NASA Asteroid Redirect Mission Pack/0.23.5 Images: now with 100% more SLS

[Woopert]

For comparison, if you want to look at the Saturn-V, each of the five engines in the lower stage (Rocketdyne F-1 engines) put out something like 6700 kn of thrust. Each. Of course things are scaled down a bit here in comparison, but the lifting thrust on the Saturn-V at the pad was in the ballpark of 33,500 KN. To get that with Mainsails, you need at least 22 of them. Like I said, I know we're scaled down, but it's worth taking into consideration.

EDIT: Unless you're talking about the new 2.5m engine pairs specifically... yeah, if they replace mainsails altogether, that might be a bit OP. We'll have to see.

That is a good comparison, however the Saturn V lifted off without boosters. On the SLS, NASA is using RS-25s (SSMEs) because they had them left over from the Space Shuttle program, and it would be cheaper to use those instead of developing new ones. NASA also has a very good understanding of how they work, so that's why they're using them.

Well, that was sort of off topic. But the point is, instead of using ultra powerful engines like the F-1, NASA is opting to use RS-25s, which are not as powerful, each has 1859 Kn of thrust as the surface. And they're only using 4, thus allowing the boosters to aid until enough fuel drains. Anyways, my little science talk over. I like how with the KSP community we can discuss these sorts of things.

It should at least be blue.

I think the best option might be to color the mainsails with this new engine effect, and either blue or clear for the new engine. It's a pretty well agreed consensus that the Mainsails are the F-1 analogs, and kerosene is known for it's yellow-ish dirty looking exhaust!

Edited March 25, 2014 by Woopert

[Rizendell]

I got excited about the .25.5 and then realized it still isn't out and still doesn't have a release date. Sometimes I wish we could just have a single bi-weekly bug fix or something.

[_jack]

SO EXCITED FOR 0.23.5!!! Looks so great!

[CaptRobau]

EDIT: Unless you're talking about the new 2.5m engine pairs specifically... yeah, if they replace mainsails altogether, that might be a bit OP. We'll have to see.

Mainsails can still be used for pancake designs and for realistic design as a construct-a-spacecraft-in-orbit-over-multiple-launches kind of launch vehicle. They'll also make an immediate comeback when money is involved as those large engines/tanks are bound to be very expensive.

[Rakaydos]

The 2.5 engine pairs are also poorly designed for 6x symetry- 6 asparagussed mainsails will be better than 4 engine pairs.

[Tw1]

For those that haven't/can't watch video right now, I've gone and taken some screenshots of some of the new parts, and their descriptions.

[Giggleplex777]

Strange how the advanced engine as lower Isp in vacuum than ASl, since it seems to be used as a second stage motor.

[kiwiak]

I wonder whats the point of warp in space center scene wihout any timer or calendar visible.

I will use alarm clock for that anyway, but...

[r4pt0r]

I wonder whats the point of warp in space center scene wihout any timer or calendar visible.

I will use alarm clock for that anyway, but...

can we warp from the tracking center too? i forget

[kiwiak]

can we warp from the tracking center too? i forget

yes and fortunetly there is a timer there

[GusTurbo]

I wonder whats the point of warp in space center scene wihout any timer or calendar visible.

I will use alarm clock for that anyway, but...

I've been wanting that feature for a while just so I can change it from night to day before loading up a craft.

[GusTurbo]

Strange how the advanced engine as lower Isp in vacuum than ASl, since it seems to be used as a second stage motor.

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of that. I hope that's some kind of mistake because it doesn't make sense.

[Guest]

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of that. I hope that's some kind of mistake because it doesn't make sense.

Same here. The Isp is too high at sea level and too low in vacuum.

[Rakaydos]

I'm pretty sure the super-mainsail has 3 different ISPs- an Atmo (medium), a Vaccuum (low), and Peak (highest)

So after launch the engine gets MORE efficent, but drops off as it gets closer to vaccuum.

[cantab]

So the Ant engine's been buffed to 4 kN thrust. The Ion engine's had the thrust upped to 2 kN, but the ISP's been slashed to 2100-2500 atmo-vacuum.

Source:

[DisarmingBaton5]

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of that. I hope that's some kind of mistake because it doesn't make sense.

Indeed. It would promote shallower launch trajectories, though.

[NovaSilisko]

Lower Isp in a vacuum is something you'd pretty much have to deliberately design the engine around to accomplish. Your rocket would somehow have to be producing less overall thrust for a given rate of fuel in a vacuum than at sea level. It's really not possible for an engine to behave that way, it would imply the rocket is encountering more resistance firing into a vacuum than into air.

[Deathsoul097]

But Max and Yarg said that it is actually really efficient in Vac? I think someone put the numbers in backwards, and that it is actually supposed to be a Vac ISP of 380, and an ASL ISP of 280. It is easy enough to do b accident, and probably something that has already been corrected, and what we are seeing in it being more Atmo efficient is just an earlier version with a muck up in the CFG.

[Sandworm]

Does the bell fall off at a given altitude? That would be the only means imho.

[Superfluous J]

I wonder whats the point of warp in space center scene wihout any timer or calendar visible.

I will use alarm clock for that anyway, but...

You want to launch at sunrise, and you're not at all sure your ship can get into space. If you go directly to the VAB or launch pad and then fast forward time, when you "revert flight" it'll be noon again and you'll have to fast forward time again. And again. And again. The current "fix" for this is to go to the launch pad with a dummy ship, or go to the tracking station and fly another ship, and then fast forward to sunrise or sunset or day time or night time or whatever, and THEN go into the VAB or launch pad to start testing your ship.

With this update, you'll be able to just fast forward right there and see when the sun rises or sets or is noon or whatever you want. Now, when you revert your flight 20 times you don't have to do the time warp again.

And if this feels like a very specific and uncommon set of circumstances, you obviously don't play the way I do.

[NovaSilisko]

Does the bell fall off at a given altitude? That would be the only means imho.

I've heard of ditching parts on the way up to conserve delta-v, but now it's just getting ridiculous

[cantab]

I know it's not in ARM, but for a future update I'd like an engine using a Thrust Augmented Nozzle. Technical details here, but basically it's a rocket afterburner.

[problemecium]

That PDF was written with a lot of opaque technical jargon and with boring formatting (and I'm up too late again), but if my hunch is right, is that a thing you can put on a rocket to trade thrust for efficiency, like gearing up a car? Because if so DO WANT because I've been dreaming of a similar concept for a while now.

[CaptainKipard]

I wonder whats the point of warp in space center scene wihout any timer or calendar visible.

I will use alarm clock for that anyway, but...

If you're going for efficiency, then if you're launching a Minmus mission, you will wait until you're at the ascending or descending node, and launch directly into an inclined orbit.

[LordQ]

That PDF was written with a lot of opaque technical jargon and with boring formatting (and I'm up too late again), but if my hunch is right, is that a thing you can put on a rocket to trade thrust for efficiency, like gearing up a car? Because if so DO WANT because I've been dreaming of a similar concept for a while now.

It seems to just be a system for introducing propellant and oxidiser directly into the nozzle of a rocket engine if I'm not mistaken. And opaque technical jargon? Boring formatting? It's an academic paper, not a pamphlet.