Space Stations not worth anything in .22

[Lohan2008]

I hope Squad will continue to make (some) fixes to Career mode 2.2.

At the moment it is not worth any science points to keep Kerbals in LKO, after 4 transmissions.

Ksp'ers feedback ?

[Mitchz95]

I agree, bases and space stations need some purpose for scientific gain. Maybe some science parts that work passively and gain science points the whole time they're in orbit.

[Apophis775]

Or maybe the experiments taking more time than "instant"? Like, monitor the Goo for 24 hours?

[jwenting]

there was no purpose at all to sandbox mode except what you made of it. Same with career mode, what's your purpose researching new tech? Set yourself goals.

[DangerDave]

Or maybe the experiments taking more time than "instant"? Like, monitor the Goo for 24 hours?

That seems like a really good idea.

[OrbitusII]

*0.22

They might not be good for much science at the moment, but they can still be used to stage other missions. It's all up to you.

[Lheim]

Made a suggestion earlier about making a big heavy power-consuming science bay that could be used to recover data as efficiently as on Kerbin's surface. You wouldn't want to bring it along on any far travelling ship, but as a place to rendezvous and transfer results from your permanent fleet..

[Joel Dryden]

I agree, bases and space stations need some purpose for scientific gain. Maybe some science parts that work passively and gain science points the whole time they're in orbit.

Something or anything like this, maybe for every couple hours you get a Science point, going up to 1000Units that can't be sent and must be picked up by a Kerbal (50 or something at a time) and then returned to have any value.

[Apophis775]

That's not a bad idea. Maybe use it as a "Science Lab" on your Mothership when you launch probes out.

[JonoRig]

I like the idea of maybe a part that does constant "trickle" science, you get very small science but over a long period of time, and rather then just one science report. Each time it updates it gives I a new silly paragraph to the report. This system would have an exponential growth on both time and science gained to simulate the idea of doing research on an area while on your station or base, but when u transmit said data, or stick it in a storage probe that you decouple and deorbit, you essentially start a new project, and all your exponentials are reset... Obviously this can be abused, but I saw streetlamp pro fly to Duna on start parts, and Scott Manley landed on minmus and then passed the mun, so like the tech tree it would need the money system to balance it.

So before that paragraph gets any dumber, Ill just say that as your potential science gains increase, it costs more to keep it running (maybe kerbonaut wages/risk pay and supplies simulated) it. And maybe later stages of an experiment needs more kerbals on board. Or something... Just an idea that came off the top of my head

[Moach]

keep in mind, this is only the humble beginnings of the very first "gameplay" elements of KSP... more likely than not, sandbox mode has no science-making features simply because that didn't make the cut for this release - same goes for pretty much everything else one might suspect is "missing"

remember that on the very first versions. KSP was a 2.5D experience (you could only launch east/west) - 3d came after another update, then came everything else.

this is called "iterative design" and is a very clever way of working through such complex things in a way that makes sense...

Space Stations might have been made somewhat pointless now... but then again - there was no way to tell before ppl got to play and see what gives... this is where feedback becomes important, as long as those suggestions are kept in a civil tone and those proposing them understand the real meaning of the term "work in progress" -- this is where and when opinion counts.

As far as I can tell, there seems to be a lot of grey areas about what would be the next steps in building this whole new side of the game... mind then that this is to career mode as the addition of the Mün was to sandbox -- there's more than a couple of tough-answered questions that come with treading such new territory

[Ringkeeper]

well, what was the point of Space Stations before 0.22 ? They also didnt had any purpose, yet people build huge stations. I see the new career mode as a improved sandbox. I put all the mods i use in the techtree at places, where it makes sence. So after i researched everything, i have the same as sandbox^^

[Mitchz95]

Made a suggestion earlier about making a big heavy power-consuming science bay that could be used to recover data as efficiently as on Kerbin's surface. You wouldn't want to bring it along on any far travelling ship, but as a place to rendezvous and transfer results from your permanent fleet..

That's a great idea! Especially for ships that aren't design for returning to Kerbin.

[Wayfare]

Also keep in mind that any unlimited science-over-time solution turns into an instant exploit due to time warp

The "science tank" idea which fills up with "science" that you need to offload and return to Kerbin is neat and takes care of that problem quite elegantly.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Wayfare

[Apophis775]

I really don't see a reason for science in Sandbox, can someone please explain why they think it would be beneficial?

I mean, it seems like the equivalent of collecting research points when you start a game at the max tech level. Irrelevent.

Also keep in mind that any unlimited science-over-time solution turns into an instant exploit due to time warp

The "science tank" idea which fills up with "science" that you need to offload and return to Kerbin is neat and takes care of that problem quite elegantly.

Maybe not have the science over time limited, or maybe have it so that you have to "assign" a kerbol to a specific project for it to work? I mean, I'd like to see more stats on Kerbols one day, like (Energy, Food, Drink, O2). Then, you might be getting unlimited science, but your paying for a Kerbol to pretty much live on your station forever by carting up O2 and supplies. Or maybe even a "universal science resource" that powers the experiments and needs to be replenished. I mean, we send modules up to the space station with food, water, and sciencey supplies and they transmit data back.

I'd like to eventually see more "resources" necessary to sustain kerbols in space for longer periods of time, but at the same time, I don't want the game to end up becoming a glorified taxi simulator, much like our space shuttles became a glorified taxi service.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Apophis775

[dlrk]

I agree space stations need to be given a purpose, and I like the 'science tank' concept.

[csanders]

Yeah, I was a little disappointed that there wasn't extra science points after docking and doing a crew "action report."

But I just got back from Duna, and finally earned my Nukes, Mainsails and orange tank. 1 science point left over. Whoo!

[regex]

Space stations in career mode are worth exactly what they are worth in sandbox mode. They are what you make them: orbital hotel, refueling point, scenic backdrop, etc... Considering how little impact science has on career mode what exactly were you expecting? If you can potentially max the tech tree in a few launches why would you need additional science?

[togfox]

Space stations do have a point - the same point they had in 0.21: to get you to eeloo and Laythe and other awesome outer planets.

[Whackjob]

Here's an idea. Rather than some simple science-over-time bit, why not have a microgravity laboratory? Put the lab module on a space station, and it doesn't work unless it's in 0G. Then, you have to fly up samples from KSP, dock, run the tests in the lab, then return them. And why not add the capability to have different modules to bolt on to the microgravity lab? Bio lab, polymer lab, et cetera.

This would also give people a reason to learn docking in a hurry.

[Commander Zoom]

I really don't see a reason for science in Sandbox, can someone please explain why they think it would be beneficial?

Many people are already playing in Sandbox mode and don't necessarily want to start over just yet (and give up all their mods, etc), especially when it's for such a limited and incomplete version of Career mode. But they'd still like the experience of doing science - for some, that's reading the flavor text when you go somewhere and do an experiment, for some it's racking up a "high score", and for some it's both.

Me, I don't care about the points, but I'd really like - when I finally do get to Duna, after months of planning - to push the button on my lander's science bay and get something other than "LOL NO SCIENCE FOR U".

And for what it's worth, I had a "science module" on my station for weeks now, that was nothing more than a Hitchhiker, some adapters and other greeblies stuck on to look kind of scientific. Even if it does get me nothing, I'm going to be replacing that with a real science module tomorrow or over the weekend. Because science.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Commander Zoom

[Bandock]

Want to give space stations more worth? Try something like the "Project: Space Station" approach involving the need to deliver equipment for research (which usually had a tendency to break or wear out).

Which reminds me, who here has played that game? (It was released for the Commodore 64, DOS, and Apple-II I think for the latter of the two)

[Magma]

stations pointless? preposterous!

fuel is an invaluable resource and keeping spare fuel around is always a good idea.

put antennas on it and you just made your station future proof when antennas get a limited range.

[boolybooly]

Currently the location the materials bay and the goo chamber are overflying make no difference. Maybe there needs to be a radar or laser gravitometer which continually gathers map data as it flies and can be downloaded periodically or recovered and after completing the map the science is done for that particular planet or moon with that component.

Maybe it also needs a sky lab module which can run new experiments continually, consuming fuel and supplies and weighs 5t and can earn money. Maybe you have to deliver the experiment apparatus but dont have to deliver a new station every time.

We would need supplies and economy implemented first though. Early days

[AlamoVampire]

ive managed to suck most of the data out of LKO already with out a station lol, but, a station has more than scientific value. as someone said on page 1, you can use them to stage missions beyond Kerbin, Mun and Minmus