Parts & Vessels Wheels having A Single Point Of Contact Is Causing Various Issues

[Zincboy]

Reported Version: v0.2.0 (latest) | Mods: none | Can replicate without mods? Yes 
OS: windows 11 | CPU: i5-10300H | GPU: rtx 3050 (laptop) | RAM: 16gb

 

My rover is having weird problems while trying to climb a mountain. It's spinning, sometimes it will sort of "teleport" into a different position. See video for a better description.

 

Included Attachments:

 

Edited April 20 by The Space Peacock

[Stephensan]

Reported Version: v0.2.1 (latest) | Mods: none | Can replicate without mods? Yes 
OS: Windows 11 | CPU: 7900x | GPU: 4070 ti | RAM: 128 GB

 

Wheels having a single point of contact (in the middle) cause (separate bugs) but all originate from the same bug these bugs would be separate but it seems it has the same one cause, bugs such as:

• Wheels Getting Phantom Wheel Speed/Direction Causing Harder Control Of The Craft
• Wheels Merging Into Ground
• Wheels Merging Into Ground Cauing Craft/Rover Go "Balistic" In An Uncontrolled Manner
• Wheels Fall Off When Immense Phantom Forces Pushes It Back "Out Of The Ground"

and I do not know the rest, but all the issues orginate from how the wheel ground collider is just a "sliver"

The video shows what not taking care of the "bugs" can do to the craft, but it doesn't matter cause the phantom forces usually take much more control rather than the user, and or destroy part(s) before total control again.

 

Included Attachments:

Player.log

Ksp2.log

NewWorkspace.json

Edited April 20 by Stephensan
fixed/formated

[The Space Peacock]

yup, have experienced this too. wheels can also appear to spin backwards if you hold the S button while still moving forward, which is more of a visual bug but still quite jarring

[Jeq]

Rover destroying thing happens too when rover itself is tilted almost on its sides and wheel gets contact to ground, it might bounce vessel to sideways trajectory at lower than Kerbin gravity.

I suggest developers stop using Unity wheel assest and find better wheel assest or make their own, which is physically close to correct. Wheels in unity defies physical calculations.

It feels currently, when one wheel touches ground and it is rolling hard, game calculates only that rolling speed to apply force to whole vessel before it tries to calculate mass of that wheel and its ability to generate such an forces. Same goes for it's springs.

It also feels wheels aren't designed for physic ragdroll tree systems, which KSP uses. They should be made to support ragdoll above them, current wheel physics assumes car body is rigid and doesn't have complicated forces going in it.

Edited January 13 by Jeq

[Anth]

54 minutes ago, Stephensan said:

 

Response from a QA team member

That's in response to your video with the TR4 wheels.

[Drathfox]

I feel your pain. experienced from different wheels, different celestial bodies, same problem.

[Drathfox]

When the wheel is tilted slightly to its side on the ground that's when there is a large amount of spring force to fling the craft around it seems.
From my experience I noticed the steering direction will invert on some wheels periodically while tumbling around.

[Bedkow]

Reported Version: v0.2.0 (latest) | Mods: maneuver node related | Can replicate without mods? Yes 
OS: Win 10 | CPU: i7-10000k | GPU: rtx 3070 | RAM: 32gb

RoveMax TR-2L wheels produce phantom forces/impulses while angled around >45 degrees relative to the ground and touching the ground. It makes the craft move in unpredictable directions and change speed on its own. It happens on Mun and Minimus. I reproduced it on Kerbin too but as the gravity is higher, it's harder.

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[The Space Peacock]

@Bedkow merged your report

Edited December 30, 2023 by The Space Peacock

[Jaypeg]

On 12/23/2023 at 10:46 AM, The Space Peacock said:

yup, have experienced this too. wheels can also appear to spin backwards if you hold the S button while still moving forward, which is more of a visual bug but still quite jarring

that would be a friction/drag problem I believe? Or maybe wheel rotation graphics doesn't have to do with the actual wheel itself

[The Space Peacock]

2 hours ago, Jaypeg said:

Or maybe wheel rotation graphics doesn't have to do with the actual wheel itself

i think this is whats happening there; it's almost like the wheels get out of sync with the movement  of the craft. Again, it's just a minor visual thing, but it does look quite odd when it happens. the bigger bug here is the random 'teleporting' rovers seem to sometimes do which can easily lead to a crash

[Vortygont]

This bug happens to me a lot in 0.2, I tried for now in Exploration campaign only RoveMax S2 wheels and don't know what happens with others. It's important bug because on planets with atmospheres (and not only with them) it is difficult to land precisely and you need rover to explore so kerbals will not on foot always. For example in Duna Monument mission my landing precision was ~3km, and I built rover for my kerbals to don't make them walk and drive to place fast. It's game breaking when you always have physic kicks after changing timewarp or every 1 km.

[pg17]

Happened to me too both on the Mun and Minmus (though I admit, Minmus very low gravity is more suited for a hopper than a rover).

The most frustrating thing is that even if you quicksave a lot, there is a good chance that when loading back the rover will lose speed during the loading time and your rover will start to go "over heels" when you get back control (as is the case when you press the brake button at full speed). Sure it can be mitigated with a better rover design and by slowing down before quicksaving but it can be really painful and frustrating. 

[Stephensan]

There is suppose to be a self quote here of the video i did

 

Response from a QA team member

Edited April 20 by Stephensan
self quote didn't work

[Stephensan]

5 minutes ago, Anth said:

That's in response to your video with the TR4 wheels.

i self qutoed and it didn't put it in there for that post.

[Anonymous Bug Reporter]

Reported Version: v0.2.1 (latest) | Mods: none | Can replicate without mods? Yes 
OS: Windows 10 | CPU: I7, unsure of exact model, it is a couple years old though | GPU: GTX 1080 Ti | RAM: 16GB

Im unsure if this happens on other celestial bodies but i recently sent a rover to Eve, it was a very small rover and its wheels were tilted because it looked better, made it smaller and worked the same as normal when testing on Kerbin, when this rover got to Eve for whatever reason it would start making the wheels rapidly bounce and flip the rover sometimes completely obliterating it when it had the brakes on, it also would randomly destroy or flip itself quite often without any warning signs when driving, it happened to me multiple times causing me to keep having to go to a previous quicksave due to the game saving after each time the rover crashes. Some of the times it happened i managed to catch the speed i was going, one time it was around 7m/s and the other around 2m/s i have inserted a picture of the rover down below, i havent had this issue ever in ksp 1, although eve did still tend to make crafts a bit janky in my experience, hope this helps tho, Thank you

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