Open Source Construction Techniques for Craft Aesthetics

[Captain Sierra]

Sadly it appears the prettyness & drag reduction that was the RAPIERspike is no longer functional in 1.0.5. We must find another way of making them not look like trash ....

[problemecium]

Dude, your signature still says you're leaving as of August o_O Anyway.
The RAPIERspike may be dead, but you can still do what Rune did here using a small nose cone, and presumably it still does a bit for drag:

 

Edited December 9, 2015 by parameciumkid
Blast this new editor! I type flawless BBCode and it screws it up trying to make it into HTML links >:[

[Captain Sierra]

35 minutes ago, parameciumkid said:

Dude, your signature still says you're leaving as of August

I'm here in body, not necessarily in spirit. Truth be told I poked on to see if the new forums were as garbage as the rumor mill had lead me to believe and I came back to something far more joyous: the return of Nertea and his free time. His mod suite is inarguably the only reason I'm still here and with it being worked on again, I come back for it and it alone. Perhaps some day soon I'll once again have faith in the devs. Perhaps 1.1 may do that, but until then I continue to play the game with no further expectations, simply making the best of what we have and giving up on concerning myself with what may be to come.

[Columbia]

On 12/9/2015, 10:43:48, Captain Sierra said:

I'm here in body, not necessarily in spirit. Truth be told I poked on to see if the new forums were as garbage as the rumor mill had lead me to believe and I came back to something far more joyous: the return of Nertea and his free time. His mod suite is inarguably the only reason I'm still here and with it being worked on again, I come back for it and it alone. Perhaps some day soon I'll once again have faith in the devs. Perhaps 1.1 may do that, but until then I continue to play the game with no further expectations, simply making the best of what we have and giving up on concerning myself with what may be to come.

I'm sorry to go off topic, but what did the devs do that made you mad?

[Majorjim!]

On Wed Dec 9 03:04:28, parameciumkid said:

Dude, your signature still says you're leaving as of August o_O Anyway.
The RAPIERspike may be dead, but you can still do what Rune did here using a small nose cone, and presumably it still does a bit for drag:

 

Yup that is one of the ways you can 'cheat' the 'realistic' new atmosphere...

[Speeding Mullet]

If you turn the LY05 landing gear upside down it makes for a very good way of rolling your payloads out of your cargo bay with no explosions.  Very useful for airdrops:

 

SM

[Mikki]

Today while breakfast i discovered that i can attach multiple fuellines to a small nose cone which can attach on every surface, without breaking a desired fuellogic! Since the lenght of fuellines is limited, this can be handy:


 

Edited December 12, 2015 by Mikki

[Rune]

On 9/12/2015 3:04:28, parameciumkid said:

Dude, your signature still says you're leaving as of August o_O Anyway.
The RAPIERspike may be dead, but you can still do what Rune did here using a small nose cone, and presumably it still does a bit for drag:

 

The most "cheaty" that you can go about it, AFAIK, is actually this:

No front intake at all, and a shock cone turned upside down on the rear node of the RAPIER. Then I felt a bit dirty and added two small circular intakes.

 

Rune. If you can cheat in a single player game, blablabla...

[Majorjim!]

Here's a quick tip for those not satisfied with anything but perfect part placement.

 You may from time to time find that the offset gizmos are not precise enough. Well I have discovered that if you click on the offset tool of your choice, hold the mouse button down and drag the mouse away still holding the button. The further you move the mouse away the more precise the offset gizmo movement becomes. You can place parts literally pixel perfect this way.

(Best used with the rotate tool)

MJ

Edited December 16, 2015 by Majorjim

[RixKillian]

On 12/16/2015 at 8:41 AM, Majorjim said:

Here's a quick tip for those not satisfied with anything but perfect part placement.

 You may from time to time find that the offset gizmos are not precise enough. Well I have discovered that if you click on the offset tool of your choice, hold the mouse button down and drag the mouse away still holding the button. The further you move the mouse away the more precise the offset gizmo movement becomes. You can place parts literally pixel perfect this way.

(Best used with the rotate tool)

MJ

You're a gentleman and a scholar, for sure!

Edited December 21, 2015 by RixKillian

[Majorjim!]

33 minutes ago, RixKillian said:

You're a gentleman and a scholar, for sure!

Cheers mate. I should have said, I think it only makes a difference with the rotate tool. Even so I have found this trick to be very useful indeed.

[Foxster]

Another little fuel line "feature" is this:

Say you want to run a fuel line between two places like this, but they are beyond the max length of a fuel line...

You can move one (or both) of the parts closer with the offset tool or initially place it closer like this, so that it is close enough to run a fuel line...

Then use the offset tool to put it where you really wanted it and the fuel line will stretch beyond it's normal limits...

Works with struts too...

[Mikki]

@Foxster

Well thats a nifty thing, good to know! Making some superextended struts/fuellines is real cool! Thanks for showing up!

[sgt_flyer]

hello  

i found a way to bypass the 'stowed' mechanic while using kickback SRB's, so i can create a good looking custom shape for SRB's for your shuttle / SLS replicas (and with a much more good looking diameter than the classic 1.25m or 2.5m diameters)

the overall 'shape' uses only adds 6 parts ! (the fuel tank adapter, the structural fuselage + nosecone, and the fairings. all 6 combined add 5 tons of dry mass)

 

basically, the trick is to have multiple fairings, so each one of them covers only partially the kickback's length (so none of them can trigger the 'occluded' state - in this case, the SRB can be activated without getting the 'stowed' message.)

it uses my open ended fairing technique, and the rotation + translation trick (but i reexplain them into the album).

here's the album detailing the construction technique :

 

here's the saved basic subassembly, if you just want the subassembly : (no additionnal SRB beyond the first one, no separatrons - you can customise that at will by adding additionnal kickbacks with nosecones and separatrons within the top nosecone and the bottom fuel tank adapter)

note, if you add additionnal kickbacks, remember you can tweak the new ones fuel quantity or thrust limiter, to have different burn timings between the SRB's (so it will create a thrust curve that can limit acceleration when the solid fuel is nearly depleted)

http://www./download/nmo69714snm7pv7/Custom+SRB.craft

Have fun

 

PS : i know those don't have parachutes i built a version with parachutes, but they needed to add a custom ejectable nosecone (using radiators to recreate the shape) in order to house the parachutes so they are not occluded by the fairings. besides, this booster doesn't like water (they can land on ground, but explode if trying to splash them down ^^)

Edited December 29, 2015 by sgt_flyer

[Majorjim!]

6 hours ago, sgt_flyer said:

SNIP

 

 

 

Hey man. Instead of just clicking 'like' *Clicks like button*  I took five minutes of tinkering to see if I could improve it. You can do this with only one faring. By placing an SRB and then a faring on top I can see that the faring can be pulled down much further negating the need for the other two fairings.

here is a pic of the rough test build showing how far down it can go and still allow it to fire:

 

All I did was place a probe core then a reaction wheel and then a downward facing SRB. you do not necisarrityly need those parts. All you really need is the SRB and the fairing. Maybe the core. I then pulled the faring down and attached at the bottom. I know how to leave it open but in this case there is no need. I then just added a nose and skirt. It launches fine. You can change the width of the SBR to anything you want. If you want it taller it only takes one more fairing at the top facing up.

So you only need two fairings per stack for no limit to the height. Also you don't need to know any tricks. It is so easy to make!

 

Edited December 29, 2015 by Majorjim

[sgt_flyer]

is it stable ?  as there's no direct connection between the top of the fairing and the SRB, don't you risk a wobble between the two ?  (unless you place struts between the two) - the early version in the WIP thread had no correct linkage at the top, and G forces could make the kickbacks wobble outside the fairing. 

 

[Majorjim!]

16 minutes ago, sgt_flyer said:

is it stable ?  as there's no direct connection between the top of the fairing and the SRB, don't you risk a wobble between the two ?  (unless you place struts between the two) - the early version in the WIP thread had no correct linkage at the top, and G forces could make the kickbacks wobble outside the fairing. 

 

No wobble or stability issues at all that I have seen yet, no struts and the SRB is attached to the fairing base then closed onto the SRB as seen in the pic. I will put together a dl in a sec.

Edited December 29, 2015 by Majorjim

[Bubbadevlin]

Hmm, that is a very cool solution to the "cannot activate while stowed" bug. That bug is so freaking annoying!!!

 

I actually had that bug really annoy me when building my Apollo rocket, too bad that type solution wouldn't do anything

 

Edited December 29, 2015 by Bubbadevlin

[sgt_flyer]

@Majorjim

tested out my booster with 1 from the top and 1 open ended one at the bottom (i then 'translated' a 1.25m nosecone from the fairing base to the top of the booster, before closing the fairing around the nosecone) works too , and shaved a bit of dry weight in the meantime

only downside, is the fairing's drag is still a bit weird (when reentering, they tend to go tail first in the airstream !

@Bubbadevlin

do you want me to take a look ? i've played around with those damn fairings a lot of times now, i manage to understand more or less at which point the 'stowed' mechanic activates. (i then generally put some custom bodywork made of wings or radiator panels at this point to allow the engines to still activate)

Edited December 29, 2015 by sgt_flyer

[Majorjim!]

Just now, sgt_flyer said:

@Majorjim

tested out my booster with 1 from the top and 1 open ended one at the bottom (i then 'translated' a 1.25m nosecone from the fairing base to the top of the booster, before closing the fairing around the nosecone) works too , and shaved a bit of dry weight in the meantime

only downside, is the fairing's drag is still a bit weird (when reentering, they tend to go tail first in the airstream !

@Bubbadevlin

do you want me to take a look ? i've played around with those damn fairings a lot of times now, i manage to understand more or less at which point the 'stowed' mechanic activates. (i then generally put some custom bodywork made of wings or radiator panels at this point to allow the engines to still activate)

Yup. My point was that it should only ever take a max of two fairings to make and you don't need to do any of the things you did to make yours. Also you massively underestimated the amount of SRB that can be covered. I think its better to have one down and one up and you never need to leave the fairing open at either end. And it only takes 4 parts for a cover a little taller than one SRB. Like I said above only one extra fairing to make any height you need. Anyone can make it.

 

Edited December 29, 2015 by Majorjim

[sgt_flyer]

10 minutes ago, Majorjim said:

Yup. My point was that it should only ever take two fairings to make and you don't need to do any of the things you did to make yours. Also you massively underestimated the amount of SRB that can be covered. I think its better to have one down and one up and you never need to leave the fairing open at either end. And it only takes 4 parts for a cover a little taller than one SRB. Like I said above only one extra SRB to make any height you need. Anyone can make it.

 

actually, i could need at least 1 open ended one when using the 1.25m to 2.5m fuel tank as a skirt, instead of the 3.75m adapter (with the fuel tank depending on the chosen diameter, you would have difficulties having a seamless 'body' coming up from the skirt (unless using 2 fairings :p) - as the fuel tank allows me to 'move' the SRB upwards - because it shifts the whole center of mass of the booster higher up  without increasing dry mass by having to put a fuel tank on top (and with Shuttle designs, COM position is important :p) - for the same booster height, it shifts the com upwards for around 1/5th of the height

Edited December 29, 2015 by sgt_flyer

[Majorjim!]

Just now, sgt_flyer said:

actually, i could need at least 1 open ended one when using the 1.25m to 2.5m fuel tank as a skirt, instead of the 3.75m adapter (with the fuel tank depending on the chosen diameter, you would have difficulties having a seamless 'body' coming up from the skirt (unless using 2 fairings :p)

I don't follow. Of course for different builds you need to change the design accordingly. That goes without saying. I think my point stands. You only ever need a max of two fairings to make this. The one facing up is under the one facing down so there is no issue with them being flush.

 It is maybe hard to follow by reading text. I will put together some examples and post them here later.

Also seeing as its a tutorial you should change the part that says you have to keep less than half the fairing covered. For clarity.

[Bubbadevlin]

Oh thanks, but i actually found a solution

I had open-ended fairings around my second and 3rd stage engines, where they were decoupled with the bottom stage. The problem was that even when the fairing was nowhere near the engines they still got the stowed bug, and I could not however activate the fairings, because it would just blow up the entire rocket.

I solved the problem with FLEAS! (first use of them). Basically they are my sepratrons, and when activated they overheat the fairing, making it explode when it is a safe distance away from the rocket. The fairing being exploded ends fixing the occlusion problem, and i can fire the second stage engines. It actually only takes a few seconds, so not much speed is lost 

Also i could do a radiator cover, but it would REALLY add to the part count. It is a 10m fairing, and the rocket already has over 1k parts

Edited December 29, 2015 by Bubbadevlin

[sgt_flyer]

@Majorjim here's my example regarding the COM shift

first example with the SRB fully downwards, with it's nozzle protruding (like your version)

 

same version, viewing the gap on top (as the booster's height would be dependent on the shuttle's ET, regardless of the kickback's height)

 

 

version, with the kickback shifted upwards, same height, with a clear COM shift (and it's only with 1 single SRB, imagine with several clipped kickbacks ;)), but in this case, i need an open ended fairing at the bottom, as the fairing extends past the SRB to connect seamlessly to the skirt. (and a more neutral COM position can also helpful when separatrons move that thing away from your booster ;))

 

granted, i could simply close the fairing around the skirt and it would leave an opening for the SRB, but in this case i would have no nozzle protruding underneath the booster

 

Edited December 29, 2015 by sgt_flyer

[Majorjim!]

Just now, sgt_flyer said:

@Majorjim here's my example regarding the COM shift

first example with the SRB fully downwards, with it's nozzle protruding (like your version)

 

same version, viewing the gap on top (as the booster's height would be dependent on the shuttle's ET, regardless of the kickback's height)

 

 

version, with the kickback shifted upwards, same height, with a clear COM shift (and it's only with 1 single SRB, imagine with several clipped kickbacks ;)), but in this case, i need an open ended fairing at the bottom, as the fairing extends past the SRB to connect seamlessly to the skirt. (and a more neutral COM position can also helpful when separatrons move that thing away from your booster ;))

 

granted, i could simply close the fairing around the skirt and it would leave an opening for the SRB, but in this case i would have no nozzle protruding underneath the booster

 

I don't see the issue here dude. Is it an aesthetic issue? As I understand that in order to have that bit poking out you need another fairing. What you have there is not what I made so wont behave as mine does, also why would the COM of the booster cause an issue?

If you give me an example of what you think you cannot do with just two and no open end. Other than the poking out bit. then I can see if I can do the same with this version.