[1.12.X] Tantares - Stockalike Soyuz and MIR [16.1][28.05.2024][{Proton Revamp]

[davidy12]

2 hours ago, curtquarquesso said:

Yes. I'll try to as soon as I can.

I'm in the middle of cramming for an exam, so I'll get it to you sometime tomorrow.

Gemini Revamp:

There was talk of a Gemini revamp, so I solved the age-old Gemini dilemma, and it only requires one "off-size"

 

The divisions are these:

• Gemini_Port_A
  • 0.625m
• Gemini_Parachute_A
  • 0.625m
• Gemini_RCS_A
  • 0.625m
• Gemini_Crew_A
  • 0.625m x 1.5m
• Gemini_Engine_A
  • 1.5m x 1.875m

Not pictured are parts for Big G, MOL, and an alternate version of the service module split into two sections, a retro-propulsion module, and a life-support and experiment module. So, they could be done as one piece, or as two. Don't think too many people care.
The Big G crew compartment is 1.875m x 2.5m, the Big G service module is 2.5m x 3.75m, and the MOL crew compartment is a straight 1.875m compartment.

Dealing with conical frustums in Wings is maddening. I wish you could lock your slope angle, and then slide vertices along it, but alas, no. Trigonometry is required. I got lucky by just making loop cuts, and getting the correct loop diameter at the related height. Tricky stuff.

There are supporting orthographic drawings included in the Wings3D file. Should be uploaded to the drive now. As long as you don't change the overall dimensions, everything is cut up and scaled to avoid off-sizes, to make the slant-heights, and capsule slops, and part proportions as accurate as possible. 

@curtquarquesso: Okay, first of all: Thanks SO MUCH for doing (some) of tweak scale again. Also, I feel you brother, first two exams coming up.

 

Also, GEMINI: I can FINALLY use BDB's AWESOME Titan II!!!!!

[CobaltWolf]

2 hours ago, curtquarquesso said:

3.125m wouldn't be bad for Ariane, but 3.0m would be perfect. I'd be happy with either really. I believe my TweakScale config allows for 3.0, and could easily be made to scale to 3.125m Play around with it and experiment.

Gemini Revamp:

There was talk of a Gemini revamp, so I solved the age-old Gemini dilemma, and it only requires one "off-size"

The divisions are these:

• Gemini_Port_A
  • 0.625m
• Gemini_Parachute_A
  • 0.625m
• Gemini_RCS_A
  • 0.625m
• Gemini_Crew_A
  • 0.625m x 1.5m
• Gemini_Engine_A
  • 1.5m x 1.875m

Not pictured are parts for Big G, MOL, and an alternate version of the service module split into two sections, a retro-propulsion module, and a life-support and experiment module. So, they could be done as one piece, or as two. Don't think too many people care.
The Big G crew compartment is 1.875m x 2.5m, the Big G service module is 2.5m x 3.75m, and the MOL crew compartment is a straight 1.875m compartment.

Dealing with conical frustums in Wings is maddening. I wish you could lock your slope angle, and then slide vertices along it, but alas, no. Trigonometry is required. I got lucky by just making loop cuts, and getting the correct loop diameter at the related height. Tricky stuff.

There are supporting orthographic drawings included in the Wings3D file. Should be uploaded to the drive now. As long as you don't change the overall dimensions, everything is cut up and scaled to avoid off-sizes, to make the slant-heights, and capsule slops, and part proportions as accurate as possible. 

Good to know that our Gemini sizing plans work then!

On the topic of an intermediate size for large parts, I believe 3.125 has to be used for something or other in BDB. I remember seeing that I'd have to use it when I was running some numbers a couple weeks back. So you wouldn't bee alone if you chose to use it.

EDIT: @spacecookie ugh thanks for reminding me how awful the texture on the Mariner 4 antenna is. It looks like a pair of striped stockings dangling from the ship... I definitely need to push that redux up in my priorities.

Edited February 8, 2016 by CobaltWolf

[Beale]

3 hours ago, curtquarquesso said:

Gemini Revamp:

There was talk of a Gemini revamp, so I solved the age-old Gemini dilemma, and it only requires one "off-size.

The divisions are these:

• Gemini_Port_A
  • 0.625m
• Gemini_Parachute_A
  • 0.625m
• Gemini_RCS_A
  • 0.625m
• Gemini_Crew_A
  • 0.625m x 1.5m
• Gemini_Engine_A
  • 1.5m x 1.875m

Not pictured are parts for Big G, MOL, and an alternate version of the service module split into two sections, a retro-propulsion module, and a life-support and experiment module. So, they could be done as one piece, or as two. Don't think too many people care.
The Big G crew compartment is 1.875m x 2.5m, the Big G service module is 2.5m x 3.75m, and the MOL crew compartment is a straight 1.875m compartment.

Dealing with conical frustums in Wings is maddening. I wish you could lock your slope angle, and then slide vertices along it, but alas, no. Trigonometry is required. I got lucky by just making loop cuts, and getting the correct loop diameter at the related height. Tricky stuff.

There are supporting orthographic drawings included in the Wings3D file. Should be uploaded to the drive now. As long as you don't change the overall dimensions, everything is cut up and scaled to avoid off-sizes, to make the slant-heights, and capsule slops, and part proportions as accurate as possible. 

Great example! Many thanks!  

Big-G should be done "properly", the current implementation I am not happy with (It does not represent the real design very well at all).

2 hours ago, OTmikhail said:

@Beale As far as Proton is concerned I've felt like it was just right the way it is. But if you want to change the size that is cool too. I would recommend 3.0m diameter. But one thing that your Proton is missing is a Briz-M upper stage. I actually use the other Proton mod just for their Briz-M and thank you @InsaneDruid for your work on that Briz-M it's my most used rocket stage now. Although I replace the main engine every time

Definitely possible  

 

Proton
A sharp sting that I am still not a very good 3D modeller! Very tricky shape.

 

Edited February 8, 2016 by Beale

[VenomousRequiem]

Here, I gathered some reference for you for the various different stages!

~Long post warning~

Third stage engine.

Second stage engine.

First stage engine. Don't forget the spoilers...

I had no idea they were assembled like that... the main engines are pretty much just boosters.

The third stage engine again, but without the... fabric... shroud... thing...

 

And probably the most notable part of the Proton rocket:

The failure rate!

[InsaneDruid]

@BealeI have a "ton" of references along with sizes down to the mm. If you want, i can also sent you a mesh or two. Just say yay or nay and I'll upload it.

 

PS: how do I get the name in a nice tag like everyone else gets it?

Edited February 8, 2016 by InsaneDruid

[legoclone09]

Just now, InsaneDruid said:

PS: how do I get the name in a nice tag like everyone else gets it?

You click on the person's name in the drop-down, then it works.

[Beale]

1 hour ago, hraban said:

Hi Beale,

there is a Camera Focus error caused by the missing light animation in Alnair OB-L47 orbital block.

 

Whoops! Good find, I will fix  

2 hours ago, spacecookie said:

I made a Spektr spacecraft out of new Alnair pieces and diverse bluedogDB / stock parts to keep a stockalike appearance while being detailed .

I might build a new kerbomir

Wow! Once again you have made something really quite special!  

28 minutes ago, VenomousRequiem said:

Here, I gathered some reference for you for the various different stages!

~Long post warning~

Third stage engine.

Second stage engine.

First stage engine. Don't forget the spoilers...

I had no idea they were assembled like that... the main engines are pretty much just boosters.

The third stage engine again, but without the... fabric... shroud... thing...

And probably the most notable part of the Proton rocket:

The failure rate!

Good resolution images! Many thanks! 

23 minutes ago, InsaneDruid said:

@Beale I have a "ton" of references along with sizes down to the mm. If you want, i can also sent you a mesh or two. Just say yay or nay and I'll upload it.

 

PS: how do I get the name in a nice tag like everyone else gets it?

That would be very helpful!  

I like your models very much.

[curtquarquesso]

2 hours ago, hraban said:

The Proton match with 1.875m or 2.0m good to Soyuz but then all Tantares Station- and TKS-Parts was to big.

BTW: You can use the Briz-M (simple model named as ZIRP-M) and Briz-KM (named as ZIRP-KM) with my Tantares addon mod CONTARES.

If you assume that the Tantares Soyuz capsule is 1.25m in KSP, then the Proton scales roughly to 2.5m. All the Salyut/Vega parts are 2.5m, so Proton has to be 2.5m as well. 

1 hour ago, VenomousRequiem said:

When you make the new Gemini, will you please make the rendezvous engines and the retro pack separate? Also more realistic RCS set up?

I've provided Beale with two setups for that section. One all one part like we currently have, and another that's divided properly. The divided one yields a messy intermediate size that's useless for much else. It's up to Beale on how he wants to do it. 

31 minutes ago, Beale said:

Great example! Many thanks!  
Big-G should be done "properly", the current implementation I am not happy with (It does not represent the real design very well at all).
Definitely possible  

Proton
A sharp sting that I am still not a very good 3D modeller! Very tricky shape.

Big G:

• The scaling mockups I provided should help you at least plan for a future Big G. I'm currently working on a mockup for the proposed Gemini lunar configuration. Some of those updates should be reflected in the file I shared with you. 

Proton:

• Make sure you get another source image or two beside andegraf. A few of the models have been slightly hit or miss. Looks ok to me though.

[Beale]

15 minutes ago, curtquarquesso said:

Make sure you get another source image or two beside andegraf. A few of the models have been slightly hit or miss. Looks ok to me though.

Hmmm, looks like Andegraf is wrong. 3/4 schematics disagree with it.

[InsaneDruid]

Sent you a link to all my sources and my complete Proton-M blendfile.

Looking forward to any new update of tantares, as it's my number one mod for ksp.

[Beale]

14 minutes ago, InsaneDruid said:

Sent you a link to all my sources and my complete Proton-M blendfile.

Looking forward to any new update of tantares, as it's my number one mod for ksp.

Amazing!

Great many thanks!  

Edit: InsaneDruid's orthographics agree with Andegraf!

Save me from this madness!

Edit: Okay, I think I understand, Proton-M is slightly shorter first stage than Proton-K?

Edited February 8, 2016 by Beale

[curtquarquesso]

11 minutes ago, Beale said:

Hmmm, looks like Andegraf is wrong. 3/4 schematics disagree with it.

Glad to be of service.

[InsaneDruid]

The outrigger Tanks are 12150mm long cylindrical shapes with a 4000mm tapered section on top. Diameter of the outriggers is 1600mm. This shoudl be the same for K and M to my knowledge.

I modelled everything i could find based on measurements, not on images. ( i usually start with a set of plane meshes stacked on the different height locations, then I add the cylinders etc etc.

[Beale]

24 minutes ago, InsaneDruid said:

The outrigger Tanks are 12150mm long cylindrical shapes with a 4000mm tapered section on top. Diameter of the outriggers is 1600mm. This shoudl be the same for K and M to my knowledge.

I modelled everything i could find based on measurements, not on images. ( i usually start with a set of plane meshes stacked on the different height locations, then I add the cylinders etc etc.

That is the smart way to do things, in the past I have always gone by rough image-matching.

From more scaling, and your files, the current model I have matches roughly the size of your Proton and I think that will be fine going forward  Many thanks! 

Also: as you have modeled the Proton with measurements and your Proton matches the Andegraf image, that is a positive sign for Andegraf accuracy on sizing (Which is good because I think it's a really good resource).

 

Edited February 8, 2016 by Beale

[legoclone09]

@Beale Can you make an inline 0.9375, 1.25, 1.875, and 2.5m probe core for stations? I love building them but would love probe cores that match with the style of Tantares parts. I can make a model for them if you would like.

[Killrog]

On 8/9/2015 at 1:14 PM, Beale said:

Check the config of the LK crew cabin for the scaling fix. I will apply it myself to more parts when I can (I know it has been this way for a while, sorry).

Check the TK-DC06B as well.

Edited February 9, 2016 by Killrog
added image

[curtquarquesso]

5 hours ago, Killrog said:

Check the TK-DC06B as well.

There was a recent update. I'm on mobile right now, so I can't check. In the config for the part, could you tell me what the values are for "scale" and "rescaleFactor" ?

Also, has the part been TweakScaled in anyway? 

Do you know if it is the root part of the vessel?

Also, if you're going to take pictures take them in sunlight. I can barely make out what's going on. 

Edited February 9, 2016 by curtquarquesso

[Beale]

13 hours ago, legoclone09 said:

@Beale Can you make an inline 0.9375, 1.25, 1.875, and 2.5m probe core for stations? I love building them but would love probe cores that match with the style of Tantares parts. I can make a model for them if you would like.

Sure thing! I think this is sorely needed for a long time.

9 hours ago, Killrog said:

Check the TK-DC06B as well.

You are using an out-of-date version of Tantares  Fix that! 

Proton Detail

Some really pleasant small changes to the Proton underbelly. It's a little more detailed than my average model, coming into a shocking (shocking) 1400 Polygons.

I currently have a heavy concussion because to poor life choices, but work continues  

 

Edited February 9, 2016 by Beale

[DGatsby]

1 hour ago, Beale said:

Proton Detail

Some really pleasant small changes to the Proton underbelly. It's a little more detailed than my average model, coming into a shocking (shocking) 1400 Polygons.

I currently have a heavy concussion because to poor life choices, but work continues  

 

Great looking Proton! Sorry to hear about the concussion; be safe now!

[Thraken]

1 hour ago, Beale said:

I currently have a heavy concussion because to poor life choices, but work continues  

 

Bang your loaf on the way into the oven?

Stay safe Beale, and take care of yourself!

[CobaltWolf]

@Beale any chance you can have those diagonal fairings on the engines? That's my favorite part of the Proton design.

[VenomousRequiem]

3 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

@Beale any chance you can have those diagonal fairings on the engines? That's my favorite part of the Proton design.

You mean the little fairing a that taper inwards? I was stressing that in my rant the other day too.. 

[Beale]

1 hour ago, DGatsby said:

Great looking Proton! Sorry to hear about the concussion; be safe now!

58 minutes ago, Thraken said:

Bang your loaf on the way into the oven?

Stay safe Beale, and take care of yourself!

I deserve no sympathy, a combination of unusually tall and low-ceiling supports I should be aware of!  

Thanks on Proton!

 

17 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

@Beale any chance you can have those diagonal fairings on the engines? That's my favorite part of the Proton design.

12 minutes ago, VenomousRequiem said:

You mean the little fairing a that taper inwards? I was stressing that in my rant the other day too.. 

Yes they are planned  

[CobaltWolf]

5 minutes ago, Beale said:

I deserve no sympathy, a combination of unusually tall and low-ceiling supports I should be aware of!  

Thanks on Proton!

 

Yes they are planned  

Aight, back to UV unwrapping Juno then.

[InsaneDruid]

Will the DCM-NXL (Alnair-Crew B) aka the TKS double-cone be flipped again? And will there be an adapter to mate it to the proton (like my "TKS Fairing Extender")?