How will .22 Effect Mods?

[Apophis775]

Specifically, I was wondering how it would effect Kerbal Engineer Redux...

Will it still be functional, or will I need to remove it to use KSP until Redux has a .22 update?

I've only been playing KSP since .21, so this is my first time going to a new version with a mod...

[ultrasquid]

My understanding is that in Sandbox mode there should be no substantive change, but there may be compatibility glitches as there can be between them any other release.

In order for mod parts to work in the new Career mode, they'll have to be rewritten to connect to the tech tree node structure. There are a few nodes left unused by the stock game that are reserved for mods that don't fit neatly into existing nodes.

[thunderstar]

i think .22 will not break saves so you will be able to continue your present save,

[TaranisElsu]

In order for mod parts to work in the new Career mode, they'll have to be rewritten to connect to the tech tree node structure.

Actually, they will need a one line addition to the part's cfg file telling the game which node to associate it with. So if there aren't any other compatibility problems, then you can easily add the one line yourself and use it until the author updates it.

[NathanKell]

About what I figured. Question is whether there's a publicly accessible TechNodeAvailable(node) function, or the like.

[regex]

Everyone will probably have to recompile their stuff as well, plus the noted changes for parts mods.

Edited October 15, 2013 by regex

[KhaosCorp]

About what I figured. Question is whether there's a publicly accessible TechNodeAvailable(node) function, or the like.

According to the Squad 0.22 teaser vid the tech grid will have either open nodes or creatable nodes for mod devs and the like. I was honestly only 1/2 paying attention to the vid, so may be worth a peep to confirm.

[NathanKell]

Oh, dang. And I _so_ studiously avoid internet video.

(<oldgrouch> why can't people just write anymore </oldgrouch>)

[DerekL1963]

Oh, dang. And I _so_ studiously avoid internet video.

(<oldgrouch> why can't people just write anymore </oldgrouch>)

I'm with you... the s/n ratio in videos is pretty horrid. An hour long video often contains as much actual information as will fit into a paragraph or maybe two.

[KerbMav]

I was hoping for a default setting used by the game for parts without a tech tree line in the config ...

Could something like the module manager be used here?

[KhaosCorp]

I was hoping for a default setting used by the game for parts without a tech tree line in the config ...

Could something like the module manager be used here?

I would assume so. Seems like the best way to assign part to a tech node would be via a config line. If that is in fact the case then ModuleManager could be used on mod pack that the author is not gonna split into technodes.

Really hope its not much of an issue though...would be nice to see most mod makers do tech-tree updates.

[Apophis775]

So... Do we think this update will affect mods?

Specifically, I'm worried about MechJeb (a recent addition) and Engineer Redux.

Mainly, because I was partly drunk when I installed Mechjeb, and I have NO idea what files were in there before I just sort of "tossed" everything in there together...

[shadowsutekh]

Mods will work like they have always done in KSP sandbox. However mods will need an update to be compatible with .22's career mode through updates of the config files in order to place them in the nodes.

[Nachtwind]

Basically you only have to update the part.cfg files for parts. Look at squads original parts (i am not on a ksp-running comp, else i would look it up). There are two lines that are defining how much Sci a part costs and which node it belongs to (i think). Just add the lines to, for example MJ, and youre fine. Works then flawlessly.

[Simplicity]

Basically you only have to update the part.cfg files for parts. Look at squads original parts (i am not on a ksp-running comp, else i would look it up). There are two lines that are defining how much Sci a part costs and which node it belongs to (i think). Just add the lines to, for example MJ, and youre fine. Works then flawlessly.

Thanks for that, have added the lines to Mechjeb, and it works perfectly

I will go back in and maybe put it further down the tech tree later once I figure out how things actually work, but the pic shows it is there (along with NP parts which have been updated now)

[HoneyFox]

Im just wondering ... why don't the KSP devs set the default values of the TechRequired to "basic"...

i need to check whether module manager can judge if a parameter is absent in a part config.

EDIT: Checked both Module Manager and Module Manager Extensions plugins, no they don't seem to support adding a parameter when it doesn't exists...

And it may be easy to add that to MME's code base.

Edited October 18, 2013 by HoneyFox

[NathanKell]

Wait, it doesn't? I had the same idea but hadn't sat down to try it yet; I thought sarbian's had support for not(has(key(keyname))) like stuff, in the same way as not(has(module(modulename)))

[NathanKell]

Hey wait. Is GetValue() defined when there's more than one key/value in a node? If it's defined to be the first, you could write a wildcard MM script that adds those values to EVERY part (should add to end of node), and GetValue would get the original one if it existed.

[AlamoVampire]

Okay, so, all mods function like .21 in SANDBOX and need a line of code added to the .cfg for career mode? okay... thats fine for those who can code but what about those of us, like say me, who cannot code and cannot modify a cfg file, or rather would like to not risk screwing something up?

[Simplicity]

Okay, so, all mods function like .21 in SANDBOX and need a line of code added to the .cfg for career mode? okay... thats fine for those who can code but what about those of us, like say me, who cannot code and cannot modify a cfg file, or rather would like to not risk screwing something up?

Actually it is a lot easier than you think to do it

First download notepad++ or totaledit (which are both free editors) (just do a google for them)

open the part.cfg of the mod you with to add to career mode in notepad++ or totaledit.

then do the following:

1) find the line which says: // --- editor parameters ---

2) hit your "enter" key at the end of it which should put your cursor on a new line

3) type: TechRequired = start (and hit "enter" key)

4) type: entryCost = 0 (and hit "enter" key)

You should end up with something like this:

// --- editor parameters ---

TechRequired = start

entryCost = 0

5) Save the file and you are done.

in the above example the mod you edit will appear at the start of the tech tree, however you can put the mod further down the tree by changing the TechRequired = line to another value (which are listed HERE (just scroll down to the post by UbioZur )

Anyway, if you still don't want to try it yourself, hang in there as mod authors are starting to alter their mods now for career mode (I know that Mechjeb and NP have already been done, and others are working on theirs)

[Xentoe]

A big Problem the new System generates is:

That it makes the "independend" mod work nearly impossible as far I see.

As far I heared is there only a limited ammount of Tech Tree Nodes.

for new additons.

And every Modder, does make own stuff and (some) needs more technods than the standfart tree has. What means (without option to avoidness) mod conflicts.

One modder names Addition Tec Node super TEc

The next names it Cold fusion Tec

the Next names it Sandwitch Tec....

But all use the same Tecnode -> Result: Name incobaility (several different named thingis try to use the same filelocation).

So what means:

The new R&D Sysme is nic,e but makes the making and (fpr us user) using mods mutch more complicate,d or let`s better said imited, than the 4 gb Memorylimit did yet.

So far I understand the actual talks in the modrelease forum.

[KhaosCorp]

The current tech tree is rather expansive...esp for just being implemented.

I use alot of mods, constantly pushing the 3.5gb memory limit....and I have yet to find a single part that didnt fit well into an existing technode.

There is a real negative aspect to user/mod created TechNodes that NOONE seems to see.... Whats gonna happen when mod makes make new nodes or trees? Its gonna become a nightmare of config edits every single update..not only KSP update but every mod update as well...

The reason why droping mods into the TechTree works right now is because EVERYONE HAS THE SAME TREE. If people start making new ones, or renaming the current ones then that is no longer true, and it open the door to a world of compatability issues.

Honestly...I dont see why everyone is so up in arms about the tech tree...its rather well done imo, and PLENTY of room for mod parts...

not to mention 0.22 was JUST released...give em a bit of time to see how we react and adjust accordingly......

[Xentoe]

Sooo and like said:

There is yet the mess.

Kethane, has a own mTech Tree

Novapunch seems to have a own Tech Tree

And KSP Interstellar has too a own Tech Tree.

Result:

At start you must chose one of these tech trees.

With the result only one of three mods (only 3 installed) works.

You see the parts of the othe rmods, but they are not available (natural) because their Tec Tree is not loaded.

And these are only 3 quiet populary Mods....

I think nearly every a bit more complex Mod will cause this problem.

[Tiberion]

No, you don't understand how the nodes work.

Novapunch only uses the stock nodes that the stock parts use. Most mods will do this as well.

Some mods might use TreeEdit and TreeLoader to add or re-arrange nods for their own mod, but as long as they don't DELETE nodes then other mods that use the stock mods will work in that new tree too.

The only conflict will be if two mods create two different TreeEdit custom trees - then they won't be compatible. I expect most of them will release a standard "stock" technode config and then have the optional TreeEdit tech tree as well

The ideal solution would be for someone to create a generic, expansive tech tree with TreeEdit that all of the major mods can use to create a "community" tech tree.

We'll see how it works out. Its all temporary since the system will evolve soon enough anyway.

[Xentoe]

And why do I have now with Kethane, Novapunch and KSP I 3 different Tech Trees to chose off?

And Why does the Novepunch parts are greyed out in the KSP I Tech Tree?

If what you said is correct, I should only have 1 Techtree to chose (KSPI) and the Novapunch parts should work (and not say: YOu must add R&D Recouseinformation (In the part description))