[WIP] O.R.A.N.G.E.S - Stockalike Shuttle-Derived Launch Vehicles! (v1.0.0-beta-2 6/Feb/2023)

[EStreetRockets]

On 9/13/2023 at 11:18 AM, Ashiepoppy said:

Will you do just one Ares I and V variant (being the final design before CxP was canned) or other variants?

Only one Ares V variant is planned. Some tank color and length variants are planned for Ares I. Generally speaking, the goal is to create great part sets for one variant.

[Ultim32]

Is the J2-X engine a separate part?

[Falcon Aerospace]

4 minutes ago, Ultim32 said:

Is the J2-X engine a separate part?

I think the J-2X is in the Cryo engines mod, or will be added again in RMM

[GoldForest]

1 hour ago, EStreetRockets said:

Only one Ares V variant is planned. Some tank color and length variants are planned for Ares I. Generally speaking, the goal is to create great part sets for one variant.

Which Ares V? The 8.4 meter or the 10 meter?

[Entr8899]

On 9/12/2023 at 4:14 PM, EStreetRockets said:

Shuttle Orbiter parts are not in ORANGES and we will not be making parts for the S.O.C.K. (Shuttle Orbiter Construction Kit) orbiter.

But this mod is full of accessories for the SOCK shuttle, right?

[EStreetRockets]

2 hours ago, GoldForest said:

Which Ares V? The 8.4 meter or the 10 meter?

10m core and upper stage. 8.4m would be too repetitive with Shuttle-derived stuff.

[GoldForest]

8 hours ago, EStreetRockets said:

10m core and upper stage. 8.4m would be too repetitive with Shuttle-derived stuff.

Ah right. 8.4 is 5.25 in KSP, so basically 5m. 

Are we going to get EDS then? And could we get that in both sizes? I know we have the NLS 5m Upper Stage, but it looks nothing like the unique shape of EDS. 

[Invaderchaos]

Good news! There is a new ORANGES wiki (that is highly WIP). So far there’s only a home page and a STS ET Variant guide, but by completion it will detail how to make all the SDLVs that ORANGES features, along with some extra stuff for SOCK and ACK. The wiki can be found here:  https://github.com/EStreetRockets/ORANGES/wiki

On 9/13/2023 at 10:18 AM, Ashiepoppy said:

Will you do just one Ares I and V variant (being the final design before CxP was canned) or other variants?

Ares 1 will have some choices. There will be a longer length switch for ESAS. There will also be a separate switch to make Ares 1 use an intertank instead of common bulkhead, which will also make it a little longer. I’m focusing on one diameter of Ares V EDS, where both Ares V and EDS are 10m in diameter (or 6.25m in KSP scale). I’m not going to make a 5m (KSP scale) EDS. As for Ares V configurations, the goal  there will be the 5 RS-68 w/ 5 seg RSRM config along with the 6 RS-68 w/ 5.5 seg RSRM. However, the later will depend on Photon Corp for a 5.5 seg RSRM, which it currently does not have. This variant also stretches the Ares V core stage ever so slightly. I’m also debating whether or not to add length switches to the Ares V core stage, but these would be purely fictional switches.

8 hours ago, GoldForest said:

Ah right. 8.4 is 5.25 in KSP, so basically 5m. 

Are we going to get EDS then? And could we get that in both sizes? I know we have the NLS 5m Upper Stage, but it looks nothing like the unique shape of EDS. 

Refer to above in this post. Unfortunately I’m not gonna make a 5m EDS. You can kitbash by using one of our stages or ACK’s EDS but there are so many variations of Ares stuff and it’s not going to be productive to get into the weeds of every proposal. Plus having two upper stage parts that look almost identical aside from their diameter would contribute to part bloat and be confusing to look at in the VAB.

Unrelated, but EDS is going to be a super cool part. It’s not really known to many, but the white/black skin of EDS is actually jettisonable insulation/micrometeorite protection panels, similar to Centaur D. It has SOFI underneath and will be set up similar to BDB’s Centaur D.

20 hours ago, Falcon Aerospace said:

I think the J-2X is in the Cryo engines mod, or will be added again in RMM

We will be including the J-2X from Cryoengines in ORANGES via patch. It will likely be slightly downscaled to have more accurate dimensions but this is TBD. We’ll also have BDB’s RS-68B patched in for Ares V. 

On 9/12/2023 at 9:29 AM, Entr8899 said:

Wasn't photoncorp broken or something? Like the balance was out of whack?

I’m pretty sure Photoncorp’s balancing is fine. If anything reDIRECT’s RSRMs were overpowered IIRC. Photoncorp also has an update on the works for some point. 

[Invaderchaos]

On 9/11/2023 at 9:44 AM, GoldForest said:

That wasnt me reporting a problem, I was just surprised and thought I'd share the info.

I doubt the numbers will change by much, so Jupiter III should still lift it to the same height. 

Still had quite the amount delta V

I also haven’t mentioned it here, but the ET should be balanced now. The big discrepancy was that using the way BDB balances tanks, the ET should be very light, about 22 tons dry. On the other hand, reDIRECT’s tank is pretty heavy, around 39 tons dry iirc. Part of this seems due to SOCK’s shuttle being scaled at quarter mass, but the issue is scaling the dry mass that high might impact the balancing of non-shuttle SDLV, which was particularly evident  with Shuttle-C. 
 

To strike a happy medium, I implemented a switch for dry tank mass. IRL, there were three ET designs with each subsequent ET having less dry mass. Including the decouplers attached, the dry ET mass now ranges from 26.5-35 tons. 
 

Unfortunately, Shuttle-C balancing is getting tricky. IRL Shuttle-C was supposed to bring 65 tons to LEO. But since the ET is balanced around SOCK which assumes a reduced mass shuttle and payload, it’s impossible to get Shuttle-C to bring that mass to LEO in KSRSS Reborn, even with a super light Shuttle-C. ORANGES’ Shuttle-C is able to bring a little over 50 tons to LEO. Considering SOCK’s shuttle uses reduced mass scaling on its payloads I think this should be optimal enough. Lifting surfaces and reaction wheels were also added to Shuttle-C to make it easier to launch. OMS fuel was also added.

[GoldForest]

@Invaderchaos Konstellstion mod by Roger Wang has a 5.5 segment srb. You can probably ask them to use the model or suggest people download Konstellation to get it.

Oh, also, idk why, but I can't control the Shuttle-C engine part. It says it has command module, it has ec, but it won't let me switch to it after detach.

Edited September 15, 2023 by GoldForest

[Xt007]

Not a valid solution for everyone and the upcoming release of bdb may break more of these configuration, but real fuels stock config is nice for ksrss.

https://github.com/tinygrox/RealFuels-Stock

[Invaderchaos]

3 hours ago, GoldForest said:

@Invaderchaos Konstellstion mod by Roger Wang has a 5.5 segment srb. You can probably ask them to use the model or suggest people download Konstellation to get it.

Oh, also, idk why, but I can't control the Shuttle-C engine part. It says it has command module, it has ec, but it won't let me switch to it after detach.

Oh I will look into Konstellation’s 5.5 segment RSRM. I’ll also look into the shuttle C issue. Which engine part, the one with the OPM?

[Invaderchaos]

3 hours ago, GoldForest said:

@Invaderchaos Konstellstion mod by Roger Wang has a 5.5 segment srb. You can probably ask them to use the model or suggest people download Konstellation to get it.

Oh, also, idk why, but I can't control the Shuttle-C engine part. It says it has command module, it has ec, but it won't let me switch to it after detach.

Think I just fixed it 

[MashAndBangers]

@Invaderchaos Have you had a chance to test the Shuttle C with a Habtech 2 Solar Truss?  During launch when it has gained enough speed, it should start pitching up out of control.

[Invaderchaos]

1 hour ago, MashAndBangers said:

@Invaderchaos Have you had a chance to test the Shuttle C with a Habtech 2 Solar Truss?  During launch when it has gained enough speed, it should start pitching up out of control.

Shuttle-C is gonna be pretty hard to control no matter how I balance it. How old is your install? Yesterday I updated its lifting surfaces. It’s still hard to control but if you use mechjeb’s SAS it is a lot more stable.

[GoldForest]

4 hours ago, Invaderchaos said:

Oh I will look into Konstellation’s 5.5 segment RSRM. I’ll also look into the shuttle C issue. Which engine part, the one with the OPM?

Yeah, the one with the RCS pods.

[MashAndBangers]

18 hours ago, Invaderchaos said:

Shuttle-C is gonna be pretty hard to control no matter how I balance it. How old is your install? Yesterday I updated its lifting surfaces. It’s still hard to control but if you use mechjeb’s SAS it is a lot more stable.

Used the latest version today, and the Solar Trusses still cause the out of control pitching.  I tested with an Apollo CSM as the cargo, and that got to orbit no problem.  I believe a custom drag cube needs to be set up in the config for the Shuttle C cargo parts to occlude everything , including the solar trusses.  In Benjee's Sock Shuttle, the cargo section has a custom drag cube declared, which lead me to believe this is the solution.

[EStreetRockets]

Jupiter fairings in progress!

 

17 hours ago, MashAndBangers said:

Used the latest version today, and the Solar Trusses still cause the out of control pitching.  I tested with an Apollo CSM as the cargo, and that got to orbit no problem.  I believe a custom drag cube needs to be set up in the config for the Shuttle C cargo parts to occlude everything , including the solar trusses.  In Benjee's Sock Shuttle, the cargo section has a custom drag cube declared, which lead me to believe this is the solution.

I will look into this issue.

[Richmountain112]

Could you release a Beta 3 sometime soon?

[Richmountain112]

How do I get the Shuttle C parts to show up in-game?

I downloaded them from Github and they're not showing up in the VAB.

[Cheesecake]

11 hours ago, Richmountain112 said:

How do I get the Shuttle C parts to show up in-game?

I downloaded them from Github and they're not showing up in the VAB.

I thin you downloaded the 1.0.0 beta.

Here is the link for the latest versions:
https://github.com/EStreetRockets/ORANGES

[AerospaceBricks]

Will Oranges be available on CKAN in the future? 

[GoldForest]

On 9/17/2023 at 3:28 AM, EStreetRockets said:

Jupiter fairings in progress!

 

I will look into this issue.

Are you going to make a cutout in the top for Benjee's Orion?

Edited September 19, 2023 by GoldForest

[Invaderchaos]

4 hours ago, GoldForest said:

Are you going to make a cutout in the top for Benjee's Orion?

Yes, I believe there will be cutouts sized for Apollo and Orion. 

WIP early STS Oxygen Vent Hood. This oxygen vent hood has two little "flaps" that extend below the oxygen vents on the ET's ogive nose. This type of oxygen vent hood was first used on STS-6 in 1983 all the way up until STS-90 in 1998.

[Horizons Aerospace]

On 9/16/2023 at 10:08 AM, MashAndBangers said:

Used the latest version today, and the Solar Trusses still cause the out of control pitching.  I tested with an Apollo CSM as the cargo, and that got to orbit no problem.  I believe a custom drag cube needs to be set up in the config for the Shuttle C cargo parts to occlude everything , including the solar trusses.  In Benjee's Sock Shuttle, the cargo section has a custom drag cube declared, which lead me to believe this is the solution.

Are you using MechJeb ascent guidance, by any chance?