Parts manager poll and opinions

[Guest]

Big, big YAY for not having to hunt for parts deep inside assemblies. The idea is solid and a big improvement over KSP1.  It does need work though! It takes up too much space and if you have multiple parts of the same type it's hard to tell which is which.

Some things that might be worth trying:

• Add a resource manager to the VAB too, for managing fuel loadouts, instead of doing that in the parts manager. It would be consistent with flight mode
• Add a toggle that hides things that don't have anything to interact with or are handled in the resource manager or kerbal manager: fuel tanks, command pods, passenger modules, structural parts, non-deployable solar panels, etc. That would leave engines, decouplers and docking ports, landing gear and struts, and wings and other aero surfaces – a much shorter list! This toggle should default to "HIDE" in flight mode and "SHOW" in VAB.
• Make it possible to favorite/pin items to the top of the list.
• Instead of accordion panes, open the details in a pop-up pane so the list would stay put. This pane would also have more room for things like advanced controls so that could be already open.
• Display the stage for engines and fuel tanks so I can tell which one is which if I have several of each type.

I'd also like to see how it felt if instead of an independent floating pane in the VAB it was a toggle between the parts manager and the parts list. If I've interested in an individual part I already have, I'm not going to be digging for a new part, so these could be alternatives IMO. I wouldn't know for sure until I've tried it though!

Edited March 14, 2023 by Guest

[K^2]

I think it's the right call overall, but it needs work. First of all, it obviously needs to be responsive. I don't know what the current code is doing, but that ain't it. Even if you have to rebuild the parts list, you shouldn't need several seconds to walk a tree of fewer than a billion parts. Secondly, it needs to be easier to actually navigate, and maybe keep some parts pinned, similar to the old system, or maybe have a favorites section there? Just some way of not having to hunt for everything all the time. But I do believe in the concept and that it can be better than what we used to have.

[Guest]

There are other obviously bugged things too, like the buttons don't always respond to clicks. I'm sure they'll fix those in due course!

[Picard2]

16 hours ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

I'd like to retain the feature as something I can open by clicking the Parts Manager Icon at the bottom of the screen... but not by right clicking on a specific part.

When I right click - I want a small panel just for that particular part to open - so I can have a couple of specific parts up in small windows like before.

Voted yay because I think it's great but only in the right context. But this basically sums up my view too. Global part manager is a great idea, but it's incorrectly tied to contexts where it shouldn't be used.

When you right-click on a part you are making an explicit instruction to show you details for that part, I think. And you might need to view multiple parts side by side.

But a global list is so useful that removing that as a feature makes no sense either. It's just two completely different functions you're trying to achieve: "show me all parts on the vessel" versus "show me what I clicked on". Having only one method to do these two different functions doesn't work.

Ideally, I think single-part right-click menu should have a 'pop-out' button to jump up to the global list if you need it for any reason.

15 hours ago, cocoscacao said:

There is a lot of useless clutter in it. Batteries, fuel tanks, static structural parts, basically anything that doesn't have some sort of state user can change (toggle antenna, lights, deploy fairing etc). It is a nice idea, if you for example ALT + click on several parts, you get their info in a confined space, instead all over the screen like in ksp 1. Maybe not remove it completely, but re-purpose it...

So much clutter - sometimes useful but often not. Filter buttons seem kind of essential. Show me only engine parts, or only crew cabins, or electricity generators.

[cocoscacao]

@Picard2 That's actually a good idea. Same set of icons as VAB's parts list. Then you can select engines or whatever, and you get everything grouped by stage then by symmetry.

Edited March 14, 2023 by cocoscacao

[Picard2]

5 minutes ago, cocoscacao said:

@Picard2 That's actually a good idea. Same set of icons as VAB's parts list. Then you can select engines or whatever, and you get everything grouped by stage then by symmetry.

Exactly. I'm just thinking about the mods for KSP1 which did the same global list thing - you just opened a convenient menu, filtered by whatever you wanted, easy. Having this built in would be great.

[cocoscacao]

6 minutes ago, cocoscacao said:

and you get everything grouped by stage then by symmetry.

Or maybe not... These things have to be considered carefully by game designers. What I've said above, about stage and symmetry grouping, doesn't make sense when you have a space station with N number of vessels docked to it

[Picard2]

Yes, I'm sure there's a lot of thought needed to go into these kinds of interfaces. And I do think that's been done for the part manager - it isn't perfect yet but it's doing a lot of stuff well, and doing it right. But just not doing it in the right places (or, doing it in places where a different method would work better).

[Fluke]

10 hours ago, K^2 said:

I think it's the right call overall, but it needs work. First of all, it obviously needs to be responsive. I don't know what the current code is doing, but that ain't it. Even if you have to rebuild the parts list, you shouldn't need several seconds to walk a tree of fewer than a billion parts. Secondly, it needs to be easier to actually navigate, and maybe keep some parts pinned, similar to the old system, or maybe have a favorites section there? Just some way of not having to hunt for everything all the time. But I do believe in the concept and that it can be better than what we used to have.

My guess is the 50% reduction in main thread UI comment from Nate has something to do with this. 

[Chilkoot]

11 hours ago, Sea_Kerman said:

One issue is the top and bottom margins are way too thick, you could cut the vertical size nearly in half.

 ———

Perfect example of overuse of whitespace at the expense of information flow and density.  Our perception quickly categorizes the information on the right into two usable chunks.

There's also the burning issue of "what's a CBL-375?".  With the new colorized skins, batteries, reaction wheels, command modules and other parts aren't easily distinguished in the ship view, and their part designation in the Parts Manager isn't helpful unless you know the part number by heart.

[Picard2]

18 minutes ago, Chilkoot said:

There's also the burning issue of "what's a CBL-375?".  With the new colorized skins, batteries, reaction wheels, command modules and other parts aren't easily distinguished in the ship view, and their part designation in the Parts Manager isn't helpful unless you know the part number by heart.

Even just sticking the VAB icons on there next to the part name would probably help a bit.

[Strawberry]

The part manager should really list off the part name instead of the part designation of parts, because yeah the CBL-375 thing just doesnt work well. I actually liked @Vl3d's suggestion here a lot of the layout, I think its a lot nicer and more readable.

 

Also you should be able to open multiple part manager lists at a time (also make the x button bigger please).

Edited March 14, 2023 by Strawberry

[shdwlrd]

I voted for Yay. The Parts Commander mod was a staple for my KSP1 games. It's very handy to use, but as a secondary option to access part options. In the VAB it's really not necessary since you can just right click the item you want. (As long as it's not hidden.) But in flight, it's a god send. 

The UI does need some work. Text scaling and listing sizes does need to be consistent between the VAB and flight. There also needs to be something other than the "dark mode" style they used. (Dark mode settings don't work well with me. The white letters will fade into the background the more fatigued my eyes get.)

[AlphaMensae]

I hate it, I want the PAWs back in all of their KSP1 style. The Part Commader has its uses, but it should be an option, not something that you're forced to use. When I can see the part I want to adjust, it's far simpler to just right click on it. Also, PAWs allows multiple parts to be viewed at once, like engines and tanks to see fuel flow, or seeing drag (using the Aero GUI) during flight.

The Part Commander is just one of those ideas that sounds better in theory than in practice, and is anoher example of Intercept changing things that already worked well just for the sake of changing them.

[LoSBoL]

Can I please have the paws back? I need to fill my screen... 

But more seriously, I like the parts manager, although it definitely needs some work, especially since you get half your info from the parts manager, and the other half in the resource manager.