Meta BepInEx vs. SpaceWarp

[Scarecrow71]

For starters, I'll state that if this topic is covered somewhere else that this thread be merged with that topic, and that someone notify me where that other topic is.

Secondly, I'll state that this thread is not meant to be a war of which modloader is better; we have one of those, and that is not what the purpose of this thread is.

So what's the purpose of this thread?  I'd like to first ask if you can be running both modloaders at the same time.  I am currently using SpaceWarp, primarily because I got the instructions on how to use that one first (and couldn't find the instructions for BepInEx, which I do now have access to).  There are mods for BepInEx, and there are mods for SpaceWarp, and ne'er the twain shall meet, as it were.  An example is Micro-Engineer, which states it is for SpaceWarp 0.3.0, and there is no BepInEx version of this.  Maneuver Node Controller, on the other hand, doesn't state which one it is for, so I'd assume...either?  Finally, KSP2Dev LogConsole states it is for BepInEx 5.  With multiple options here, I am trying to figure out if I could potentially run both of these at the same time.

My second question, assuming the outcome of the above is either "No" or "Well...", are there instructions anywhere for installing BepInEx and its resultant patch to allow SpaceWarp to be used with it?  I've seen that there is a plugin on SpaceDock.Info for this, but the install instructions on SpaceDock state only that it's the same install as for SpaceWarp.  So my confusion stems from not knowing when I install this...do I put the mods in the SpaceWarp/Mods folder?  Where does this plugin go?  Again, I'll ask that people with knowledge assume I have zero knowledge and to please be precise with install instructions.  Simply telling me "Well, just put it here" doesn't work.  Not for me, anyhow.  I'm very detail-oriented, and I simply need it spelled out as if I had never played the game or installed a mod before.  Once I get it once, I'm good.  But first time?  Need that hard shove.

So if anyone can help me out here, that'd be keen!

[HebaruSan]

1 minute ago, Scarecrow71 said:

I'd like to first ask if you can be running both modloaders at the same time.

Yes, that's the purpose of this download that implements SpaceWarp as a BepInEx plugin:

• https://spacedock.info/mod/3277/BepInEx Space Warp Plugin

1 minute ago, Scarecrow71 said:

I've seen that there is a plugin on SpaceDock.Info for this, but the install instructions on SpaceDock state only that it's the same install as for SpaceWarp.  So my confusion stems from not knowing when I install this...do I put the mods in the SpaceWarp/Mods folder?  Where does this plugin go?

If you're referring to the one I linked above, I believe you just follow the install instructions for the mods. If they say to put them in BepInEx/plugins, you do that. If they say to put them in SpaceWarp/Mods, you do that.

[munix]

There is a discussion thread pretty much about this:

As for running both, you install BepInEx as you'd normally do, then download the BepInEx version of SpaceWarp (BepInEx Space Warp Plugin on SpaceDock) and place it into BepInEx/plugins, then for mods, depending on whether they say they require BepInEx or SpaceWarp, you put them either into BepInEx/plugins or SpaceWarp/Mods

Just now, HebaruSan said:

Yes, that's the purpose of this download that implements SpaceWarp as a BepInEx plugin:

• https://spacedock.info/mod/3277/BepInEx Space Warp Plugin

If you're referring to the one I linked above, I believe you just follow the install instructions for the mods. If they say to put them in BepInEx/plugins, you do that. If they say to put them in SpaceWarp/Mods, you do that.

Ah, I see you were a few seconds faster 

[Scarecrow71]

So, I either did something wrong, or BepInEx doesn't like me.  I:

1. Downloaded and installed BepInEx 5 in my KSP2 folder.
2. Launched KSP2 and then exited the game.
3. Downloaded the SpaceWarp plugin for BepInEx and put it in BepInEx\plugins.
4. Launched KSP2 and then exited the game.
5. Downloaded and installed the following mods in the SpaceWarp\mods folder:
   1. Maneuver Node Controller
   2. Micro-Engineer
   3. Sticky Orbit Markers
6. Launched KSP2.

After step 6 there, I did not have the MODS menu entry at the loading screen.  I exited and relaunched with the same result - no MODS entry.  So I quit the game, removed everything, and went through and simply installed SpaceWarp and the mods...and that works.  For some reason, SpaceWarp by itself works, but BepInEx and the plugin for SpaceWarp do not.  Any ideas why?

[modus]

So what's the difference between "SpaceWarp loader for BepInEx" and "BepInEx SpaceWarp Plugin"? @HebaruSan maybe?

[HebaruSan]

7 minutes ago, modus said:

So what's the difference between "SpaceWarp loader for BepInEx" and "BepInEx SpaceWarp Plugin"? @HebaruSan maybe?

Disclaimer, I'm not involved in any of these projects, but as I understand it those are just different names for the same thing. If you have links to two different things by those names, I'd be happy to take a look and give you my further impressions.

Edited March 1, 2023 by HebaruSan

[modus]

21 minutes ago, HebaruSan said:

Disclaimer, I'm not involved in any of these projects, but as I understand it those are just different names for the same thing. If you have links to two different things by those names, I'd be happy to take a look and give you my further impressions.

Sure: https://spacedock.info/mod/3265/SpaceWarp loader for BepInEx and https://spacedock.info/mod/3277/BepInEx Space Warp Plugin

Looks like one is from mister bep, the other from team spacewarp.

[HebaruSan]

24 minutes ago, modus said:

Sure: https://spacedock.info/mod/3265/SpaceWarp loader for BepInEx and https://spacedock.info/mod/3277/BepInEx Space Warp Plugin

Ahh, yes, thanks for the links!

24 minutes ago, modus said:

Looks like one is from mister bep, the other from team spacewarp.

Yup, I think you've nailed it there. They seem to be basically the same thing done slightly differently by different people. My guess is that it would be better to install the one from the SpaceWarp team ("3277" in the URL), since they'll know to provide new downloads when updates are made, whereas the other one would depend on the BepInEx developer being asked by someone else to rebuild that package.

[VITAS]

I suggested to @cheese3660 (SpaceWarp) to bundle everything in one download and also make an auto download&install script mod devs can distribute with their mods so that the mod loader dependencies can be solved with a single click...until ckan for ksp2 exists.
Seems like shes working on that. I also pointed her to you @HebaruSan to exchange insights into ksp2 workings.

Edited March 2, 2023 by VITAS

[HebaruSan]

2 minutes ago, VITAS said:

I also pointed him to you @HebaruSan to exchange insights into ksp2 workings.

I'm going to be of very limited use for that, since I have installed the game but not run it yet, and I'm not trying to peer into the internals with a debugger. My focus is exclusively on how the game folder is structured, and that's pretty easy to acquire info for anyone with an interest.

[cheese3660]

42 minutes ago, VITAS said:

I suggested to @cheese3660 (SpaceWarp) to bundle everything in one download and also make an auto download&install script mod devs can distribute with their mods so that the mod loader dependencies can be solved with a single click...until ckan for ksp2 exists.
Seems like hes working on that. I also pointed him to you @HebaruSan to exchange insights into ksp2 workings.

If you look on the organization we have a repo for an installer, but its for space warp only and doesn't do anything like dependency stuff yet. Also for reference, my pronouns are she/they.

2 hours ago, HebaruSan said:

Ahh, yes, thanks for the links!

Yup, I think you've nailed it there. They seem to be basically the same thing done slightly differently by different people. My guess is that it would be better to install the one from the SpaceWarp team ("3277" in the URL), since they'll know to provide new downloads when updates are made, whereas the other one would depend on the BepInEx developer being asked by someone else to rebuild that package.

That would be the one I would recommend yes, it is one that we automatically build with new space warp releases.

[cheese3660]

Open discussion on a topic that will resolve this
https://github.com/SpaceWarpDev/SpaceWarp/issues/105

And in progress work for it
https://github.com/SpaceWarpDev/SpaceWarp/tree/experimental-bepinex-library

Edited March 2, 2023 by cheese3660
Add link to in progress bepinex work

[modus]

On 3/1/2023 at 5:30 PM, Scarecrow71 said:

So, I either did something wrong, or BepInEx doesn't like me.  I:

1. Downloaded and installed BepInEx 5 in my KSP2 folder.
2. Launched KSP2 and then exited the game.
3. Downloaded the SpaceWarp plugin for BepInEx and put it in BepInEx\plugins.
4. Launched KSP2 and then exited the game.
5. Downloaded and installed the following mods in the SpaceWarp\mods folder:
   1. Maneuver Node Controller
   2. Micro-Engineer
   3. Sticky Orbit Markers
6. Launched KSP2.

After step 6 there, I did not have the MODS menu entry at the loading screen.  I exited and relaunched with the same result - no MODS entry.  So I quit the game, removed everything, and went through and simply installed SpaceWarp and the mods...and that works.  For some reason, SpaceWarp by itself works, but BepInEx and the plugin for SpaceWarp do not.  Any ideas why?

Did you extract every folder (there's 2) from the plugin zip in the main directory? For me it works fine.

[RayneCloud]

I don't intend to use either. I'll stick with the official one when it comes out. 

[Capt. Hunt]

14 minutes ago, RayneCloud said:

I don't intend to use either. I'll stick with the official one when it comes out. 

yeah, I'm sure that the devs will release a new Module Manager sooner or later that will supersede both of these plugins. 

[modus]

1 hour ago, RayneCloud said:

I don't intend to use either. I'll stick with the official one when it comes out. 

Yeah me too, when it comes out

[cheese3660]

Of note to this discussion:
https://github.com/SpaceWarpDev/SpaceWarp/releases/tag/spacewarp-0.4.0-prerelease-1