LET'S MAKE KSP GREAT AGAIN!!!

[Andrew1233]

So Im watching yt, and I found this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53ajP9ervzI. I agree with him, and I think we can change this situation. LETS DO THIS!!!!!!!!! But how?  

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by Andrew1233

[Nazalassa]

Suggestion: the source must flow!

[Hotel26]

4 minutes ago, Nazalassa said:

Suggestion: the source must flow!

Precisely.

Bring back Felipe.

Fire all the fans full of ideas but no code.  "Community input", so-called, should be via code with pull request.

Nothing good has ever been done in the computer industry "by committee".  Nada...

Wishful thinking?  Sure, but so refreshing and so very well-earned after five years of listening to the "cargo cult" wail for KSP2.

[AstroWolfie]

I think that we should be able to keep supporting the game, so sure. let the source flow! Also, they could add some of these new planets in so people could visit them on a lower performance pc. For the community input, the devs should create tutorials on how to code the game. now that would be cool.

[Lisias]

On 10/27/2023 at 5:24 AM, Hotel26 said:

Bring back Felipe.

I second that. The original team may not had made everything right on first try, but they were like a dog with a bone: they persisted until things got tight!

 

On 10/27/2023 at 5:24 AM, Hotel26 said:

Nothing good has ever been done in the computer industry "by committee".  Nada...

Well, the committee members would sure disagree!  (as well some CI/CD providers…)

Cheers!

Edited November 10, 2023 by Lisias
yeah, tyops. But you alreday knew it. :)

[Nazalassa]

The committee to make KSP great again would disagree, too.

[Bej Kerman]

On 10/27/2023 at 9:24 AM, Hotel26 said:

Bring back Felipe.

They're busy.

On 10/27/2023 at 9:24 AM, Hotel26 said:

Fire all the fans full of ideas but no code.  "Community input", so-called, should be via code with pull request.

You know how to code. Very excellent. But from one human to another, there are more subtle ways of saying you don't like hearing from people who don't know how to program

On 11/10/2023 at 12:11 AM, Lisias said:

I second that. The original team may not had made everything right on first try, but they were like a dog with a bone: they persisted until things got tight!

So tight, in fact, that it took many years to get a dV indicator

On 10/27/2023 at 2:01 AM, Andrew1233 said:

So Im watching yt, and I found this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53ajP9ervzI. I agree with him, and I think we can change this situation. LETS DO THIS!!!!!!!!! But how?  

This person knows how to drag and drop a powerpoint slide into their image editor of choice then scribble on it. Very trustworthy

[Lisias]

10 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

So tight, in fact, that it took many years to get a dV indicator

Fact. On the other hand, KSP2 is being developed for so many years as KSP¹ took to reach 1.0 - so time to market doesn't appears to be exactly detrimental to the developers, do you agree?

KSP¹ were developed by a bunch of dudes cutting their teeth into the market, literally hacking and slashing their way on the problem until getting it while learning - the most text book example of an Indie development.

[Bej Kerman]

1 minute ago, Lisias said:

Fact. On the other hand, KSP2 is being developed for so many years as KSP¹ took to reach 1.0 - so time to market doesn't appears to be exactly detrimental to the developers, do you agree?

It was definitely detrimental for the players who had to wait.

2 minutes ago, Lisias said:

KSP¹ were developed by a bunch of dudes cutting their teeth into the market, literally hacking and slashing their way on the problem until getting it while learning - the most text book example of an Indie development.

That was impressive, not so much managing to go through all of that while holding off on implementing useful mods into stock.

[Lisias]

8 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

It was definitely detrimental for the players who had to wait.

You see, I don't think that players at that time would agree with you. KSP¹ 1.0 were released on late 2015, April. And they got a very, very warm reception!

As a matter of fact, even before the 1.0 KSP¹ were enjoying a minimum of 4K players online, and a peak of about 9K!!!

https://steamcharts.com/app/220200#All

Edited November 17, 2023 by Lisias
Need stronger Coffee. :-P

[Bej Kerman]

9 hours ago, Lisias said:

You see, I don't think that players at that time would agree with you. KSP¹ 1.0 were released on late 2015, April. And they got a very, very warm reception!

I suppose it's impressive the developers managed to woo the playerbase into accepting a 1.0 that lacks a lot of basic features.

9 hours ago, Lisias said:

As a matter of fact, even before the 1.0 KSP¹ were enjoying a minimum of 4K players online, and a peak of about 9K!!!

Means nothing, especially given the game lacked competition.

[AtomicTech]

6 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

I suppose it's impressive the developers managed to woo the playerbase into accepting a 1.0 that lacks a lot of basic features.

The community welcomed 1.0 because it had new features, was more stable, and opened the doors to more modding.

[Bej Kerman]

35 minutes ago, AtomicTech said:

The community welcomed 1.0 because it had new features, was more stable, and opened the doors to more modding.

Bar shoulda been higher then, cause none of the new features included a dV indicator or anything to measure the capabilities of your rocket.

[AtomicTech]

1 hour ago, Bej Kerman said:

Bar shoulda been higher then, cause none of the new features included a dV indicator or anything to measure the capabilities of your rocket.

"Shoulda" being the wrong word here.

We are not here to change the past; last I checked I wasn't in Meet the Robinsons or 1984.

[Ryaja]

On 10/27/2023 at 2:07 AM, Nazalassa said:

Suggestion: the source must flow!

As cool as I think this would be KSP1 is still most likely the main income source; this would bottleneck any future KSP2 development.

[Bej Kerman]

1 minute ago, Ryaja said:

As cool as I think this would be KSP1 is still most likely the main income source; this would bottleneck any future KSP2 development.

What do you mean?

[Ryaja]

2 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

What do you mean?

The main source of income for the project is still probably ksp sales; so open sourcing it could destroy that & dissuade people from getting ksp2

[Nazalassa]

7 hours ago, Ryaja said:

The main source of income for the project is still probably ksp sales; so open sourcing it could destroy that & dissuade people from getting ksp2

No: if only the code is open-source, the assets won't. And you need the assets to play the game. So making KSP's source code available (and the code only) does not mean that suddenly one can play KSP for free. You will still need the assets, which you get by buying KSP.

[Lisias]

On 11/17/2023 at 9:44 PM, Ryaja said:

The main source of income for the project is still probably ksp sales; so open sourcing it could destroy that & dissuade people from getting ksp2

@Nazalassa already nailed it, but there's an elephant in the room that people usually ignores; KSP¹'s source code is already on the wild for people that don't care about ethics, EULA, and even Laws on the more borderline situations.

Forum policies prevent me to openly debate the details here, so unless you would be willing to discuss this matter on some other place, please believe me on this one: the only people without access to KSP¹'s source code are the ones not technically able to, the ones without the right connections and the ones willing to follow the rules.

Edited November 19, 2023 by Lisias
Hit "Save" too soon.

[GluttonyReaper]

If KSP1 started receiving regular updates again through open source contributions, that would put it in direct competition with KSP2, no? That just... doesn't seem like a good idea from a business perspective, especially given that KSP1 is both cheaper and current more feature-complete. Not to mention that a good chunk of KSP2's potential buyers are people who already own KSP1.

It's a neat idea, but I doubt it'll happen unfortunately. The best case scenario is that we get an extra update or two to fix some of the worst outstanding bugs, and perhaps open up some additional modding flexibility... but other than that, I think it's fine to let KSP1 rest. Not every game needs to be updated in perpetuity.

[Lisias]

On 11/20/2023 at 8:34 AM, GluttonyReaper said:

If KSP1 started receiving regular updates again through open source contributions, that would put it in direct competition with KSP2, no? That just... doesn't seem like a good idea from a business perspective, especially given that KSP1 is both cheaper and current more feature-complete. Not to mention that a good chunk of KSP2's potential buyers are people who already own KSP1.

I spent some time thinking about, and then I remember that Cities:Skylines have exactly the same "problem": a very prestigious older version still being sold, and the new release getting some heat due bugs.

Digging Steam about it, I came to this:

The complete Cities: Skylines Collection is being sold, right now, by R$ 1.106.66 (local currency), while the Sequel in the Ultimate Edition (already?) is now R$ 379,99.

It worths to mention that, as well KSP¹ vs KSP2, the Original Cities works on Windows, MacOS and Steam (Linux), while the Cities II only on Windows.

Cities: Skylines have a ton of DLCs, while KSP¹ have only two - so, obviously, the pricing should reflect this.

Perhaps we should follow what's happening with the Cities: Skylines franchise to see if there's some lessons to be learnt?

— — POST EDIT — — 

Or perhaps not. Skylines II started pretty well, but currently it's at the same level than the Prequel.

Still better than KSP2, but yet...

Spoiler

https://steamcharts.com/cmp/255710,949230#3m

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by Lisias
POST EDIT