"There is no science to be done in sandbox mode"

[Sean Mirrsen]

The science points can stay. However the custom funny experiment texts should remain locked to career mode.

I say this because a lot of people will stay in sandbox because career will not attract them in any way. If sandbox mode only gets the "generic" experiment result texts, the player may be persuaded to try the career mode for the various funny things said in experiment reports from different faraway bodies. Getting somewhere distant with a science ship will then become a reward for the player in more ways than just science points, whereas sandbox mode is just made for screwing around - it is its own reward.

[jcraft]

The science points can stay. However the custom funny experiment texts should remain locked to career mode.

I say this because a lot of people will stay in sandbox because career will not attract them in any way. If sandbox mode only gets the "generic" experiment result texts, the player may be persuaded to try the career mode for the various funny things said in experiment reports from different faraway bodies. Getting somewhere distant with a science ship will then become a reward for the player in more ways than just science points, whereas sandbox mode is just made for screwing around - it is its own reward.

Artificially locking player from content just because you want him to play other mode doesn't seems like a good idea. Besides - career mode will have much more to offer when it will be fully implemented - I highly doubt that things like flavour texts are going to be much of deciding factor which mode to play...

Edited October 13, 2013 by jcraft

[Superluminaut]

I agree, add the flavor to sandbox.

The science points can stay. However the custom funny experiment texts should remain locked to career mode.

I say this because a lot of people will stay in sandbox because career will not attract them in any way. If sandbox mode only gets the "generic" experiment result texts, the player may be persuaded to try the career mode for the various funny things said in experiment reports from different faraway bodies. Getting somewhere distant with a science ship will then become a reward for the player in more ways than just science points, whereas sandbox mode is just made for screwing around - it is its own reward.

But career mode is just a tutorial for new players. Why would you want to attract people to play a tutorial?

[magnemoe]

I disagree w the OP. Letting us do SCIENCE! in sandbox would let us scout out the tech tree unlocks cost and risk free.

A day after 0.22 is released the forum will be filled by tips, three days later you will have an dozen powergamer walk-trough for maxing out the tech tree fast.

Letting you do science in sandbox will on the other hand 1) let you test ships 2) add more challenges, how much science can you do during an grand tour.

How many science points do you get to take an atmospheric sample from below zero attitude at Jool and get it back to Kerbin.

How many do you get during and grand tour.

[jcraft]

<for some reason my post duplicated. For removal>

Edited October 13, 2013 by jcraft

[jcraft]

But career mode is just a tutorial for new players. Why would you want to attract people to play a tutorial?

Career mode is not a tutorial. Well, in 0.22 update state - yes, it is a kinda of tutorial, but in the final game it is suppose to be a more challenging and complex way to play the game and basically be THE GAME, where sandbox will be as always - place to freely screw around without any restrictions (besides technical ones of course).

Edited October 13, 2013 by jcraft

[PwnedDuck]

freely screw around without any restrictions .

When the thing we're freely screwing around with requires knowledge of concepts like delta v and phase angles I'd say that it qualifies us for some sort of reward besides satisfaction...

[Apophis775]

I disagree w the OP. Letting us do SCIENCE! in sandbox would let us scout out the tech tree unlocks cost and risk free.

I agree with this.

[pxi]

I'll be playing both modes. I'd enjoy being able to do science in sandbox. Even though the science points would be useless from a gameplay point-of-view, they would give me another point of reference for what I had accomplished, other than flags and (debris of failed) landers.

[AlamoVampire]

I think we SHOULD BE ABLE to do Science in SB mode. Why you ask? I ask: WHY NOT? I am not saying we should get points for it or be able to unlock the tree, but, we should be able to DO the science if for only Role Playing sake. Seeing the message: there is no science to be done in Sand Box Mode, kinda bothered me in Scott Manley's video released a few hours ago where he was talkin with Harvester. If you are going to have a mode where we can build what ever we want with nearly 0 restrictions, but, then say we cannot do science, is kinda a slap in our faces.

[Brotoro]

AlamoVampire is correct.

[AlamoVampire]

I have been thinking on this a little more, and something else to say came to mind:

why not keep us bolted down to Kerbin in Sand Box mode or limit us to stock only or any other limitations? because if your gonna limit one facet, you may as well remove all others. Give us our science in SB mode please

[SkyRender]

I'd also vote for allowing the science system to still work in sandbox. Having the R&D building not do anything in sandbox mode makes plenty of sense, though. Let the sandbox players hoard that precious science like a trophy!

[regex]

I agree with the original post. Just let science points accumulate as normal in sandbox mode. It's kind of like a high score.

Except in sandbox you can build a 3000 part nuclear-power monstrosity with mechjeb and get to eeloo with your eyes closed, while once cash is implemented in addition to science, getting there in campaign mode will feel like quite an accomplishment.

It's always funny to see comments like this; as if somehow SQUAD is going to lock down career mode from mods and OP parts despite all the information to the contrary. It's like people are completely oblivious to the fact that KSP keeps its parts data in easily editable text files.

[paleorob]

I like the idea of there being some unique reward to playing Career mode (which everyone has been clamoring for ages to have). Why not bring the science materials along to see if you can get there but do the science itself in Career mode. People have talked about having saves that are like simulators. Well, now we have a mode that is a simulator. We here on Earth simulated every aspect of the Curiosity rover's mission that we could in real-world and virtual aspects...but we still didn't know the actual results of the science experiments until it was down on Mars. I view Career vs. Sandbox to be the same dichotomy. Someone said, "Why not try and see how many science points you can get for a - altitude Jool sample?" I agree - why not try in career mode? Another person suggested that science points should function like a high score - once you've unlocked the full tree that is what happens in Career mode.

In fact the only thing that will differentiate between a fully unlocked Career game and a Sandbox game will be the science points. Are those of you who want science points in Sandbox really saying you want to have no fundamental differences between Sandbox and end-state Career?

[Specialist290]

Really, I couldn't care less about the "science points" aspect of it. I'm not in this game for any sort of "high score," explicit or otherwise. I just want to still see the flavor texts for running experiments regardless of whether I'm playing Sandbox or Career Mode, even if running those experiments has no actual effect from a gameplay perspective.

[Clouds]

It...what?

What kind of "sandbox mode" doesn't let you do everything?

But career mode is just a tutorial for new players.

Ouch.

Try to explain what you'd be scouting and why it would have any effect on what experiment you do and I'll try to correct where you're misunderstanding.

As devil's advocate:

"I can only afford to send up one rocket to Minmus and return, or two into orbit. Which landing sites, and which set of experiment parts, get me the most Science in return?"

...not that I think doing that is a bad thing that needs to be prevented, as WafflesToo seems to think.

Career mode is .... THE GAME, where sandbox will be as always - place to freely screw around without any restrictions

Bear in mind that because KSP has been available for so long with only a sandbox mode, there will be a heavy bias among current forum posters to be players who like a sandbox game...like me.

In fact the only thing that will differentiate between a fully unlocked Career game and a Sandbox game will be the science points.

Is that true? Admittedly, I haven't been following Career Mode news much at all (since I don't personally care much except for sandbox), but I was under the impression that there would also be money or materials, with Science only for unlocks, and some other metric for the specific amounts of parts you can actually deploy. If I'm right, a fully-researched Career game would not be like Sandbox at all, with no liberty to build the rocket of your dreams unless you're rolling in dough.

[ddavis425]

If you want science in sandbox mode just finish the career mode tech tree. Squad made it stupidly easy to unlock everything so it shouldn't take more than a few missions. After the tech tree is finished you'll be back in sandbox mode (and if you play with mods just assign them to a node).

[AmpsterMan]

I want the flavor text in Sandbox mode. Don't really see convincing reasons for it not to be there.

[regex]

If you want science in sandbox mode just finish the career mode tech tree. Squad made it stupidly easy to unlock everything so it shouldn't take more than a few missions.

If it's that easy to unlock the entire tree then what is the point of career mode? "Here's a little progression to make you feel better about playing sandbox mode."

I hope they add a difficulty setting of some sort...

[paleorob]

Is that true? Admittedly, I haven't been following Career Mode news much at all (since I don't personally care much except for sandbox), but I was under the impression that there would also be money or materials, with Science only for unlocks, and some other metric for the specific amounts of parts you can actually deploy. If I'm right, a fully-researched Career game would not be like Sandbox at all, with no liberty to build the rocket of your dreams unless you're rolling in dough.

I'm sure in the future there will be differences but I was speaking specifically to .22. I should have specified.

[sickboy]

If it's that easy to unlock the entire tree then what is the point of career mode? "Here's a little progression to make you feel better about playing sandbox mode."

I hope they add a difficulty setting of some sort...

once money comes around it won't be as easy to build a giant rocket of doom with the early parts.

[AlamoVampire]

to limit even one aspect of a free for all mode like sandbox is curiously odd. the whole point of sandbox mode is to be free from constraints and NOT have them added in. the constraints is what makes campaign mode or career mode in this case worth while. you gotta earn that stuff in career, but in SB? nope. give us the ability to do the science in SB mode, even if it has no point values for DOING it, let us DO it! it would give us the ability to test theories for Career mode, kinda like what NASA, ESA and the other space agencies do in computers before committing tens of millions or BILLIONS of dollars to something. just saying.

[regex]

once money comes around it won't be as easy to build a giant rocket of doom with the early parts.

Money doesn't address the relative ease of unlocking the tech tree. If I can unlock the entire tree "in a few missions" then I certainly don't need a giant rocket of doom.

[paleorob]

kinda like what NASA, ESA and the other space agencies do in computers before committing tens of millions or BILLIONS of dollars to something. just saying.

Not sure if you saw my point but this is not 100% accurate. Sandbox is like the testing that the space agencies do, true, but we don't actually know the results of those experiments for sure until we actually do the mission IRL (Career Mode). Keeping science out of Sandbox is exactly analogous to what you have stated.