Spicat Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 (edited) One year has passed since the game released and after playing quite a while, I found that the UI still lacks some stuff. With the recent UI dev update I have decided to make some UI/UX design proposals of things that are a bit limited in my opinion. I would really hope all those make into the game! Color Manager Color presets: Being able to save a set of color you like. Would even be good to have default preset for people that don't have the artistic eye. (Inspired by this mod: https://spacedock.info/mod/3317/Color presets) Added Red, Green and Blue input for precise entry Added Hexadecimal input Added a color picker to select a color that you previously placed on your rocket. One of my most anticipated feature for the color manager, currently you have to painfully match the color you previously set. Change "restore" to "use" in "restore agency colors", find it more clear like that (because I thought it was for resetting the agency color to the initial value before it was changed). Trip planner Version 1: Being able to edit the "from" body and not just set as Kerbin Can set the altitude we want for the departure/destination with some preset (Inspired by this website: https://www.deltacalculator.com/ksp/deltavcalculator/) Added a toggle for aerobraking Reorganized the list of bodies, it's currently sorted alphabetically but imo it should be sorted by the distance from Kerbol with some offset for the moons. Version 2: Approximately the same ideas but if devs don't want to scare off new players but still have some missing information they could have an advanced panel (Inspired by the sorting menu in the science inventory in the game): This version just allows for a bit more place and thus you can select some precise aerobraking options (Inspired by this website: https://suppise-dv-calculator.com) Experiment popup I find this experiment button quite useful (some might disagree) but when I click on it I have no idea what I trigger. Thus I think it should be good to show the status of every science experiment on the craft. Heating indicators The current indicator seems a bit beta-ish, I added a border and rounded corners and I find those much nicer and visible. Engineer's report Missing opportunity to add an icon when there is a warning or an error. Bugs Also there are still a lot of UI/UX bugs that still need fixing, don't overlook them! Spoiler Map Planet tooltip stays on left click "Right click trajectory" tooltip menu diseappear Maneuver node hidden behind CB Camera speed affecter by approaching CB poles Buildings Going to the tracking station retains timewarp restriction Text A megathread about tracking station errors "Time warp limited due to proximity to celestial body" wrong message Could put every typo on there but it's easier to have the full list Don't forget other languages Chinese Japanese Polish German and another Hope all of that can be useful and that you got the opportunity to get ideas (I didn't include the maneuver editor because there is a mod that do it very well already). Edited March 7 by Spicat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephensan Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 Approve of all of this, small but impactful stuff.. #DevsPleaseAdd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suppise Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 All of these are sorely needed, would massively improve the user experience. one other far more minor suggestion that the ones presented here would be to increase the font size of the twr/burn time/etc readouts when expanding staging info, they’re borderline unreadable atm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DibzNr Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 Intercept hire this man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planterium Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 Tear down this wall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superfluous J Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 Normally I don't like posts with multiple suggestions, because I never like all of the suggestions and so don't want to thumbs-up the post and imply I like something I do not. That was not a problem here. Every single suggestion is great! 3 hours ago, Spicat said: I find this experiment button quite useful (some might disagree) but when I click on it I have no idea what I trigger. Thus I think it should be good to show the status of every science experiment on the craft. I would like to add "run experiment" buttons to the "tooltip" so you could easily run specific experiments if you so chose. In fact, that button could be expanded so the "science reports" button at the bottom of the screen wouldn't be needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darta01 Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 Loved all your suggestions. Your Trip Planner version 1 is already self explanatory, I don't think the second version is needed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyal Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 These are all absolutely needed. Very thoughtful und very good visualized!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Aziz Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 10 hours ago, Spicat said: Being able to edit the "from" body and not just set as Kerbin If it's not there by the time we're able to launch rockets off-Kerbin (which is in next milestone update), the devs have failed. I know it's early access and some things are still rough... But they're SO rough that I'm starting to wonder just why are they focusing so much on new content if existing content is acting mostly as placeholders. I was told they have amazing writers and UI designers, and we're left with something like Generic Text For Science Report, Kerbol circumference measured in lightyears, and Kerbin return trip showing 3400m/s from low orbit to surface. 10 hours ago, Spicat said: I added a border and rounded corners and I find those much nicer and visible My dude you added two pixels to each corner, that's not rounded, that's pixelized. You know, the one thing people are hoping to no longer see in the interface? Agreed on making it more visible but can we please move on from the 90's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowi_Sace Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 Nice designs. These minor UI changes would really improve the game. Hope the DEVs see this and improve the UI over its curerend state I would also like a improved maneuver planner UI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnemoe Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 Very good ideas, my vote is the color manager, add an number for transparency too. But the detailed research opportunity tab is also an good idea. Also remove the restriction to plan burns higher than your dV shown. For one its pretty often bugged. After landing on Duna my dV showed 0, I knew it was over 2300 m/s before takeoff but I could not set up an circulation node. Yes that I could handled only by burning prograde at Ap but have fun setting up an intercept trajectory to mothership. I was able to fix it by staging the engine again. Worse I undocked my lander from mothership around Ike, it had around 1200 dV but it showed 76, who would probably be if lander was pushing the interplanetary ship, here staging or even restart worked, had to reload an earlier game. It also legitimize reason for doing to long burns like having an targeting satellite to plan your burn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowi_Sace Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 15 hours ago, magnemoe said: Also remove the restriction to plan burns higher than your dV shown. For one its pretty often bugged. After landing on Duna my dV showed 0, I knew it was over 2300 m/s before takeoff but I could not set up an circulation node. Yes that I could handled only by burning prograde at Ap but have fun setting up an intercept trajectory to mothership. I was able to fix it by staging the engine again. Might be harder said then done. The maneuver planner takes the path the ship takes during the burn into account and thereby also calculates the effect of the weight the ship loses due to the burning of fuel. That would mean that the fuel will get negative mass after that or stays the same which will not give a precise maneuver path. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darta01 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 (edited) On 3/2/2024 at 11:46 AM, Lowi_Sace said: Might be harder said then done. The maneuver planner takes the path the ship takes during the burn into account and thereby also calculates the effect of the weight the ship loses due to the burning of fuel. That would mean that the fuel will get negative mass after that or stays the same which will not give a precise maneuver path. That's just another reason why the current maneuver planner system is so bad. Why have a maneuver planner that does not let you plan maneuvers? In KSP1 I often place a small satellite in Kerbin orbit with the sole purpose to plan interplanetary maneuvers. For instance I set a maneuver to Duna with it, so that I know the departure time, and the direction of the burn (inclination, ascending/descending node...), and it allows me to launch an interplanetary mission from KSC directly on the correct path, as well as planning it with the correct Delta-V. In KSP2 this not possible anymore, because it would require the satellite to have enough fuel for any burn I want to perform, and have the TWR of my future mission... KSP1 maneuver tool is better than the current KSP2 one. However, KSP2's tool lacks just little things that would make it so much better. It's just a question of design choice Edited March 7 by Darta01 corrected a typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Aziz Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 How is it better if the burn ends up inaccurate anyway because all you see is an instantaneous change in velocity, physically impossible? KSP2s planner can't let you plan beyond your current fuel capacity because it has nothing to make the calculations. Your mass, speed, TWR, whatever can't change when you run out of fuel, and so the predicted path can't change either. With planning tools, already partially and a bit rushedly implemented, you shouldn't need a separate craft to plan stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superfluous J Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 1 hour ago, Darta01 said: Why have a maneuver planner that does not let you to plan maneuvers? It lets me plan maneuvers. I agree that I'd like a node like what KSP1 has. However, I'd like it in ADDITION to the node we have now in KSP2, with a separate use case. I've wanted a true "planning node" for (almost) a decade now. Maybe some day we'll get one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darta01 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 1 hour ago, Superfluous J said: I agree that I'd like a node like what KSP1 has. However, I'd like it in ADDITION to the node we have now in KSP2, with a separate use case. I've wanted a true "planning node" for (almost) a decade now. Maybe some day we'll get one. Yes, I don't think the current KSP2 maneuver tool should be totally discarded. The ideal maneuver tool I would like is similar to the one present in the KSP1 mod Principia : you can switch between three calculation mods : Instant impulse. Similar to the vanilla maneuver calculation. Not realistic for long duration burns but good enough for planning trips. Inertially fixed. It computes a continuous burn with a fixed direction of thrust. Similar to the current KSP2 tool, useful for plane change maneuvers or changing the apsides direction. Not inertially fixed. The continuous burn is computed in the orbital frame along the predicted path. Useful for apsides rising/decreasing If only one solution should be kept, I'd rather have the instant impulse of KSP1 than the current KSP2 one, but I agree it is less than ideal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darta01 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 2 hours ago, The Aziz said: How is it better if the burn ends up inaccurate anyway because all you see is an instantaneous change in velocity, physically impossible? KSP2s planner can't let you plan beyond your current fuel capacity because it has nothing to make the calculations. Your mass, speed, TWR, whatever can't change when you run out of fuel, and so the predicted path can't change either. Well the current tool has its limitation : what if I take some time to stage? If I start later or earlier? If I don't burn at 100% thrust? If I burn with RCS? Besides, the direction of thrust computed by the tool is completly wrong for a lot of use cases. For apoapsides rising/decreasing, lunar trajectories, or planet encounters, I do a much better job in terms of Delta-V than the maneuver tool by controlling my vessel to burn prograde or retrograde, something the current tool is not capable of. By doing so, I can achieve almost the same Delta-V an instant impulse tool would compute. So yes, I continue to affirm KSP1 maneuver tool is a better planning tool in terms of Delta-V optimality than KSP2. 2 hours ago, The Aziz said: With planning tools, already partially and a bit rushedly implemented, you shouldn't need a separate craft to plan stuff. The trip planner in the VAB only gives the Delta-V necessary (Delta-V computed as instant impulse I guess...). When I launch an interplanetary mission I like to know the orbital elements of the required escape trajectory, because it is inclined in most cases. With a separate spacecraft as a trip planner, I can launch from KSC directly aligned with the escape trajectory because I can see it in map view when I set the satellite as target. Therefore I do not need to perform a plane change combined with the escape burn, and so the whole trip is less Delta-V consuming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnemoe Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 (edited) On 3/2/2024 at 11:46 AM, Lowi_Sace said: Might be harder said then done. The maneuver planner takes the path the ship takes during the burn into account and thereby also calculates the effect of the weight the ship loses due to the burning of fuel. That would mean that the fuel will get negative mass after that or stays the same which will not give a precise maneuver path. You have an good point. But I currently have an issue with an lander at Duna, it has 2800 m/s fully loaded. Because an weird bug its shown as 1180 m/s. Its just visible values, it can easy get back to orbit and an 120 m/s burn uses less than 60 m/s, but it causes problem trying to make nodes like circulation. Weirdly the bug also causes all burns to show as far to short, suspect game think lander have much less fuel than it have even if total and dry mass is correct. I would say if your out of fuel just don't account for mass going down any more yes its incorrect but here its broken anyway. K2-D2 calculates correct burn time. Edited March 7 by magnemoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abelinoss Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 (edited) I'm still missing the option to overwrite dv requirements, and an option to add multiple destinations in the Trip Planner. For the rest, YES PLEASE. I need this yesterday (and another post I made back then too:) Edited March 7 by Abelinoss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizzlebop Smith Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 Agreed that these elements should be incorporated into the base game If existing code from mod community is used, acknowledgements made. Great job to the mod community... and those thay have worked so hard to provide a series of templates for others to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Aziz Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 2 hours ago, Darta01 said: what if I take some time to stage? If I start later or earlier? That's on you for being inaccurate, not the planner, you'd end up off course in both games. It tells you where to start, stop and stage to get the best results. If you don't do as it says, blame yourself, not the tool. 2 hours ago, Darta01 said: If I don't burn at 100% thrust? It takes PAM thrust limiter into account as well. 2 hours ago, Darta01 said: If I burn with RCS? Once we're able to assign RCS to throttle, it should work, easy. Though you're beginning to cherrypick here, it's KSP, it cannot possibly predict every stupid design the players come up with, but it doesn't make it any less valid. 2 hours ago, Darta01 said: I do a much better job in terms of Delta-V than the maneuver tool by controlling my vessel to burn prograde or retrograde, something the current tool is not capable of. There's a button to follow the maneuver marker. Don't just hit prograde because you'll end up nowhere during longer burns, as you're going on an ellipse, not straight line. 2 hours ago, Darta01 said: So yes, I continue to affirm KSP1 maneuver tool is a better planning tool in terms of Delta-V optimality than KSP2. Been to Moho lately? I have, and noticed a significant difference that makes the KSP1 "halfway to node at Pe" inferior by a long margin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abelinoss Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 Also, I had this idea in my mind for a while and decided to make a post about it now too: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalessin1 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 On 3/1/2024 at 8:29 AM, Spicat said: One year has passed since the game released and after playing quite a while, I found that the UI still lacks some stuff. With the recent UI dev update I have decided to make some UI/UX design proposals of things that are a bit limited in my opinion. I would really hope all those make into the game! Color Manager Color presets: Being able to save a set of color you like. Would even be good to have default preset for people that don't have the artistic eye. (Inspired by this mod: https://spacedock.info/mod/3317/Color presets) Added Red, Green and Blue input for precise entry Added Hexadecimal input Added a color picker to select a color that you previously placed on your rocket. One of my most anticipated feature for the color manager, currently you have to painfully match the color you previously set. Change "restore" to "use" in "restore agency colors", find it more clear like that (because I thought it was for resetting the agency color to the initial value before it was changed). Trip planner Version 1: Being able to edit the "from" body and not just set as Kerbin Can set the altitude we want for the departure/destination with some preset (Inspired by this website: https://www.deltacalculator.com/ksp/deltavcalculator/) Added a toggle for aerobraking Reorganized the list of bodies, it's currently sorted alphabetically but imo it should be sorted by the distance from Kerbol with some offset for the moons. Version 2: Approximately the same ideas but if devs don't want to scare off new players but still have some missing information they could have an advanced panel (Inspired by the sorting menu in the science inventory in the game): This version just allows for a bit more place and thus you can select some precise aerobraking options (Inspired by this website: https://suppise-dv-calculator.com) Experiment popup I find this experiment button quite useful (some might disagree) but when I click on it I have no idea what I trigger. Thus I think it should be good to show the status of every science experiment on the craft. Heating indicators The current indicator seems a bit beta-ish, I added a border and rounded corners and I find those much nicer and visible. Engineer's report Missing opportunity to add an icon when there is a warning or an error. Bugs Also there are still a lot of UI/UX bugs that still need fixing, don't overlook them! Reveal hidden contents Map Planet tooltip stays on left click "Right click trajectory" tooltip menu diseappear Maneuver node hidden behind CB Camera speed affecter by approaching CB poles Buildings Going to the tracking station retains timewarp restriction Text A megathread about tracking station errors "Time warp limited due to proximity to celestial body" wrong message Could put every typo on there but it's easier to have the full list Don't forget other languages Chinese Japanese Polish German and another Hope all of that can be useful and that you got the opportunity to get ideas (I didn't include the maneuver editor because there is a mod that do it very well already). Wow, that's really great job! I would only suggest one more thing: some indicator in map view about part overheating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darta01 Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 (edited) On 3/7/2024 at 3:37 PM, The Aziz said: It takes PAM thrust limiter into account as well. Ok, I haven't noticed for the thrust limiter, that's good. On 3/7/2024 at 3:37 PM, The Aziz said: Once we're able to assign RCS to throttle, it should work, easy. Though you're beginning to cherrypick here, it's KSP, it cannot possibly predict every stupid design the players come up with, but it doesn't make it any less valid. Yes yes, these are the minor details that make the prediction (or the player, if you want to say) less accurate. My point is not to say the current tool is worse on these points, just that both KSP1 and KSP2 have inaccuracies. But you are right, I'm dirfting away from my main point, which is the suboptimal direction of thrust of the current tool. On 3/7/2024 at 3:37 PM, The Aziz said: There's a button to follow the maneuver marker. Don't just hit prograde because you'll end up nowhere during longer burns, as you're going on an ellipse, not straight line. Been to Moho lately? I have, and noticed a significant difference that makes the KSP1 "halfway to node at Pe" inferior by a long margin. Yes I'm aware there is a "maneuver direction" button, I've played KSP my fair share . However, I strongly disagree with you on this point. If the goal of your maneuver is to raise/lower an apsides (which is also the case for interplanetary departure and encounter), the optimal way is not to burn in the same direction. Apsides raising/lowering is all about gaining or losing orbital energy. The optimal way to do so is to burn prograde or retrograde. Every other direction is a loss of energy (except if you need to also do a plane change of course). If you want to perform an interplanetary departure with a very long burn, you should cut it in multiple burns at periapsis, but every burn should be prograde, never in a straight direction. I've been to Moho, and burnt retrograde at the encounter to circularize. I did that manually because I was incapable to plan a good circularization with the given tool. I must admit KSP1's tool was also no good in this situation. In both games, I only use the maneuver node to have an estimate of my burn duration. I'm not sure my point is clear enough, and I don't want to pollute more this post about UI design, so I will write a separate, more detailed post in a short time (https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/topic/224064-change-the-maneuver-tool-to-compute-the-predicted-path-in-the-moving-orbital-frame/) Edited March 11 by Darta01 Added link to my new post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowi_Sace Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 On 3/7/2024 at 9:29 AM, Darta01 said: That's just another reason why the current maneuver planner system is so bad. Why have a maneuver planner that does not let you plan maneuvers? In the Kerbolar system you can get away with a KSP1 style maneuver planner, but for those interstellar maneuvers you want one which also takes fuel weight loss and acceleration path into account 22 hours ago, Darta01 said: The ideal maneuver tool I would like is similar to the one present in the KSP1 mod Principia : you can switch between three calculation mods : Instant impulse. Similar to the vanilla maneuver calculation. Not realistic for long duration burns but good enough for planning trips. Inertially fixed. It computes a continuous burn with a fixed direction of thrust. Similar to the current KSP2 tool, useful for plane change maneuvers or changing the apsides direction. Not inertially fixed. The continuous burn is computed in the orbital frame along the predicted path. Useful for apsides rising/decreasing If only one solution should be kept, I'd rather have the instant impulse of KSP1 than the current KSP2 one, but I agree it is less than ideal. The KSP2 planner already is way more precise than from the start of EA. It will probably keep improving over time. They are working on more precision maneuver planner, but could take a while until we get it. I personally do not see the need for option one, I think that is more something modders can add to the game. The problem with option three is that vessel stay fixed/locked during time warp. This was a while in the bug report, but the DEV team said it takes a while until they fix it (complex issue). When this is fixed we may get option three after all. 20 hours ago, magnemoe said: I would say if your out of fuel just don't account for mass going down any more yes its incorrect but here its broken anyway. K2-D2 calculates correct burn time. Could be a fix for planning maneuver past your fuel limit. But I don’t know how easy it is to implement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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