[1.10.1] SCANsat [v20.4] -- Real Scanning, Real Science, at Warp Speed! [September 9, 2020]

[Gilph]

Hi,

I am a MKS user.  Running the Narrow band, I see all of the USI resources and the percentages look fine (not just ore, as you previously mentioned).  But if I select kerbnet access from the narrow band menu, it says "Kerbnet is Offline" and wants me to run an orbital survey, which was already completed. If I click your Kerbnet Network icon, it comes up.  If I try and click through the resources, it shows ore, then I get the offline message again.  Is this part of the bug you mentioned?

[DMagic]

@Gilph It's hard to say without more information. By my KerbNet icon do you mean the toolbar icon from KerbNet Controller?

If you have disabled stock resource scanning with SCANsat then there will be an option to complete the stock resource scan once your SCANsay resource scanning has passed a certain threshold (this value can be adjusted and only applies to the M700, low resolution resource scan). Passing that threshold should allow for the KerbNet resource scan to work.

In general I would just advise not to use KerbNet if you are using SCANsat. The SCANsat zoom window provides largely the same function and it can be centered on the current vessel position using the little probe icon in the top-right. 

In a little while I plan on working on SCANsat again. I will be replacing the old UI with the new Unity UI system and overhauling the zoom window, I will also add support for creating stock waypoints at that time, this and a few other changes should make it work a bit more like the KerbNet window (but without its shortcomings.

Edited November 19, 2016 by DMagic

[Angelo Kerman]

42 minutes ago, DMagic said:

@Gilph It's hard to say without more information. By my KerbNet icon do you mean the toolbar icon from KerbNet Controller?

If you have disabled stock resource scanning with SCANsat then there will be an option to complete the stock resource scan once your SCANsay resource scanning has passed a certain threshold (this value can be adjusted and only applies to the M700, low resolution resource scan). Passing that threshold should allow for the KerbNet resource scan to work.

In general I would just advise not to use KerbNet if you are using SCANsat. The SCANsat zoom window provides largely the same function and it can be centered on the current vessel position using the little probe icon in the top-right. 

In a little while I plan on working on SCANsat again. I will be replacing the old UI with the new Unity UI system and overhauling the zoom window, I will also add support for creating stock waypoints at that time, this and a few other changes should make it work a bit more like the KerbNet window (but without its shortcomings.

That sounds great! I'm especially excited to be able to use the stock waypoint system with SCANSat. I have been trying KerbNet but miss the ease of use of SCANSat. I do love how you need a valid connection back to Kerbin for KerbNet to work. Would that be possible in the new SCANSat? 

Thanks for all your hard work.  SCANSat has been a staple in my career games for a long time now.

[JeffreyCor]

Only thing I've really used KerbNet for was real time terrain info when landing. It's the only thing that ScanSat hasn't done as well or better

Edited November 21, 2016 by JeffreyCor

[DMagic]

I'm not sure that there is any feasible way to handle CommNet connections for SCANsat. Even in its simplest implementation, assume scanners have no local storage and must be in contact with Kerbin to scan, it wouldn't work.

SCANsat doesn't work by checking vessel location every frame, that would not provide sufficient resolution at high time warp. It has to interpolate where the vessel would be at a certain time. Checking this for a few vessels at a time isn't a problem, but to accurately monitor CommNet status it would have to check the position of every vessel, and update their connection status, and do this potentially dozens or hundreds of times per frame. Otherwise the status could be wrong. At high time warp you could miss several orbits because the scanner was not connected at the beginning of the process, or you could scan for several orbits even though the vessel might lose its connection when it passed behind the planet.

@JeffreyCor Do you mean the way KerbNet instantly updates its map, or that it has the auto-update button? It can update instantly mostly because it trades speed for accuracy; only 1 in 4 pixels is actually calculated.

One of the things I want to change for the zoom map is to allow for options for how fast it generates. 1.2 made some significant improvements in the terrain altitude calculation speed, so I could allow for generating 2, or 4 lines of the map every frame instead of 1. And the biome map could be made even faster, since there isn't as much of a need for the high accuracy terrain map when it is drawn behind the biome map.

Another thing is to allow for clamping the zoom map to the vessel location, that way it could auto-update to follow the vessel, and provide the readout information (terrain height, biome, slope, etc...) without needing to have the mouse over the map.

[JeffreyCor]

Not using for high accuracy, more of a landing radar for making sure I'm not about to miss the more level area and land on a drop off instead ScanSat gives a GREAT overall and high detail for planning a mission, but doesn't work as well for doing on the fly decisions like are needed for some missions, etc.

 

[LordFerret]

I rely heavily on SCANsat; I won't land on a foreign body without scanning it first. I find it invaluable for exploration and essential for trip planning. One thing I would like to see, is a button which overlays and indicates the day and night terminator on the big map... it doesn't have to be fancy or complicated, maybe something simple similar to this. I would find it a big help to be able to glance at the big map and know if I can begin planning my descent burns.

I guess you can consider this a feature request. lol

Edited November 23, 2016 by LordFerret

[JeffreyCor]

45 minutes ago, LordFerret said:

I rely heavily on SCANsat; I won't land on a foreign body without scanning it first. I find it invaluable for exploration and essential for trip planning. One thing I would like to see, is a button which overlays and indicates the day and night terminator on the big map... it doesn't have to be fancy or complicated, maybe something simple similar to this. I would find it a big help to be able to glance at the big map and know if I can begin planning my descent burns.

I guess you can consider this a feature request. lol

I've run into this need many times! I always set up an marker in SCANSat, then go into stock map view to see where the terminator is. Something like this being on the maps would be amazing!

[DMagic]

https://github.com/S-C-A-N/SCANsat/issues/4

As you can see by the issue number, this one has been around basically since the start (these first issues were carried over from the old thread).

I've never really looked into it, but I can try to find out how feasible it is.

Edited November 23, 2016 by DMagic

[LordFerret]

13 hours ago, DMagic said:

https://github.com/S-C-A-N/SCANsat/issues/4

As you can see by the issue number, this one has been around basically since the start (these first issues were carried over from the old thread).

I've never really looked into it, but I can try to find out how feasible it is.

@DMagic

I'm sure many would like to see it, real-time updated as the body rotates. To me that spells a lot of work. I would be happy with a 'here and now' snapshot button, which could be clicked whenever to refresh (if that makes any sense to you).

[COL.R.Neville]

whats the least used dmmagic item? maybe you have to use that per hemisphere or something before any of that would unlock? 

[Drew Kerman]

I'll admit I've been waiting for DMagic to figure out the terminator display so I could look at the code and maybe make my own hacked model better As of right now it only works on Kerbin and is slightly inaccurate at the poles, but the lack of planetary tilt does help make things easier, heh.

[KedwinHubble]

Just wanted to say thanks not only for the mod, but for taking the time to keep the first post so well organized and formatted. It makes everything a lot easier. So, anyway, thanks!

[Motokid600]

How do i get rid of waypoints? I made one to designate a landing spot, but not i cant figure out how to get rid of it for the life of me. The "toggler waypoint" button only seems to function in the zoom map. It still persists on the big map and the main map.

[Epicdreamer]

@Motokid600 Select the waypoint button in for example the big map of the Scansat mod and click somewhere outside the mapsection, but within the scansat window. Voila, waypoint removed...

[Motokid600]

9 minutes ago, Epicdreamer said:

@Motokid600 Select the waypoint button in for example the big map of the Scansat mod and click somewhere outside the mapsection, but within the scansat window. Voila, waypoint removed...

Thank you very much!

[tsaven]

Hey guys, I'm hoping I can get a little guidance here as I'm a bit fuzzy on what parts are required to do what.  For reference, I'm also using UKS and want to scan for those resources as well.

I have "Resource Biome Lock" and "Disable Stock Scanning" ticked, with the other options in the settings menu un-ticked.  What does this mean I now need to do to be able to get highly accurate data on resource concentrations in my maps so I can figure out where to put my bases?

Do I need to do a scan with the Wide-band scanner first, then a scan from orbit with the Narrow-Band, then landed with the surface sampler?  Or does the narrow band now work as a surface sampler too?  What will give me the ability to see a high-res map of resources from orbit, as well as being able to drive along and see a readout of the concentrations?  As it currently seams, when I drive along with both the Narrow-Band Scanner and the stock Surface Scanner on a rover, I can run an analysis per biome but even when I drive along it doesn't seem like the concentrations vary at all.

Thank you for the help, I've been trying to wrap my head around this for a bit and want to make sure I have a clear understanding.

Edited December 4, 2016 by tsaven

[DStaal]

15 hours ago, tsaven said:

Hey guys, I'm hoping I can get a little guidance here as I'm a bit fuzzy on what parts are required to do what.  For reference, I'm also using UKS and want to scan for those resources as well.

I have "Resource Biome Lock" and "Disable Stock Scanning" ticked, with the other options in the settings menu un-ticked.  What does this mean I now need to do to be able to get highly accurate data on resource concentrations in my maps so I can figure out where to put my bases?

Do I need to do a scan with the Wide-band scanner first, then a scan from orbit with the Narrow-Band, then landed with the surface sampler?  Or does the narrow band now work as a surface sampler too?  What will give me the ability to see a high-res map of resources from orbit, as well as being able to drive along and see a readout of the concentrations?  As it currently seams, when I drive along with both the Narrow-Band Scanner and the stock Surface Scanner on a rover, I can run an analysis per biome but even when I drive along it doesn't seem like the concentrations vary at all.

Thank you for the help, I've been trying to wrap my head around this for a bit and want to make sure I have a clear understanding.

From my understanding: You never *need* to use the Wide-band scanner in SCANsat.  However, it's earlier in the tech tree, and can give a comprehensive full-planet scan faster, so it's often a good idea to use it.  Also, there's the question of how much resolution you actually need - the wide-band scanner gives a fairly coarse resolution, but it's often enough - especially if you do things like send a rover out to scout the exact spot you want.

The Narrow-Band only does orbital scanning, and can be done without the wide-band: It will give you a much more fine-grained resolution, once you've done your ground proofing.  Without ground proofing you won't have exact values available.

A more succinct summary:

• You need either the Wide-Band or the Narrow-Band for the orbital scan.
• You need to ground proof for exact values in a biome.
• You need the Narrow-Band for a high-resolution orbital scan.

I note that #1 on that appears to be contradicted by the Wiki, but it's how things have behaved in my experience - though I'm still on 1.1.3, so this could have changed.

[nascarlaser1]

What's the difference between what scansat can do, and what the new kerbnet can do?

[DMagic]

@tsaven Basically what @DStaal said. Though it might be better to say that the wide-band (M700 scanner, or "fuzzy resources" in internal SCANsat parlance) scan is never a prerequisite for any other resource scan. There may be some contract (SCANsat includes contracts that ask for both M700 and narrow band ore scans) or other mod reasons for why you might need a completed stock resource scan. For that you can activate the Stock Scan Threshold option, this only counts the M700 scanner.

There is currently a bit of a problem when you want to get the most accurate resource data with the Requires Narrow Band Scanner option turned on. In the past MKS had a separate part for all of its resources and included the stock resource scan module (that shows the resource concentration in the part's right click menu). Now MKS uses the stock Narrow Band Scanner and KerbNet for its resource info and doesn't include separate resource scan part modules. SCANsat relied on those part modules to detect when a Narrow Band scanner for a specific resource was in orbit. So you'll probably need to disable that option until I can fix that.

@nascarlaser1 KerbNet is basically an extension and improvement on the old Narrow Band scanner map; there are two major additions over that old system: biome maps and the waypoint generator. The terrain map is low quality and won't give the most accurate data. KerbNet's biggest limitations are that it is locked to position of your current vessel, it has no memory, and it is very small.

SCANsat generates persistent maps, it gives fully accurate data, and it provides several methods to display the maps and other data.

[TranquilTempest]

I'm using the contracts that come with SCANSat with contract configurator. Is there a working way to increase the number of simultaneously offered contracts? 

I tried increasing the maxSimultaneous value in ContractPackScanSatOfficial.cfg, and it will constantly delete offered contracts to make room for new ones. It won't wait for the acceptance deadline before deleting the offered contract.

[Cmaj6]

On 12/4/2016 at 11:26 PM, DMagic said:

@tsaven
@DStaal

 

@nascarlaser1 KerbNet is basically an extension and improvement on the old Narrow Band scanner map; there are two major additions over that old system: biome maps and the waypoint generator. The terrain map is low quality and won't give the most accurate data. KerbNet's biggest limitations are that it is locked to position of your current vessel, it has no memory, and it is very small.

SCANsat generates persistent maps, it gives fully accurate data, and it provides several methods to display the maps and other data.

First of all, I've used Scansat in the past and i absolutely loved it (especially in combination with Remotetech), but it was a long time ago and now KSP provides Kerbnet, i have some questions:

1. Do I have to take precaution when installing SCANsat for KSP 1.2? (for example, editing some configuration files, not having any vessels active that contain Kerbnet scanning parts (stock parts), etc. etc.)

2. Do the stock scanning parts used for Kerbnet also work in SCANsat? (I haven't even used Kerbnet scanning yet, so i'm not sure if this question is even possible :p)

3. Assuming question 2 holds and the answer is yes, if I remove SCANsat later (assuming only stock parts are used on my vessels), will kerbnet automatically work again without any configuration edits? (for example, when removing RemoteTech, one has to manually edit some configuration setting to make Commnet work again. Is this also the case with SCANsat / Kerbnet?)

3. Does SCANSat come with nonstock parts? If yes, should i remove SCANsat in the future, will the vessels that contain the non-stock scansat parts be deleted automatically by the game?

 

Maybe add above questions in the first post?

 

Much thanks in advance

[Merkov]

3 hours ago, Cmaj6 said:

First of all, I've used Scansat in the past and i absolutely loved it (especially in combination with Remotetech), but it was a long time ago and now KSP provides Kerbnet, i have some questions:

1. Do I have to take precaution when installing SCANsat for KSP 1.2? (for example, editing some configuration files, not having any vessels active that contain Kerbnet scanning parts (stock parts), etc. etc.)

2. Do the stock scanning parts used for Kerbnet also work in SCANsat? (I haven't even used Kerbnet scanning yet, so i'm not sure if this question is even possible :p)

3. Assuming question 2 holds and the answer is yes, if I remove SCANsat later (assuming only stock parts are used on my vessels), will kerbnet automatically work again without any configuration edits? (for example, when removing RemoteTech, one has to manually edit some configuration setting to make Commnet work again. Is this also the case with SCANsat / Kerbnet?)

3. Does SCANSat come with nonstock parts? If yes, should i remove SCANsat in the future, will the vessels that contain the non-stock scansat parts be deleted automatically by the game?

 

Maybe add above questions in the first post?

 

Much thanks in advance

Kerbnet and ScanSat work independently of each other. 

1. You do not need to edit any configs or anything to make ScanSat work for KSP 1.2. 

2. Most of the stock KerbNet parts are things like probe cores, which ScanSat does not have anything to do with. Regardless, KerbNet and ScanSat both work when ScanSat is installed, and removing ScanSat later does not affect KerbNet. 

3. ScanSat comes with four (I think?) non-stock parts. These are the low resolution RADAR scanner, the Multispectral (Biome) scanner, the Been There, Done That scanner, and the high resolution SAR scanner. If you remove these parts from the game while craft still use them, KSP will not be able to load them and will remove the offending craft. There used to be a program that would edit save files to remove parts from vessels, but I don't know if it works with KSP 1.2.1. 

Remember that KerbNet and ScanSat are fundamentally different. ScanSat creates persistent maps of celestial bodies which can be saved, exported, viewed later, etc. KerbNet let's you view the terrain directly beneath your vessel at the time you are using it. Nothing is saved, so you can't refer to it in the future. Neither of these systems touch each other at all.

Hope this helps!

Edited December 6, 2016 by Merkov
Typos from writing post on a phone.

[DMagic]

What @Merkov said.

I would add that there are MM configs out there that allow for stock parts to be used as SCANsat scanners. I believe there is a mod for it on Space Dock or maybe Curse.

Also, the first post is a bit of a mess because the embedded galleries are broken. I need to update it with more basic info and information about KerbNet.

[Cmaj6]

2 hours ago, Merkov said:

...

 

1 hour ago, DMagic said:

...@Merkov

 

Thank you both for your quick and helpful replies! I will install SCANsat immediately! This is such a wonderful and mature community. Am proud to be a part of it!