Speculation for why the latest screenshots of the KSP 2 look worse

[snkiz]

1 hour ago, Sesshaku said:

And here I am, with a GTX 670 FTW

The graphics market has been up and down a number of time since you've owned that friend. And it's stabilizing right now. Does that thing even still have driver support? I'm all for sane minimum specs. I think it's a bit much to expect support from a brand new game for decade old hardware.

[Bej Kerman]

2 hours ago, Sesshaku said:

Everyone here wants better graphics. And here I am, with a GTX 670 FTW, hoping they don't go overboard with the minimum requirements, because the GPU market is absolutely insane right now, and so is the economy of the country in which I live.

As far as I am concerned I hope they give as fancy graphics as you guys want, as long as they allow it to keep the low requirements....well....low.

I think trying to support obsolete hardware is overboard itself. That GTX 670 will be considered retro tech one day and, well, it's kind of unrealistic to expect developers to continue trying to work with hardware that might end up two decades old by the time KSP 2 reaches the end of support. In more eccentric terms to make sure my point is absolutely clear, developers are not going to stick to vector graphics so your BBC Micro can continue to play games

[GoldForest]

2 hours ago, Sesshaku said:

Everyone here wants better graphics. And here I am, with a GTX 670 FTW, hoping they don't go overboard with the minimum requirements, because the GPU market is absolutely insane right now, and so is the economy of the country in which I live.

As far as I am concerned I hope they give as fancy graphics as you guys want, as long as they allow it to keep the low requirements....well....low.

GTX 670? Yikes. Considering that most games minimum speces call for a 970 these days, you're already kind of too late on the "overboard with the minimum requirements." 

I fully expect KSP 2 to require at minimum, a GTX 1060/70. 

[Bej Kerman]

It's also interesting to note that the PS2 is nearly 23 years old now and that if KSP 2 were to be supported for 7 years, given till 2025 to reach release and another 5 years of support for good measure (could be much longer), your GTX 670 will be 4/5ths the PS2's current age, and you're asking that the devs by that time will still be trying to make sure it plays fine with KSP 2. So kind of a big ask in terms of support.

Edited February 8, 2023 by Bej Kerman

[tstein]

1 hour ago, GoldForest said:

GTX 670? Yikes. Considering that most games minimum speces call for a 970 these days, you're already kind of too late on the "overboard with the minimum requirements." 

I fully expect KSP 2 to require at minimum, a GTX 1060/70. 

REally think it is unlikely they ask that much as MINIMUM.  They would lose a LARGE playerbase.

[GoldForest]

7 minutes ago, tstein said:

REally think it is unlikely they ask that much as MINIMUM.  They would lose a LARGE playerbase.

Not really, considering most pc steam players owns a 10 series (Or amd equivalent) or better these days. 

Edited February 8, 2023 by GoldForest

[Alexoff]

In pre-alpha, the smoke cast a shadow. Not in beta anymore.

[GoldForest]

Just now, Alexoff said:

 

In pre-alpha, the smoke cast a shadow. Not in beta anymore.

I don't think we've seen rocket launch smoke near the pad to be able to see a shadow, unless I'm forgetting a screenshot. If you're going to make claims, at least provide proof of a Beta shot that you claim doesn't have shadows from the smoke. 

And if the beta doesn't have smoke, it's been said a million times by now, not every dev needs high resolution graphics. There are several builds that these images were screen capped from. 

[Alexoff]

1 hour ago, GoldForest said:

I don't think we've seen rocket launch smoke near the pad to be able to see a shadow, unless I'm forgetting a screenshot. If you're going to make claims, at least provide proof of a Beta shot that you claim doesn't have shadows from the smoke.

Here. See shadows?

1 hour ago, GoldForest said:

And if the beta doesn't have smoke, it's been said a million times by now, not every dev needs high resolution graphics. There are several builds that these images were screen capped from.

It's time to get one testable build of the game, two weeks left. It’s time to learn how to show not the lowest settings, what if something doesn’t work at high settings?

[MechBFP]

1 hour ago, tstein said:

REally think it is unlikely they ask that much as MINIMUM.  They would lose a LARGE playerbase.

https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/

A 670 doesn't even show up on their list of Direct X 12 video cards.

It is literally so low on the list it falls into the "other" category.

[whatsEJstandfor]

3 hours ago, tstein said:

REally think it is unlikely they ask that much as MINIMUM.  They would lose a LARGE playerbase.

The 670 is over 10 years old. It's just not reasonable to expect it to be able to handle modern titles. For comparison, I looked through a few releases from the past year to check system requirements. Elden Ring, for example, has a minimum requirement of a GTX 1060. That's probably the most extreme example. However, the Spider-Man games that hit Steam last year both require a GTX 950. God of War, coming out over a year ago now, requires a GTX 960. I looked for games that were maybe more comparable to KSP's art style, and, for example, the Lego Skywalker Saga game from April requires a GTX 750 Ti.

As for GPU prices, it sucks that the market was so volatile recently, but prices are finally coming back down to Kerbin, and, with the latest AMD 7000 cards and the NVidia RTX 4000 cards out now, eBay has tons of mid-range cards from last generation for around $300, and some from the previous two generations for around $200. I even saw a GTX 1080 Ti (imho still one of the best-of-all-time cards!) for $240. I don't know what your budget is like, but those are a great value, and I'm sure they'll continue to perform really well for the next 6 or 7 years, especially if you've gotten by with a 670 for this long. Just be careful to read the fine print in the listings; a lot of sellers will sell dead or damaged cards, and try to obfuscate that fact in the title and listing details.

Edit: I hadn't even looked at AMD cards until just now, but it looks like the card I'm currently using, an RX 5700, can be found for about $150. With prices like these, I'd say it's a really good time to buy a used GPU.

Edited February 8, 2023 by whatsEJstandfor

[snkiz]

9 hours ago, GoldForest said:

I fully expect KSP 2 to require at minimum, a GTX 1060/70. 

Number 1 card on steam followed by the 1650, 2060 and 3050

[tstein]

13 hours ago, whatsEJstandfor said:

The 670 is over 10 years old. It's just not reasonable to expect it to be able to handle modern titles. For comparison, I looked through a few releases from the past year to check system requirements. Elden Ring, for example, has a minimum requirement of a GTX 1060. That's probably the most extreme example. However, the Spider-Man games that hit Steam last year both require a GTX 950. God of War, coming out over a year ago now, requires a GTX 960. I looked for games that were maybe more comparable to KSP's art style, and, for example, the Lego Skywalker Saga game from April requires a GTX 750 Ti.

As for GPU prices, it sucks that the market was so volatile recently, but prices are finally coming back down to Kerbin, and, with the latest AMD 7000 cards and the NVidia RTX 4000 cards out now, eBay has tons of mid-range cards from last generation for around $300, and some from the previous two generations for around $200. I even saw a GTX 1080 Ti (imho still one of the best-of-all-time cards!) for $240. I don't know what your budget is like, but those are a great value, and I'm sure they'll continue to perform really well for the next 6 or 7 years, especially if you've gotten by with a 670 for this long. Just be careful to read the fine print in the listings; a lot of sellers will sell dead or damaged cards, and try to obfuscate that fact in the title and listing details.

Edit: I hadn't even looked at AMD cards until just now, but it looks like the card I'm currently using, an RX 5700, can be found for about $150. With prices like these, I'd say it's a really good time to buy a used GPU.

No talking the 670  but the post that expected a 1070 as MINIMUM. A LOT of peopel that  do play   KSP  will have low end cards like a 1050

Edited February 9, 2023 by tstein

[GoldForest]

19 minutes ago, tstein said:

No talking the 670  but the post that expected a 1070 as MINIMUM. A LOT of peopel that  do play   KSP  will have low end cards like a 1050

I did also mention the 1060, which is also low end. And minimum specs is just the lowest graphics card that's recommended. The game will still run on lower end or even older hardware. It won't be that great. But you'll be able to do it. 

I just expect the lowest that Intercept will recommend as minimum, will be the 1060, or AMD equivalent. 

Edited February 9, 2023 by GoldForest

[MechBFP]

2 hours ago, GoldForest said:

And minimum specs is just the lowest graphics card that's recommended. The game will still run on lower end or even older hardware. It won't be that great. But you'll be able to do it.

Exactly this. It is likely that the lowest hardware they would recommend is something that can run the game at at least an average 30FPS with everything turned to minimum.

If you want to run the game at 10FPS, that is your call to make.

Edited February 9, 2023 by MechBFP
Typo

[mcwaffles2003]

2 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

Exactly this. It is likely that the lowest settings they would recommend is something that can run the game at at least an average 30FPS with everything turned to minimum.

If you want to run the game at 10FPS, that is your call to make.

not like the community isn't used to 5 or less FPS at this point

[snkiz]

For the longest time I thought yellow was the default clock colour.

[tstein]

3 hours ago, GoldForest said:

I did also mention the 1060, which is also low end. And minimum specs is just the lowest graphics card that's recommended. The game will still run on lower end or even older hardware. It won't be that great. But you'll be able to do it. 

I just expect the lowest that Intercept will recommend as minimum, will be the 1060, or AMD equivalent. 

When I am speakign minimum I am saying  under this will NOT run.  To require anythgin  above  NV gen 10  to do that  would leave 90% of notebooks  out and they are still a large part of the more casual playerbase.

[GoldForest]

1 minute ago, tstein said:

When I am speakign minimum I am saying  under this will NOT run.  To require anythgin  above  NV gen 10  to do that  would leave 90% of notebooks  out and they are still a large part of the more casual playerbase.

Ah. Probably should say absolute minimum, so there's no confusion in the future.

[Kerbart]

2 minutes ago, GoldForest said:

Ah. Probably should say absolute minimum, so there's no confusion in the future.

Yes, versus "recommended (minimum) hardware" as what Intercept will list.

 

31 minutes ago, snkiz said:

For the longest time I thought yellow was the default clock colour.

What do you mean, "default color?" Doesn't it always show in red?

[mcwaffles2003]

11 hours ago, GoldForest said:

Ah. Probably should say absolute minimum, so there's no confusion in the future.

That's not a very useful metric though as that could include hardware where the game runs at 10spf, I don't think the borderline of crashing is where you will find useful info

[Alexoff]

Perhaps the beta version began to look worse so that you don’t have to write 5090ti in the recommended system requirements?

[SpaceJaM]

On 2/9/2023 at 11:53 AM, tstein said:

No talking the 670  but the post that expected a 1070 as MINIMUM. A LOT of peopel that  do play   KSP  will have low end cards like a 1050

KSP is a 12 years old game and 1050 is a low-end 7 years old card.

Should a new game still address obsolete low end hardware? Or should it take advantage of newest hardware and the latest technological solutions?

[Meredith Nathaniei]

There is a Chinese proverb: "The greater the expectation, the greater the disappointment", but I hope not.

[tstein]

On 2/18/2023 at 12:16 PM, SpaceJaM said:

KSP is a 12 years old game and 1050 is a low-end 7 years old card.

Should a new game still address obsolete low end hardware? Or should it take advantage of newest hardware and the latest technological solutions?

Again,,, KSP is NOT  the typical game with the tipical  client. A lot more people play in Notebooks and notebooks are in general running with low end cards. Notice that  almost EVERY  game that was released last year,that is nto an FPS  can run in a 1050