[1.8+] Real Fuels

[AdmiralTigerclaw]

@NathanKell

 

I have what looks like an RF crash bug to report.

 

Bug reproduction as follows:

1: Enter VAB and begin building a craft by starting with a pod.

2: Select the LV-T30 liquid fuel engine and connect to the pod.

3: Remove the LV-T30 and placehold it by floating it in the build area unattached to a craft.

4: Move the LV-T30 around in the build area by dragging and 'placing' it back into the free area multiple times.

5: After several random moves, the game CTD'd.

 

I saw no output errors in the program log.  The last thing before CTD in the output log was ullage notes.

Upon removal of Real Fuels and repeating of steps 1 - 4, I no longer encounter CTDs.

 

I'm going to go test putting the mod back in and disabling the ullage settings.  See what I get.

 

EDIT:

Just tested the routine with a disabled ullage.  No crash.

Edited May 3, 2016 by AdmiralTigerclaw
Update

[Errol]

1 hour ago, Starwaster said:

Engine Ignitor is built into Real Fuels now.

What you're asking is possible but you would have to remove Community Resources Pack, or at least override it by writing custom tank configs that revert back to using stock resources. And you would have to write up new engine configs or write an MM patch that configures the engines to support limited ignitions

So if I change all the values in squad_modularfueltanks.cfg to use stock resources and for any other mods I use in their configs, like KAX, that'll work, right? 

I don't know how to get started on the engine igniter configs though. I'm trying to find an example of the code to copypasta, but don't really know what I'm reading. I'm willing to put in the time to generate the .cfgs for all the stock engines at least, if I can get a little help on how to get started.

[Starwaster]

28 minutes ago, Errol said:

So if I change all the values in squad_modularfueltanks.cfg to use stock resources and for any other mods I use in their configs, like KAX, that'll work, right? 

I don't know how to get started on the engine igniter configs though. I'm trying to find an example of the code to copypasta, but don't really know what I'm reading. I'm willing to put in the time to generate the .cfgs for all the stock engines at least, if I can get a little help on how to get started.

Here's an example of an ignitor config:

That goes into the part's config or if you have engine configs (ModuleEngineConfig) on the part then it can be part of one of those configs

				ModuleEngineIgnitor
				{
					ignitionsAvailable = 1
					useUllageSimulation = true
					autoIgnitionTemperature = 800
					ignitorType = Electric
					IGNITOR_RESOURCE
					{
						name = ElectricCharge
						amount = 0.2
					}
				}

 

[Errol]

Thanks a million. Perhaps if I have time this week I'll surf wikipedia and try to come up with a reasonable balance for ignitor configs for all the stock engines. Hope to share soon!

[NathanKell]

@Starwaster ModuleEngineConfigs supports that kind of thing for backwards compatibility, but only that. If an engine doesn't have ModuleEngineConfigs then that isn't going to work. Instead you'll need to add the new syntax directly to the engine module.

Further, that is not going to work in either case unless the engine module is ModuleEnginesRF.

ETA: Also, note that RF does not support 'ignitor packs' or 'external ignitors' or all that KAS-related stuff. It just supports engines having limited ignitions, and ullage, and being pressure-fed.

[Errol]

So, for example, the LVT-30 has:

        name = ModuleEngines

does that mean that it will not work, since it is not ModuleEnginesRF?

EDIT: So I tried @Starwaster's example code in the part .cfg (just inside the last curly bracket} for the LV-T30.....didn't appear to do anything to the part in game.

I don't really know what a "ModuleEngineConfig" is, or ModuleEnginesRF, or if/how to add them to stock engines, or if that is possible/is the thing that needs to be done.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Errol

[Starwaster]

52 minutes ago, Errol said:

So, for example, the LVT-30 has:

        name = ModuleEngines

does that mean that it will not work, since it is not ModuleEnginesRF?

EDIT: So I tried @Starwaster's example code in the part .cfg (just inside the last curly bracket} for the LV-T30.....didn't appear to do anything to the part in game.

I don't really know what a "ModuleEngineConfig" is, or ModuleEnginesRF, or if/how to add them to stock engines, or if that is possible/is the thing that needs to be done.

Check out how these engine configs do it: https://github.com/Raptor831/RFStockalike/blob/ea9bbcc84efeb6ee1c9174150c8aa4b4c196d248/GameData/RealFuels-Stockalike/Stockalike_Squad.cfg

[Errol]

Thank you so much sir! A saint you are!

[dlrk]

Has anyone made an MM config or anything to use KSPI/Stock/UKS ISRU with Real Fuels?

[Starwaster]

5 hours ago, dlrk said:

Has anyone made an MM config or anything to use KSPI/Stock/UKS ISRU with Real Fuels?

Don't use Real Fuels with KSPI. Pick one or the other. There are compatibility issues between the two.

[dlrk]

Starwaster, what's your opinion on KSPI? The main reason I like it is the ISRU, but if there is a different ISRU system that works with RF, I'll take that

Edited May 3, 2016 by dlrk

[Starwaster]

1 hour ago, dlrk said:

Starwaster, what's your opinion on KSPI? The main reason I like it is the ISRU, but if there is a different ISRU system that works with RF, I'll take that

KSPI represents technology beyond what I want to play so I don't use it to begin with.

I won't say more past that in a public forum.

[dlrk]

1 hour ago, Starwaster said:

KSPI represents technology beyond what I want to play so I don't use it to begin with.

I won't say more past that in a public forum.

I'd interested in hearing more. PM?

[Raptor831]

There's a Real ISRU mod being developed, albeit slowly: 

Be warned, though, this is intended as a RO/RSS piece, so don't expect Kethane/Karbonite/Ore/magic to turn your compound into every fuel you need. That said, if you're in the Real Fuels thread, I think you wouldn't mind some Realism in your game.

[Enceos]

@NathanKell I know it has been discussed numerous of times in this thread and there are at least two mods with a similar feature. I'm bringing up the SRB thrust curves again, I've been searching the forums for several hours but nobody has ever posted a fully working config patch for that. I'm trying to make one universal config which adds thrust curves to all SRBs. I've been using EngineThrustController in the past with this patch:

Spoiler

@PART[*]:HAS[@RESOURCE[SolidFuel],!MODULE[ModuleSRBThrust]]
{
    !MODULE[ModuleEngineThrustController] {}

    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleEngineThrustController
        minimumThrustPercent = 0.01
        canAdjustAtAnytime = false
        showItemInList = false
    }
    
    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleSRBThrust
        resourceName = SolidFuel
        useTimeCurve = false
        thrustCurve
        {
            key = 0.00 0.01
            key = 0.02 0.25
            key = 0.15 0.48
            key = 0.35 0.65
            key = 0.55 0.72
            key = 0.65 0.81
            key = 0.70 0.90
            key = 0.78 0.81
            key = 0.80 0.90
            key = 1.0  1.00
        }
    }
}

But ETC doesn't work anymore and I have to switch to another mod which supports curves with several thrust keys.

I tried to get help from @Felbourn, but by the looks of his Git repo he has RealismOverhaul installed for Alexandria and does config patches on per engine basis overwriting what RO provides, there's no universal config there. His old projects use ETC.

I have installed SolverEngines and RealFuels. Deleted all the config files from the RealFuels folder except for the MFSSettings.cfg and the RealSettings.cfg

I've taken a look at the RealismOverhaul configs for SRBs, but it adds and modifies a bunch of values. I don't know which of them are required to enable the feature and which I can omit.

Here's the patch for the stock SRB from Realism Overhaul:

Spoiler

@PART[solidBooster]:FOR[RealismOverhaul]:NEEDS[!RftS,!RealFuels_StockEngines]
{
    %RSSROConfig = True
    !MODULE[TweakScale]
    {
    }
    !mesh = DELETE
    !MODEL {}
    MODEL
    {
        model = Squad/Parts/Engine/solidBoosterRT-10/model
        scale = 2.3368, 2.632887, 2.3368
    }
    @MODEL:NEEDS[VenStockRevamp]
    {
        @model = VenStockRevamp/Squad/Parts/Propulsion/RT5
        @scale = 2.3368, 4.4402956655, 2.3368
        %position = 0, 0.2577835324, 0
    }
    @scale = 1.0
    %rescaleFactor = 1.0
    @node_stack_bottom = 0.0, -3.294453, 0.0, 0.0, -1.0, 0.0, 2
    @node_stack_top = 0.0, 2.699947, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 2
    @node_attach = 0.0, 0.0, -1.1684, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 1
    @title = Castor 30XL
    @manufacturer = Thiokol (ATK)
    @description = The Castor 30XL is an enlarged Castor 30. Designed for the second stage of the Antares launcher. [2.34m]
    @attachRules = 1,1,1,1,0
    @mass = 2.3
    @maxTemp = 1973.15
    @MODULE[ModuleEngines*]
    {
        @minThrust = 0
        @maxThrust = 715
        @heatProduction = 100
        @atmosphereCurve
        {
            @key,0 = 0 303
            @key,1 = 0 100
        }
    }
    @MODULE[ModuleEngines*]:NEEDS[VenStockRevamp]
    {
        @thrustVectorTransformName = thrustTransform
    }
    !RESOURCE[SolidFuel]
    {
    }
    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleFuelTanks
        volume = 12824.84
        type = HTPB
        basemass = -1
    }
    MODULE:NEEDS[!VenStockRevamp]
    {
        name = ModuleGimbal
        gimbalTransformName = thrustTransform
    }
    @MODULE[ModuleGimbal]
    {
        %gimbalRange = 3.5
        %useGimbalResponseSpeed = true
        %gimbalResponseSpeed = 16
    }
    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleEngineConfigs
        type = ModuleEngines
        configuration = 30XL
        modded = false
        CONFIG
        {
            name = 30XL
            maxThrust = 715
            heatProduction = 100
            PROPELLANT
            {
                name = HTPB
                ratio = 1
                DrawGauge = True
            }
            atmosphereCurve
            {
                key = 0 303
                key = 1 100
            }
            curveResource = HTPB
            thrustCurve
            {
                key = 0.99998 0.250
                key = 0.99493 0.483
                key = 0.98966 0.505
                key = 0.9842 0.524
                key = 0.97861 0.535
                key = 0.97282 0.554
                key = 0.96679 0.578
                key = 0.96056 0.597
                key = 0.95403 0.625
                key = 0.9473 0.644
                key = 0.9403 0.67
                key = 0.93308 0.692
                key = 0.92559 0.718
                key = 0.91787 0.739
                key = 0.91006 0.749
                key = 0.90219 0.753
                key = 0.89421 0.765
                key = 0.88619 0.768
                key = 0.87813 0.772
                key = 0.87005 0.775
                key = 0.86193 0.777
                key = 0.85377 0.782
                key = 0.84556 0.787
                key = 0.83725 0.796
                key = 0.82887 0.803
                key = 0.82036 0.815
                key = 0.81178 0.822
                key = 0.8031 0.832
                key = 0.79432 0.841
                key = 0.78541 0.853
                key = 0.77644 0.86
                key = 0.76734 0.872
                key = 0.75813 0.881
                key = 0.74884 0.891
                key = 0.73946 0.898
                key = 0.73001 0.905
                key = 0.72047 0.915
                key = 0.71082 0.924
                key = 0.70113 0.929
                key = 0.69136 0.936
                key = 0.68151 0.943
                key = 0.67157 0.953
                key = 0.6616 0.955
                key = 0.65159 0.96
                key = 0.64152 0.964
                key = 0.63138 0.972
                key = 0.62121 0.974
                key = 0.61097 0.981
                key = 0.60071 0.983
                key = 0.59042 0.986
                key = 0.58011 0.988
                key = 0.56977 0.99
                key = 0.5594 0.993
                key = 0.54899 0.998
                key = 0.53855 1
                key = 0.52812 1
                key = 0.51768 1
                key = 0.50724 1
                key = 0.4968 1
                key = 0.48636 1
                key = 0.47593 1
                key = 0.46551 0.998
                key = 0.45512 0.995
                key = 0.44474 0.995
                key = 0.43437 0.993
                key = 0.42403 0.991
                key = 0.41374 0.986
                key = 0.40348 0.983
                key = 0.39326 0.979
                key = 0.38312 0.972
                key = 0.37303 0.967
                key = 0.36298 0.962
                key = 0.35301 0.955
                key = 0.34312 0.948
                key = 0.33327 0.943
                key = 0.3235 0.936
                key = 0.31381 0.929
                key = 0.30418 0.922
                key = 0.29468 0.91
                key = 0.28528 0.901
                key = 0.27598 0.891
                key = 0.26683 0.877
                key = 0.25773 0.872
                key = 0.24877 0.858
                key = 0.23994 0.846
                key = 0.23123 0.834
                key = 0.22262 0.825
                key = 0.21413 0.813
                key = 0.2058 0.799
                key = 0.19758 0.787
                key = 0.18952 0.773
                key = 0.1816 0.759
                key = 0.17381 0.747
                key = 0.16619 0.73
                key = 0.15869 0.718
                key = 0.15136 0.702
                key = 0.14419 0.687
                key = 0.13716 0.673
                key = 0.13031 0.657
                key = 0.12358 0.645
                key = 0.11702 0.628
                key = 0.11058 0.616
                key = 0.10435 0.597
                key = 0.09828 0.581
                key = 0.09232 0.571
                key = 0.08653 0.555
                key = 0.08089 0.541
                key = 0.07542 0.524
                key = 0.07007 0.512
                key = 0.06485 0.5
                key = 0.05977 0.486
                key = 0.05485 0.472
                key = 0.05009 0.455
                key = 0.04551 0.439
                key = 0.04108 0.425
                key = 0.0368 0.41
                key = 0.03264 0.399
                key = 0.02865 0.382
                key = 0.02479 0.37
                key = 0.0211 0.354
                key = 0.01756 0.339
                key = 0.01416 0.325
                key = 0.01097 0.306
                key = 0.00787 0.297
                key = 0.00497 0.278
                key = 0.00249 0.237
                key = 0.00137 0.107
                key = 0.00119 0.017
                key = 0.00119 0.001
            }
        }
    }
}
 

And here's the patch I'm trying to apply:

Spoiler

@PART[*]:HAS[@RESOURCE[SolidFuel]]:FOR[RealFuels]
{
    @MODULE[ModuleEngine*]
    {
        @name = ModuleEnginesRF
    }

    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleEngineConfigs
        type = ModuleEnginesRF
        configuration = MaxQ
        CONFIG
        {
            name = Linear
            curveResource = SolidFuel
            thrustCurve
            {
                key = 0.00 0.01
                key = 0.06 0.25
                key = 0.95 1.00 0 0
                key = 1.00 0.10
            }
        }
        CONFIG
        {
            name = MaxQ
            curveResource = SolidFuel
            thrustCurve
            {
                key = 0.00 0.01
                key = 0.02 0.01
                key = 0.03 0.16
                key = 0.04 0.20
                key = 0.60 0.99
                key = 0.80 0.60
                key = 0.94 1.00
                key = 1.00 0.10
            }
        }
        CONFIG
        {
            name = Delayed
            curveResource = SolidFuel
            thrustCurve
            {
                key = 0.00 0.00
                key = 0.01 0.01
                key = 0.03 0.20
                key = 0.60 0.98
                key = 0.61 0.97
                key = 0.78 0.22
                key = 1.00 0.10
            }
        }
        CONFIG
        {
            name = Fast
            curveResource = SolidFuel
            thrustCurve
            {
                key = 0.00 0.05
                key = 0.01 0.11
                key = 0.95 1.00 0 0
                key = 1.00 0.10
            }
        }
    }
}

I'm obviously missing something. I can see the Engine GUI button and see a list of thrust configs, but when I hover over them the tooltip shows no data and the SRB behaves the stock way in flight.

Also, will it work with TweakScale in the end? Maybe I'm digging too deep and stock ModuleEngineFX supports the thrust curves?

Edited May 4, 2016 by Enceos

[NathanKell]

@Enceos as of 1.1, KSP natively supports thrust curves! Please see here:

EDIT: Nope, can't see here because the forum is hidden. When the thread exists again, see here:

 

[Vaporized Steel]

I have just installed RSS/R0 in ksp 1.05

And I have a problem with real fuels or engine ignitor.

When I use staging to let's say light up my engines they burn just fine.

But when I get to my next staging command which is let's say "releasing launch clamps" or "decoupling a booster" that next staging command triggers my engines to flameout. When I test a launch stage with a engine with more then 1 ignitions the engines does keep running after I use a next staging command, but then uses up 1 ignition.

how do I fix this?

 

Edited May 4, 2016 by Vaporized Steel

[NathanKell]

@Vaporized Steel this sounds like you have a bad RemoteTech install.

[Gordon Dry]

5 hours ago, Vaporized Steel said:

I have just installed RSS/R0 in ksp 1.05

And I have a problem with real fuels or engine ignitor.

When I use staging to let's say light up my engines they burn just fine.

But when I get to my next staging command which is let's say "releasing launch clamps" or "decoupling a booster" that next staging command triggers my engines to flameout. When I test a launch stage with a engine with more then 1 ignitions the engines does keep running after I use a next staging command, but then uses up 1 ignition.

how do I fix this?

 

I'm a newbie but I already learned to place decoupling of actual stage and ullage thrusters of next stage in the same stage (plus eventually parachutes for the actual stage if it's still in atmosphere and I want to recover it in good shape).

Where solid fueled hardcore ullage thrusters are not the best idea, I just use powerful RCS thrusters.

MechJeb2 dev build works fine so far, so I can also utilize RCS for thrusting when engine power is off.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Gordon Dry

[Vaporized Steel]

Thanks for your help. But your getting the wrong idea here. It has nothing to do with ullage. This happens on the launchpad in my latest design and also well inside the atmosphere on another rocket I used.

Oh and as for Remote tech 2, that could indeed be the problem. But I tried several versions of the releases on the remote tech 2 github page that are all said to work on ksp 1.05. So I tried different versions, none of them solve the problem.

I have the following exact scenario.

A center core liquid fuel main stage. And 2 solid fuel boosters on the sides.
Igniting the liquid center stage is the first Stage command.
The second command is igniting the solids and releasing the launch clamps.

The result is that the liquid fueled center engine fails and the solids fire. It seems to automatically trigger the engine to reignite in the next stage even although the engine is not actually part of the next stage that I wish to execute.

http://imgur.com/a/jwS0S

picture 1 shows vehicle at launch.
2nd picture shows the use of the first stage igniting the center stage.
Third picture releasing the launch clamps and igniting the boosters shows the engine dropping to 0 Kn thrust and displayed that the engine ran out of ignitions. So I don't think it's remote tech, because that explains that for whatever reason the engine failed a command was given for the engine to reignite. But it shouldn't because it only has 1 ignition.

This makes me wonder if theres a problem with engine ignitor.
 

Edited May 5, 2016 by Vaporized Steel

[dlrk]

Is there an ISRU system for use with Real Fuels? For example, can it be made to work with UKS/EPL?

[SpacedInvader]

Looking for a little help with an MM config to remove ullage and ignition limitations from orbital engines only. My reasoning is that I'd like limited ignitions for ascent / descent engines, but I'm just way too much of a perfectionist when it comes to fine tuning orbits (especially geosynchronous... spent an hour and probably 30 ignitions on one satellite once...) to want to put up with the limitations imparted by the mod there. In the past this was less of an issue because I was able to use pressurized tank types and I simply gave up on engine ignitor, but now that the former aren't an option anymore and the latter is built into RF, I'd like to try to find a happy medium without having to simply disable ullage and ignition limitations across the board.

Here is what I had hoped would work, but doesn't want to, probably due to my lack of skill with MM configurations:

@PART[*]:HAS[MODULE[ModuleEngineConfigs[HAS[#engineType[O]]]]]:FINAL
{
 @MODULE[ModuleEngineConfigs]
 {
  @CONFIG,*
  {
   @ModuleEngineIgnitor
   {
	@ignitionsAvailable = -1
	@useUllageSimulation = false				
   }
  }
 }
}

the idea was to search out all of the engine configs with the orbital type and then set them to infinite ignitions without ullage simulation. I have a gut feeling that the issue is coming from the massive initial line with the nested search, which is something I've never been able to get to work correctly in MM, and honestly don't even know if its possible.

Is what I'm trying to accomplish with this even possible? If so, how can I go about doing it without having to manually change every engine config?

Thanks

[Starwaster]

deleted

Edited May 6, 2016 by Starwaster

[NathanKell]

 

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleEngineConfigs]:HAS[#engineType[O]]]:FINAL
{
 @MODULE[ModuleEngineConfigs]
 {
  @CONFIG,*
  {
   @ModuleEngineIgnitor
   {
	@ignitionsAvailable = 0
	@useUllageSimulation = False				
   }
   @ullage = False
   @ignitions = 0
  }
 }
}

 

[SpacedInvader]

@Starwaster & @NathanKell, thanks for the help in getting this sorted out. I'm glad that the issue was my lack of ability with MM rather than an impossibility in the task (I've run into that one more than once). Also, looking at the second one by Nathan and comparing it to the engine configs in my stockalike folder, it doesn't seem like the @ullage or @ ignitions should work as they refer to values which don't seem to exist, yet it does work. If you have time, can you explain why?

Also, @Starwaster, I only use tabs in my MM configs at the beginning of the line, however, it looks a lot better in Notepad++ than it does in the forum code section, so I switched it to spaces for appearances only.