[1.1.3] AntennaRange 1.11.4 - Enforce and Encourage Antenna Diversity

[Festivejelly]

I'm not sure if i'm barking up the wrong tree here but I have a craft thats way out of range of the antenna but I can still control it. I cant see the option to restrict control of it.

[rasta013]

11 hours ago, Festivejelly said:

I'm not sure if i'm barking up the wrong tree here but I have a craft thats way out of range of the antenna but I can still control it. I cant see the option to restrict control of it.

Double check your AR settings while at the KSC and look for the check mark in the box labelled Connection Required For Probe Control.  Besides that one, there's also the Require Line of Sight box which will allow you to be blocked via solar system bodies but have the ability to set a margin of error if so desired.  I know both of these settings are working just fine because I run with them all the time and just lost a probe on a Sarnus shot tonight due to inconvenient timing on my relay and the probe's O.D.A.M! (Orbital Deceleration (please don't explode) Airbraking Maneuver...  )

[toadicus]

AntennaRange has been updated to version 1.11.3!  This version fixes the issue brought by @Z-Key Aerospace about EVA kerbals, and #5 on github about ships leaving physics range.

CHANGELOG:

v.1.11.3 [2016-05-32]
	* Fixed an issue that caused EVA Kerbals to miss the definition of packet sizes and costs.
	* Fixed an issue that prevented vessels having recently left physics range from being working relays.
	* Fixed an issue that allowed Exceptional behaviour when other mods have gone very wrong.

[The Optimist]

The icon is red, but I can still move my unmanned probe core

[DStaal]

5 minutes ago, The Optimist said:

The icon is red, but I can still move my unmanned probe core

Yep.  By default losing communication doesn't mean losing control.  There's a setting if you want to change that.

[jwenting]

2 hours ago, The Optimist said:

The icon is red, but I can still move my unmanned probe core

Worse, it never is green despite meeting all the requirements (correct antenna, tracking station fully upgraded) even when sitting on the pad...

[toadicus]

@Festivejelly @The Optimist, the responses that you need to turn on the option to require connections for probe control are correct.  AntennaRange options are only available at the Space Center screen.

@jwenting, I can't duplicate that problem, so I need more information you want my help.   Logs are good, reproduction steps (including the smallest set of other mods required) are better.

[faraon]

I've had a the same problem as @jwenting after 2 days of installing and testing mods it seems I've found the culprit. In the ORIGAMI antenna pack there is an old compatibility patch for RemoteTech(tested with just AR installed). It's existence is what breaks AntennaRange. Removing it or using the version of the antenna pack posted in the forum by rasta013 (with patches for AntennaRange and RemoteTech using :NEEDS instead of :FOR like the older patches did) works for me.

Edited May 23, 2016 by faraon
wrong name

[rasta013]

3 hours ago, faraon said:

I've had a the same problem as @jwenting after 2 days of installing and testing mods it seems I've found the culprit. In the ORIGAMI antenna pack there is an old compatibility patch for RemoteTech(tested with just AR installed). It's existence is what breaks AntennaRange. Removing it or using the version of the antenna pack posted in the forum by rasta013 (with patches for AntennaRange and RemoteTech using :NEEDS instead of :FOR like the older patches did) works for me.

You can also find that patch on the AR wiki compatibility patches page.  Much easier to find there than hunting it down in the thread...  

While you may not be running the ORIGAMI antennas it could be a different patch that is doing the same thing so make sure to look around for RT patches with :FOR statements if necessary

Edited May 23, 2016 by rasta013
Just woke up...

[DStaal]

BTW: Could we get a link to the wiki in the OP?  I think one reason people don't use it much is that it's hard to find out about and to find.

[faraon]

https://github.com/toadicus/AntennaRange/wiki/Compatibility-Patches

 

if You forget later It's easy to find just go to github (through the source link on space dock or CKAN) and click wiki

[DStaal]

7 minutes ago, faraon said:

https://github.com/toadicus/AntennaRange/wiki/Compatibility-Patches

 

if You forget later It's easy to find just go to github (through the source link on space dock or CKAN) and click wiki

It's not that I couldn't find it - I know it exists and knew where to look - but that I think having it in the first post would be useful.  It's generally the first thing new or potential users of a mod will look at, and normally a good resource on 'how to use this mod'.  Many people likely will never read the rest of the thread, they'll just decide to use it or not based on the first post.  So it'd be good to have this info there, where it will do the most good.

[toadicus]

Links added, @DStaal, thanks for poking me.  I'd forgotten I hadn't added those already!

[jwenting]

ok, seems AntennaRange conflicts with some of Roverdude's stuff.

Quote

[LOG 21:12:28.822] [ARConfiguration] Found prefab IAntennaRelay MK-V Comm-Lab

 

[LOG 21:12:28.822] [ARConfiguration] Recompiling part and module info for MKV.CommPak

 

[EXC 21:12:28.823] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object

 

 KSPUtil.PrintModuleName (System.String moduleName)

 

 PartLoader.CompilePartInfo (.AvailablePart newPartInfo, .Part part)

 

 System.Reflection.MonoMethod.Invoke (System.Object obj, BindingFlags invokeAttr, System.Reflection.Binder binder, System.Object[] parameters, System.Globalization.CultureInfo culture)

 

 Rethrow as TargetInvocationException: Exception has been thrown by the target of an invocation.

 

 System.Reflection.MonoMethod.Invoke (System.Object obj, BindingFlags invokeAttr, System.Reflection.Binder binder, System.Object[] parameters, System.Globalization.CultureInfo culture)

 

 System.Reflection.MethodBase.Invoke (System.Object obj, System.Object[] parameters)

 

 AntennaRange.ARConfiguration.updateModuleInfos (System.Collections.Generic.List`1 partsList)

 

 AntennaRange.ARConfiguration.updateModuleInfos ()

 

 AntennaRange.ARConfiguration.Update ()

 

 

 

 

[rasta013]

50 minutes ago, jwenting said:

ok, seems AntennaRange conflicts with some of Roverdude's stuff.

 

 

This is a known issue with a single part.  The MK-V Comm-Pak has real issues with a number of different mods for some reason.  To my knowledge that's the only part that doesn't cooperate.  I've got AR working for any number of other USI parts without any issues at all.  This is also not fatal, only that particular part will not conform to AR.

[toadicus]

I'll look at that part specifically this week and see if I can find a way to protect against whatever shenanigans it's perpetrating.

[jwenting]

reinstalled everything from scratch, leaving out any and all USI stuff for now, and AR is working. Don't know what was going on, but the more mods I removed from the install, the more unstable the installation became...

[tomato3017]

Shouldn't the my probe in red be relaying? I am using Sigma Dimensions to increase the solar system 4x but everything else seems to be working except relaying.

 

Both have the basic antenna and im trying to use my surveyor thats in the pic.(I have probe control needs LOS enabled)

 

[tomato3017]

14 minutes ago, tomato3017 said:

Shouldn't the my probe in red be relaying? I am using Sigma Dimensions to increase the solar system 4x but everything else seems to be working except relaying.

 

Both have the basic antenna and im trying to use my surveyor thats in the pic.(I have probe control needs LOS enabled)

img Snip

Ok so when I turn off Additive ranges it works. Is there something im not calculating that I need to take into consideration?

[toadicus]

@tomato3017, does your 4x mod include a patch or anything to increase the range of the AR antennas?  Seems to me like you're probably just out of range.

[Uzric]

 The mod doesn't work for me (icon is red always, like what happens to jwenting) when I enable "Use Additive Ranges".

 Interesting things on my save:
Part mods: BDArmory, KAX, KIS, and KAS. I don't expect any of these to interfere with AR.
Non-part mods that may, somehow, interfere: StockBugFixes, ContractConfigurator.
In the save I had no extra relays (maybe "use additive ranges" is ignoring Kerbin itself and looking on the list of relays? And it happens that I have zero flights, i.e. list of relays is zero, so it goes krakens?).
Another important thing to note when it doesn't work is, nominal range of antennae is 0.0km when right clicking on them while in flight.

 

[rkman]

Relay goes the long way around.

My unmanned Mun lander can see two comsats in Mun orbit which in turn can see Kerbin. But the relay path from the Mun lander goes via a lander on Minmus. Even the Mun comsats and a comsat in Kerbin orbit prefer relay via Minmus instead of direct to Kerbin. All the vessel have proper antennas and electricity.

[rasta013]

11 hours ago, Uzric said:

 The mod doesn't work for me (icon is red always, like what happens to jwenting) when I enable "Use Additive Ranges".

 Interesting things on my save:
Part mods: BDArmory, KAX, KIS, and KAS. I don't expect any of these to interfere with AR.
Non-part mods that may, somehow, interfere: StockBugFixes, ContractConfigurator.
In the save I had no extra relays (maybe "use additive ranges" is ignoring Kerbin itself and looking on the list of relays? And it happens that I have zero flights, i.e. list of relays is zero, so it goes krakens?).
Another important thing to note when it doesn't work is, nominal range of antennae is 0.0km when right clicking on them while in flight.

 

If you can post a log file that might give a direction to look into.  

3 hours ago, rkman said:

Relay goes the long way around.

My unmanned Mun lander can see two comsats in Mun orbit which in turn can see Kerbin. But the relay path from the Mun lander goes via a lander on Minmus. Even the Mun comsats and a comsat in Kerbin orbit prefer relay via Minmus instead of direct to Kerbin. All the vessel have proper antennas and electricity.

I've seen this happen to me many times because I have so many antennas configured for use with AR.  Occasionally, if an antenna pair results in a better connection to Kerbin it will make that link regardless of there being closer relay links.  If I understand correctly from the numbers, it has to do with the speed and costs of transmitting using a pair of relays.  Should the longer relay result in better numbers it will use it instead of the closer links.

[rkman]

1 hour ago, rasta013 said:

I've seen this happen to me many times because I have so many antennas configured for use with AR.  Occasionally, if an antenna pair results in a better connection to Kerbin it will make that link regardless of there being closer relay links.  If I understand correctly from the numbers, it has to do with the speed and costs of transmitting using a pair of relays.  Should the longer relay result in better numbers it will use it instead of the closer links.

In this case all vessels have the same antenna (the stock 'flat dish'), except one in low Kerbin orbit which has a large hinged disc. Presumably Kerbin itself has a better antenna and should be preferred over that Kerbin sat.  
The long-way-around paths are at least the same number of hops as the shorter paths - all have the same antennas except for the last hop via the Kerbin sat (instead of to Kerbin directly) for vessels that have los to it. Setting packet throttle on unwanted relays to its lowest value makes no difference.

I noticed the paths depend on which vessel is selected.  

- With focus on the sat in Kerbin orbit everything that can see it relays via that sat.  
- Switching to one of the Mun sats there is only a line between the Mun sat and Kerbin and a line between it and the Kerbin sat. Seems to indicate the Kerbin sat relays via the Mun sat, in fact everything that has los relays via that Mun sat (if it has focus).
- Focus on the Mun lander: can not see Kerbin, can see a Mun sat that has los to Kerbin, but the lander relays via Minmus (all the same antennas). The one Mun sat that has los to the Mun lander and los to Kerbin relays via the lander. The other Mun sat can see Kerbin but relays via the Kerbin sat, just as everything else that can see it and Kerbin. Anything relays to Kerbin directly only if it can not see the Kerbin sat.

Edited May 30, 2016 by rkman

[rasta013]

11 hours ago, rkman said:

In this case all vessels have the same antenna (the stock 'flat dish'), except one in low Kerbin orbit which has a large hinged disc. Presumably Kerbin itself has a better antenna and should be preferred over that Kerbin sat.  
The long-way-around paths are at least the same number of hops as the shorter paths - all have the same antennas except for the last hop via the Kerbin sat (instead of to Kerbin directly) for vessels that have los to it. Setting packet throttle on unwanted relays to its lowest value makes no difference.

I noticed the paths depend on which vessel is selected.  

- With focus on the sat in Kerbin orbit everything that can see it relays via that sat.  
- Switching to one of the Mun sats there is only a line between the Mun sat and Kerbin and a line between it and the Kerbin sat. Seems to indicate the Kerbin sat relays via the Mun sat, in fact everything that has los relays via that Mun sat (if it has focus).
- Focus on the Mun lander: can not see Kerbin, can see a Mun sat that has los to Kerbin, but the lander relays via Minmus (all the same antennas). The one Mun sat that has los to the Mun lander and los to Kerbin relays via the lander. The other Mun sat can see Kerbin but relays via the Kerbin sat, just as everything else that can see it and Kerbin. Anything relays to Kerbin directly only if it can not see the Kerbin sat.

Well here's my best guess from your description.  Each transmitter is doing calculations to figure out which relay is going to be best in terms of transmission.  As each antenna is (largely) exactly the same the likelihood is you're simply within close enough range that the nominal transmission stats are boosted high enough that the distances involved  make the Kerbin ground transmitter just minutely worse in terms of end numbers.  The fact that the picture changes from craft to craft is a bit weird but I'd probably literally have to be sitting at your PC to be more specific about it than this.  Honestly though, this type of behavior is not all that unusual to me.  I've seen some seriously strange behavior that on the surface didn't appear right to me at all until I started really digging into the numbers.  Some of the points to remember is that, the closer the link, the faster the nominal transmission speed becomes.  So when dealing with even reasonably strong antennas and very nearby distances like the local Kerbin system you are bound to see some kind of odd behavior.  This is one of the reasons I took an interest in adding antennas and configurations for them to my game because not only do I like the appearance variations but having a wider selection allows me to make far more predictable networks.  Perhaps @toadicus can enlighten both of us a bit more.

Edited May 31, 2016 by rasta013