interesting point, because it defines "the team" as a primary abstraction into which "the player" is integrated. Meaning that multiplayer is a primary feature of all gameplay.

3. The allied colors (hue) can be controlled but also can be mixed by opacity (like having another color underneath and scraping / mixing areas of paint).

 

22 minutes ago, intelliCom said:

If a colour is put at 0% opacity, what's the result?

You possibly see the bare metal (or material) of the part.

Edited June 29, 2022 by Vl3d

[The Aziz]

7 minutes ago, Vl3d said:

Parts can have cladding out of "nonstandard material". Probably for engineering purposes (heat / radiation management

Those that need the material, will have it. You can't take out ablative layer from a heatshield. But can you apply it on a tank? I doubt it (because it adds a whole lot more complexity to the game and the way parts work) but the future will tell.

12 minutes ago, Vl3d said:

it defines "the team" as a primary abstraction into which "the player" is integrated. Meaning that multiplayer is a primary feature of all gameplay.

Here we go again. No it isn't, at least for what I know now, I want to click on singleplayer button and have my "team" be me and my rockets, each colored depending on their destination or something. But there may be a feature in multiplayer that allows creating teams and set up team color. Meaning multiplayer is a separate entity.

[Vl3d]

7 minutes ago, The Aziz said:

I want to click on singleplayer button and have my "team" be me and my rockets, each colored depending on their destination or something. But there may be a feature in multiplayer that allows creating teams and set up team color. Meaning multiplayer is a separate entity.

I understood that single player is DRM-free 1 player multiplayer, like a one man team. And the logic would be that other players could join your game universe, either on your team to fill the 3 empty spots (2 runways, 4 launchpad per space center) or on another team. So you would still have a team color even in single player / private server.

The real question is - how will the stock DRM public server multiplayer be like?

Edited June 29, 2022 by Vl3d

[t_v]

43 minutes ago, intelliCom said:

What do you mean by "Opacity"? If a colour is put at 0% opacity, what's the result? What about 100% opacity?

I can't help but think about recreating Wonder Woman's invisible jet by setting all the paint colours to 0% opacity, LOL.

I think the paint will have a different reflectivity than the metal, meaning you will make your craft more matte by increasing opacity. 

[Vl3d]

6 minutes ago, t_v said:

the paint will have a different reflectivity than the metal

Are you sure all near future OAB constructed deep space craft will be made out of metal?

[t_v]

19 minutes ago, Vl3d said:

Are you sure all near future OAB constructed deep space craft will be made out of metal?

Well, given that most if not all main ship parts we have seen, from the early game to the late game, are made of metal, I’m pretty sure that most of the mid game parts will be metal. Some may have a nonstandard surface like heat shields have ablator or radiators have a different metal texture, but every core tank and pod we have seen has been metal. I bet that as you get into small probe parts, you begin to see antennae, science experiments, comms and batteries be non-paintable but stuff like the Xenon tanks should still be metal. 

[Axelord FTW]

What stuck out to me the most, out of this was the "over 600 parts" bit. Not to fart higher than the hole, but none of this is exactly a new concept to me.
What I am interested in, however, is scope. Over 600 parts is a promising figure.

That said, my Faith in Techno Chris(t) is unwavering, and I'm always happy to see how/what he's doing.

Edited June 30, 2022 by Axelord FTW

[Anth]

On 6/28/2022 at 6:03 AM, Nate Simpson said:

last week we all spent time building racecars... and they're just fantastic.

Did you make a race track and race the others?

[Psycho_zs]

On 6/28/2022 at 12:33 AM, Pthigrivi said:

Something as simple as this thing:



and its structural relatives are just crucial. I also hugely appreciate all the trusses and tubes and adapters in Near Future Construction. 

Yes! [procedural] pylons, connectors, beams, trusses, stack/surface adapters...

[Hannsnow]

I loved reading about how parts are created. It's very cool to see one of my favorite mod creators working on KSP2. I can't wait to play this game!

[JadeOfMaar]

On 6/27/2022 at 6:07 PM, Thundy said:

I noticed the word "Rotational" in some of the annotations. does that mean some of the parts will be animated?

Not necessarily. In electromagnetism, there are a few ways that the magnetic field of a thing can "flow." The two most likely flows (and the only two that matter to engines, in KSP at least) are "Axial" and, I suppose "Rotational." One of these is where the flow follows the circular profile of the device and goes round and round. The other is where the flow tightens at the top, goes down the center, spreads at the bottom, goes back up around the outside, then tightens at the top to flow back down. If you choose one flow for the electric or plasma current, the magnetic field takes the other.

 

Example of the electrical flow (axial) and magnetic field (rotational).

Depending on the device's purpose, swap the roles of the blue and orange arrows.

Same situation as if you make an electromagnet by wrapping an Iron rod with a Copper wire and supplying a current.

Example of the electrical flow (rotational) and magnetic field (axial).

[Thundy]

8 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

Not necessarily. In electromagnetism, there are a few ways that the magnetic field of a thing can "flow." The two most likely flows (and the only two that matter to engines, in KSP at least) are "Axial" and, I suppose "Rotational." One of these is where the flow follows the circular profile of the device and goes round and round. The other is where the flow tightens at the top, goes down the center, spreads at the bottom, goes back up around the outside, then tightens at the top to flow back down. If you choose one flow for the electric or plasma current, the magnetic field takes the other.

 

Example of the electrical flow (axial) and magnetic field (rotational).

Depending on the device's purpose, swap the roles of the blue and orange arrows.

Same situation as if you make an electromagnet by wrapping an Iron rod with a Copper wire and supplying a current.

Example of the electrical flow (rotational) and magnetic field (axial).

I see, I misunderstood the word "rotational" as in mechanical rotation, not magnetic rotation. However, it seems like my question has been answered, there will be animated parts in KSP2, even if rotational magnets don't have anything to do with animations since they are physically unmoving.

[K33N]

Looks great, love the new cockpit.

[TheUnamusedFox]

Haven't been on the forums much and didn't know Nertea was on the KSP2 team... that really does fill me with confidence, as all of his mods are on my must-be-installed list to play KSP. And to counter the doomsayer, I'm glad development is taking as much time as is required. However, I really wish I could play it in an early state whenever the game is far enough for player feedback and bug testing to be useful to the devs...

[GigFiz]

On 7/8/2022 at 11:06 AM, TheUnamusedFox said:

Haven't been on the forums much and didn't know Nertea was on the KSP2 team... that really does fill me with confidence, as all of his mods are on my must-be-installed list to play KSP. And to counter the doomsayer, I'm glad development is taking as much time as is required. However, I really wish I could play it in an early state whenever the game is far enough for player feedback and bug testing to be useful to the devs...

Yeah, as far as doomsaying goes (potential contract or NDA stuff aside), with all the time and effort that Nert put into giving us amazing mods I would have a really, really hard time believing that he would have joined the team and be sticking around and giving us behind the scenes looks like this if he had got the impression that this game was not going to make it to the finish line (heck, while I don't know how many delays had happened when he signed on to the team, it wouldn't have been an unreasonable question to ask when he interviewed with them.

Also, when you watch the dev videos, none of it feels like a doomed game: the team is clearly enjoying showing us what they have been working on, and are excited for when we get to see the finished product, and the dev diaries and updates, even if we wish there were more of them, more often, give a definite feeling of progression (and enough different things that it doesn't give the impression of them getting stuck going around just repeatedly redoing things).

I understand the impatience, and I understand the concern that arises from the number of delays, especially in that industry (people know the stories, and we remember the vanished projects that help feed those doubts and concerns). However, I just don't feel like that's what is happening. Case in point: how long did it take KSP to make it to 1.0? And how long after that to the last major update? Exactly, it was not a short time. Now, this isn't an identical situation; this is a sequel, not a new IP, so not all the ideas and design have to come from scratch, and I'm sure there is a significantly larger team, but on the other hand, they are doing far, far, more than KSP1, in so many ways, and their starting release is likely going for at least a level of finish and polish that KSP1 has right now. To me, thinking like that makes me think that making the original release would have been superhuman (not to mention the GIGANTIC monkeywrench that is Covid being thrown into the mix. Sure, if the dev updates and videos had stopped, I would say worry, but they haven't, and they are still active on the forums here.

To me what this feels like is that they started development with a certain picture in their minds, as you do, but then, as they worked on it, they started figuring out/realizing more things they could do to make it better, cooler, and more complete; they clearly want to make the best version of this game that they are able to, so they went for it. In essence they started with the realistic, pragmatic plan for the scope of the game, but then ended up getting to expand toward their fantasy wishlist version of the game, which would obviously be a huge increase in how long in took to complete. And in through that lens, the delays are actually, counterintuitively perhaps, a good thing, I think: it means (I think/hope) that the publisher, instead of putting their foot down and making hitting a deadline the only important thing, they are letting the devs make the game they were dreaming of, making and giving them the time to do it, even if it means repeatedly pushing it back to do it.

Maybe this sounds overly optimistic, but despite how it may sound, I'm not getting overhyped (though I would certainly be sad if it ended up being terrible or just disappearing), I'm just going to patiently wait, enjoy talking about what the show us, and then not think about it too much otherwise. It'll get her when it gets here, and then I will buy it and it will be amazing, I hope. Hell, even if it somehow isn't, there are a whole bunch of amazing modders just waiting in the wings.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it

Edited July 15, 2022 by GigFiz
Left a couple random words out

[TROPtastic]

On 7/12/2022 at 9:14 PM, GigFiz said:

This isn't an identical situation; this is a sequel, not a new IP, so not all the ideas and design have to come from scratch, and I'm sure there is a significantly larger team, but on the other hand, they are doing far, far, more than KSP1, in so many ways, and their starting release is likely going for at least a level of finish and polish that KSP1 has right now ...

To me what this feels like is that they started development with a certain picture in their minds, as you do, but then, as they worked on it, they started figuring out/realizing more things they could do to make it better, cooler, and more complete; they clearly want to make the best version of this game that they are able to, so they went for it. In essence they started with the realistic, pragmatic plan for the scope of the game, but then ended up getting to expand toward their fantasy wishlist version of the game, which would obviously be a huge increase in how long in took to complete. And in through that lens, the delays are actually, counterintuitively perhaps, a good thing, I think: it means (I think/hope) that the publisher, instead of putting their foot down and making hitting a deadline the only important thing, they are letting the devs make the game they were dreaming of, making and giving them the time to do it, even if it means repeatedly pushing it back to do it.

I agree with your assessment of their strategy, especially since I've seen a few indie games recently lose sight of the importance of putting your best foot forward. Some have launched paid early access programs with very barebones products, where even the core gameplay isn't at a stage where it could be considered fun. Add in many bugs and instabilities, and their playerbases have dropped significantly from the excitement of launch to a couple of hundred or even a couple dozen daily players. Completely avoidable declines if they had focused on putting out a playable, fun product at the start and then extending it with features.

Private Division/Take Two cannot afford this sort of approach to development (releasing something unfun and hoping that players stick around long enough to see improvements), especially for a game that probably won't go through early access, so it's really good that they're taking their time and letting Star Theory make the game the best it can be rather than trying to rush the game towards a more profitable release window, CP2077-style. This won't ensure that KSP2 will be great at launch, but it's certainly a promising approach.

[Natso]

Release date bro??

[The Aziz]

Early next year.

[Pgabrielmnecraft]

On 7/22/2022 at 5:59 AM, Natso said:

Release date bro??

Early 2023, Nate already spoke on the official channel about the release date.

[Dr. Kerbal]

After reading this I wonder how science mode will turn out. The fact that there will be more parts and the effort of scientific realism makes me wonder if the tech tree will be  revamped and remade. In the first game you can instantly research parts, but I wonder if KPS2 will change that. Like certain parts will take a certain amount of days based of their technologies. If so, will there be research boosts to parts that we have researched that are farther down on a path then another? Now that I type this this seems it would also effect Career mode or the new adventure mode.  Will there be almost like a focus tree that correlates with the science tree? The focus tree would give boots to research certain items. This games sounds amazing. After hearing the news of a sequel for the first time I was expecting this much in-depth revamps and improvements.  This sounds like an amazing game once it releases. I can't wait to see what has been improved. I look forward to the dev diaries, the feature videos,  the release, and future updates of KSP2! 

[Vegatoxi]

On 7/29/2022 at 3:07 AM, Pgabrielmnecraft said:

Early 2023, Nate already spoke on the official channel about the release date.

As he spoken about march 2020, then 2021, then 2022...

[tilliepops]

Just now, Vegatoxi said:

As he spoken about march 2020, then 2021, then 2022...

do not understand what they are doing? they are trying to the game is bug free is possible. "ksp2 is dead" how many times do the community need to tell you its not dead.

Edited August 5, 2022 by tilliepops

[t_v]

35 minutes ago, tilliepops said:

how many times do the community need to tell you its not dead.

Infinite times, until the game comes out and they admit that “oops, I made an innocent mistake by sticking to an unsupported opinion for two years” or just say that they were trolling. The best thing to do is to just not respond, as nothing anyone can say will change their opinion

[Vegatoxi]

2 hours ago, tilliepops said:

do not understand what they are doing? they are trying to the game is bug free is possible. "ksp2 is dead" how many times do the community need to tell you its not dead.

Well, for such people even invented a term - missing in action. When you understand but cant proof.

So fine. KSP isn't dead, it's MIA.