Lach_01298 Posted October 25, 2023 Share Posted October 25, 2023 With the new For Science! update announced we saw the introduction of Dr Keri Kerman the head of Mission Control a position previously held by Gene Kerman, also with all this science where is the previous head of R&D Wernher von Kerman? Will they be back in KSP2 or have they been replaced? Has Wernher von Kerman be removed because of his history being tied to the Kazi party? I hope not because even though he had a troubled past he was very influential and important to the space program along with many other former Kazi scientists and engineers. Their history should not be forgotten or ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoomsdayDuck555 Posted October 25, 2023 Share Posted October 25, 2023 I heard that is was because Wernher is too controversial, but that was mostly speculation. But if that was the reason, that is pretty stupid. He joined the pedant party out of necessity to further his rocket r&d, and out of safety. There is no evidence of him doing anything besides furthering his rocket research while in the SS. I believe that his importance outweighs the potential controversy around him. I see no reason not to have Gene Kranz represented in game. I guess he is already replaced by PAIGE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superfluous J Posted October 26, 2023 Share Posted October 26, 2023 Because different games have different characters in them. Does it really matter all that much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDCWolf Posted October 26, 2023 Share Posted October 26, 2023 11 minutes ago, Superfluous J said: Because different games have different characters in them. Does it really matter all that much? Yes it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superfluous J Posted October 26, 2023 Share Posted October 26, 2023 1 minute ago, PDCWolf said: Yes it does. Irrefutable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Liao Posted October 26, 2023 Share Posted October 26, 2023 16 minutes ago, Superfluous J said: Irrefutable You do realize that quite a lot of players have nostalgia for Werhner and Gene Kerman, right? Even if it's not entirely justified (think old Minecraft versions), people like to cling onto the old because they don't like change. It's human nature. And besides, KSP2 doesn't occur in universe after KSP1, does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superfluous J Posted October 26, 2023 Share Posted October 26, 2023 10 minutes ago, Great Liao said: You do realize that quite a lot of players have nostalgia for Werhner and Gene Kerman, right? Even if it's not entirely justified (think old Minecraft versions), people like to cling onto the old because they don't like change. It's human nature. And besides, KSP2 doesn't occur in universe after KSP1, does it? At the risk of being called Woke (which I'll always think is an odd insult as the alternative is "asleep" but anyway), did it ever occur to you that with the exception of Valentina, there are zero named female characters in all of KSP1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Liao Posted October 26, 2023 Share Posted October 26, 2023 9 minutes ago, Superfluous J said: At the risk of being called Woke (which I'll always think is an odd insult as the alternative is "asleep" but anyway), did it ever occur to you that with the exception of Valentina, there are zero named female characters in all of KSP1? First off, Kerbals are agender. Second, random characters. Third, Werhner and Gene Kerman are part of the franchise at this point. Are you going to uproot all that for "paige" and that other scientist kerbal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James M Posted October 26, 2023 Share Posted October 26, 2023 I'd make the argument that all original 4 kerbals along with any Kerbals that were present in KSP1 for historical reasons should still be around SOMEWHERE in KSP2. Removing them seems weird. And maybe "woke" in some cases. If anything, new Kerbals should be added to that historical roster such as Goddard, Shephard, Sally Ride, Etc. The main audience of Kerbal are space fans. Appeal to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexTheNotSoGreat Posted October 26, 2023 Share Posted October 26, 2023 1 hour ago, Superfluous J said: Because different games have different characters in them. Does it really matter all that much? Meanwhile Bill, Bob, Jeb, and Val: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superfluous J Posted October 26, 2023 Share Posted October 26, 2023 3 minutes ago, AlexTheNotSoGreat said: Meanwhile Bill, Bob, Jeb, and Val: If they dropped them I'd not care in the least. 32 minutes ago, Great Liao said: First off, Kerbals are agender. Second, random characters. Third, Werhner and Gene Kerman are part of the franchise at this point. Are you going to uproot all that for "paige" and that other scientist kerbal? Sure. I don't think of Wherner or Gene at all unless someone brings them up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Liao Posted October 26, 2023 Share Posted October 26, 2023 5 minutes ago, Superfluous J said: Sure. I don't think of Wherner or Gene at all unless someone brings them up. Well, you can't exactly speak for everyone. We all know for a fact that several people are confused about this, and possibly not happy with the change, because they cared. If you didn't care, then you woudn't respond, would you? You must care in some degree in order to actually respond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superfluous J Posted October 26, 2023 Share Posted October 26, 2023 4 minutes ago, Great Liao said: Well, you can't exactly speak for everyone. We all know for a fact that several people are confused about this, and possibly not happy with the change, because they cared. If you didn't care, then you woudn't respond, would you? You must care in some degree in order to actually respond. I don't care about Gene or Wherner being removed. I do care when people oppose minor changes in games that increase representation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarecrow71 Posted October 26, 2023 Share Posted October 26, 2023 I don't care in the least. Male, female, agender...doesn't matter to me. I don't select Kerbals for missions based on gender; I select them based on which names are the weirdest or funniest at the time. And if all the names rhyme or are a variation of a theme, even better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James M Posted October 26, 2023 Share Posted October 26, 2023 13 minutes ago, Superfluous J said: I don't care about Gene or Wherner being removed. I do care when people oppose minor changes in games that increase representation. How does this increase representation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regex Posted October 26, 2023 Share Posted October 26, 2023 Good riddance. They should get rid of all the other auto-spawn named Kerbals too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Liao Posted October 26, 2023 Share Posted October 26, 2023 33 minutes ago, Superfluous J said: I don't care about Gene or Wherner being removed. I do care when people oppose minor changes in games that increase representation. It should be pretty clear to you by now that a lot of people do care about Gene and Werner, because they are historic characters who have stuck with the game for a long time. In short, they're iconic and part of Kerbalness itself. Most of us remember dialouges with Gene in Career Mode or talking to Werner, and we cherish those happy nostalgic times. Gene and Werner are symbols of the old Kerbal community, a thriving happy community ready to discover anything around the corner. Just replacing them with soulless blank copies because of "representation" will not satisify anyone. And who cares? Kerbals are agender anyway, they're not human. Val could just be built different. You may not care about the old Kerbal community, but a lot of us do. Werner is a symbol of happier times - Why remove him? He's a character we all know and love. #SaveWerhner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strawberry Posted October 26, 2023 Share Posted October 26, 2023 (edited) [Snip] Oh gene kranz is a pretty good guy, did a lot of good, no real like, super problematic stuff there. Probably just replaced because its a new game with new people. Edited October 26, 2023 by James Kerman Redacted by a moderator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lach_01298 Posted October 26, 2023 Author Share Posted October 26, 2023 I'm all for adding new Kerbals. It just that I think Gene and Wernher are Iconic. I'm sure there will be plenty of opportunities to introduce new Kerbals with different Jobs. A space program is run by more than 2 people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superfluous J Posted October 26, 2023 Share Posted October 26, 2023 The fact that Wherner could spawn this debate at all is enough reason to get rid of him, or even better never have had him in the first place. Gene is fine and all but other than "I miss him" I don't see any particular reason to want him in the game. What exactly does he provide that this new character does not? Nostalgia? Can you not have nostalgia without his name under the Kerbal in Mission Control? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Liao Posted October 26, 2023 Share Posted October 26, 2023 1 minute ago, Strawberry said: Oh gene kranz is a pretty good guy, did a lot of good, no real like, super problematic stuff there. Probably just replaced because its a new game with new people. I feel we should keep Gene then. He is nostalgic, after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lach_01298 Posted October 26, 2023 Author Share Posted October 26, 2023 For example I'm all for Katherine Kerman (Katherine Johnson) to tell me about the importance of orbital mechanics and transfer windows in the tracking station. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James M Posted October 26, 2023 Share Posted October 26, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Superfluous J said: The fact that Wherner could spawn this debate at all is enough reason to get rid of him, or even better never have had him in the first place. Gene is fine and all but other than "I miss him" I don't see any particular reason to want him in the game. What exactly does he provide that this new character does not? Nostalgia? Can you not have nostalgia without his name under the Kerbal in Mission Control? It's not about nostalgia. It's about replacing historical figures. It isn't necessary. The only reason to remove these two characters was to appeal to a vocal minority of the ksp community. The devs talk about how they want to draw in new people to play ksp and inspire future space enthusiasts but then what, we erase the questionable parts of history for those new people because a few other people complained that they didn't like looking at an ugly part of history? C'mon man. Also, anything controversial SHOULD be debated. It's how we grow. We can't always just hide our problems away. Edited October 26, 2023 by James M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bej Kerman Posted October 26, 2023 Share Posted October 26, 2023 2 hours ago, PDCWolf said: Yes it does. I think the fact an argument spawned over a couple Kerbals not appearing is proof people at this point are scraping the barrel for muck to throw at KSP 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James M Posted October 26, 2023 Share Posted October 26, 2023 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said: I think the fact an argument spawned over a couple Kerbals not appearing is proof people at this point are scraping the barrel for muck to throw at KSP 2. What part of our discussion insinuates that I intend to throw muck at KSP2? I've always been an advocate for this game's future and I remain so now. Please do not twist my words. Thanks. Edited October 26, 2023 by James M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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