[1.1.3] Surface Experiment Pack - EVA science for KIS/KAS (v1.4.2 6/30/2016) *Now with less explosions*

[Freshmeat]

It seems the units are very unhappy with sloping ground. A revert had me trying to set up the same experiments from the same craft, but this time at an 10° incline. I am still after an hour in the process of reloading and trying again, watching the fireworks. I try to raise the units before I set them down, it helps a bit.

[CobaltWolf]

On 8/16/2016 at 4:25 PM, Fr8monkey said:

I'm still having trouble attaching the units to the ground.  No matter the tool I use, minutes after attaching, they jump around the place.

On 8/18/2016 at 4:12 PM, Cdw2468 said:

I'm also having similar issues, and it doesn't register the fact that they are connected to the Central station because of this I assume. I've wasted so much of my space programs money just to leave broken experiments on the mun 

6 minutes ago, Freshmeat said:

It seems the units are very unhappy with sloping ground. A revert had me trying to set up the same experiments from the same craft, but this time at an 10° incline. I am still after an hour in the process of reloading and trying again, watching the fireworks. I try to raise the units before I set them down, it helps a bit.

I need more detailed information fellas - the less time I have to spend banging my head against the wall the better. What experiments? Try and figure out which ones are more prone to breaking - if the issues stem from the distance of the attach nodes to the colliders, then I need to know what spacing makes everything work best. Additionally, you could try and reduce the staticAttachForce in the part cfgs to something lower - maybe 100 or so. 10 was resulting in the attachments breaking, because they were too weak. They are currently set to 2000, and could be breaking because too much force is being added to the system.

Additionally, uploading copies of your KSP.log, mod lists, more info on what version of SEP and what KSP version you're running, etc would be helpful. Better yet - a volunteer to definitively solve this issue, even if it means I have to make changes in Unity.

[Fr8monkey]

The last time I had the problem, I attached the battery pack (with 6 plugs) to the flat surface with the power drill.  Went on to put down other experiments and 30 seconds later it started oscillating, hopping side to side. It then started doing it more and more and started skipping across the surface... reminded me of the Gingerbread man saying "Catch me if you can...".  Sat there watching it run off until it got about 1.5 K away and exploded.

I assume it was the drill that caused it; because I used the wrench on other instances and it worked perfectly...

 

The instructions say what to do with the screwdriver (for plugs), but if I recall correctly, there is no exacting instructions on what to do with the wrench and power drill.

Edited August 28, 2016 by Fr8monkey

[Fredde104]

Since there is no instructions on how o install, someone will have to explain that for me. Ive tried to install the latest version multiple times, in the sme way as I install every other mod, but still no parts from SEP shows up. Its just like its not intalled at all. What am I doing wrong?

[goldenpsp]

26 minutes ago, Fredde104 said:

Since there is no instructions on how o install, someone will have to explain that for me. Ive tried to install the latest version multiple times, in the sme way as I install every other mod, but still no parts from SEP shows up. Its just like its not intalled at all. What am I doing wrong?

Picture of your gamedata folder?

Edited August 29, 2016 by goldenpsp

[Fredde104]

3 minutes ago, goldenpsp said:

Picture of your gamedata folder?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/y1n951g2fzpt9gk/Skärmklipp 2016-08-29 17.07.01.png?dl=0

[linuxgurugamer]

29 minutes ago, Fredde104 said:

Since there is no instructions on how o install, someone will have to explain that for me. Ive tried to install the latest version multiple times, in the sme way as I install every other mod, but still no parts from SEP shows up. Its just like its not intalled at all. What am I doing wrong?

How are you installing it?

Are you in career mode?  If so, where are you in career?

[Fredde104]

Just now, linuxgurugamer said:

How are you installing it?

Are you in career mode?  If so, where are you in career?

Moving the contents of the 'gamedata' folder of the download to the folder in the install

 

nope, ive tried it in all gamemodes and it doesnt show in either

[linuxgurugamer]

2 minutes ago, Fredde104 said:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/y1n951g2fzpt9gk/Skärmklipp 2016-08-29 17.07.01.png?dl=0

i don't see the SurfaceExperimentPack directory, where is it?

[Fredde104]

1 minute ago, linuxgurugamer said:

i don't see the SurfaceExperimentPack directory, where is it?

'SEP_v1.4.2'

edit: between US probes and SmokeScreen

Edited August 29, 2016 by Fredde104

[goldenpsp]

2 minutes ago, Fredde104 said:

'SEP_v1.4.2'

edit: between US probes and SmokeScreen

I'm gonna guess from looking at the ZIP file that you want to grab the two folders under SEP_v1.4.2 and put them in your gamedata folder.

[Fredde104]

6 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

i don't see the SurfaceExperimentPack directory, where is it?

 

2 minutes ago, goldenpsp said:

I'm gonna guess from looking at the ZIP file that you want to grab the two folders under SEP_v1.4.2 and put them in your gamedata folder.

I extracted those files, now all the parts show up. time to test them!

[linuxgurugamer]

Nope, wrong.

Look inside the SEP_v1.4.2 directory, you should see two directories:

• DMagicScienceAnimate
• SurfaceExperimentPackage

Put BOTH of those in the GameData directory, NOT in the SEP_.... dir.  Delete the SEP_v1.4.2 directory

[Fredde104]

1 minute ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Nope, wrong.

Look inside the SEP_v1.4.2 directory, you should see two directories:

• DMagicScienceAnimate
• SurfaceExperimentPackage

Put BOTH of those in the GameData directory, NOT in the SEP_.... dir.  Delete the SEP_v1.4.2 directory

 

1 minute ago, Fredde104 said:

 

I extracted those files, now all the parts show up. time to test them!

 

[DMagic]

If anyone is interested they can try out the new version of SEP. Get it from DropBox.

It significantly changes how experiments are carried out. This doesn't have any fixes for the exploding parts. Don't expect this version to be completely stable, and don't expect future versions to be compatible; this is only for testing purposes and feedback.

 

To use it, setup the SEP instruments as usual with an engineer. Then use a scientist to calibrate and activate each instrument. Data will be gathered over time and can be periodically collected from the instrument for returning or for transmission. Once the data is collected from the instrument it behaves the same as any other KSP science (for moving between science containers, transmission, recovery, and science labs). Information about the calibration level, completion level, time to completion, and status of the instrument can be seen when right-clicking on the part, either from an EVA Kerbal or when viewing the SEP vessel itself.

 

The Central Station also contains controls for starting or stopping all connected experiments and for monitoring their status (experiments can be paused and re-started without losing their progress as long as they aren't moved or completely shut down).

 

Each instrument in the new system has a complexity level and an experiment length factor. Both can be viewed in the VAB/SPH info screen (these values may be a bit unbalanced now, but can be easily adjusted for future versions).

The complexity level represents the level of scientist required to get the max amount of science out of an instrument. A lower level scientist will still be able to calibrate the instrument, it will just take longer to generate science and you won't be able to collect all of the available science. Experiments can be re-calibrated by a higher level scientist while still running, or can be run again to collect the full amount of science.

The experiment length represents the amount of Kerbal days (6 hours) required to get the max science when the instrument is calibrated to 100%. If a lower level scientist is used it will take longer, and if a scientist with a level above the complexity level of the instrument is used it will generate science faster.

An important factor to note is that the experiments don't continuously generate data like the science lab. Each experiment can generate three discrete levels of science data (with flavor text for each level forthcoming), based on the level of scientist that calibrated the instrument and its complexity (and how long it has been running). The data for the lowest level of the experiment is worth half of the max amount, and the next is worth 75%, the third is 100%. Data can be collected and turned in even while it is still running, so if the experiment is at 60% completion you can collect and recover the data for the lowest level and get the science points. Then when it reaches 75% completion it will generate the next set of data, the science value of which will be adjusted accordingly.

 

All of the processing works in the background for unloaded vessels, you just need to setup the experiments and get them running. Data can be automatically transmitted, even when the vessel isn't loaded as soon as it is generated (an "upgrade" for the SEP Central Station needs to be unlocked in the tech tree for this feature), otherwise Kerbals can collect or transmit the data directly from the instrument or from the central station.

 

The full release version should have a KSPedia entry to better explain how everything works along with a simple UI that makes managing all of the experiments and monitoring unloaded vessels much simpler, though everything will always work using only EVA Kerbals if desired.

The UI isn't quite ready yet, but so far it integrates nicely into the existing version and is constructed entirely from the lightweight Unity 4.6 UI system.

[Bombaatu]

Dunno if this is a bug or a "feature" (aka a bug with seniority), but if the Surface Experiment Package is set up on a Rover (say, the Buffalo flatbed) and connected by an Engineer, and a Scientist is on board the vehicle, then the surface experiments can be run without the Scientist going on EVA. 

Side note: these experiments can be run if attached to a rover....

[Sharpy]

Can other resources than power be transferred over these connections?

Because science aside, this mod really seems like what I need for my huge Minmus mine, to cross-connect various surface modules without creating rigid mechanical connections like when you link two KAS ports, and without using excessive number of winches, where once the connection is set up, the winch is never used again.

[Freshmeat]

On 30/8/2016 at 2:07 AM, DMagic said:

If anyone is interested they can try out the new version of SEP. Get it from DropBox.

It significantly changes how experiments are carried out. This doesn't have any fixes for the exploding parts. Don't expect this version to be completely stable, and don't expect future versions to be compatible; this is only for testing purposes and feedback.

 

This looks extremely promising, and I will definitely test it once I get around to playing again. Just a question: Once the science is generated, is it necessary to have a kerbonaut to gather it, or can you do it by focusing the experiment? It would make more sense that the full science amount could be transmitted for long experiment runs, and I do not think anyone is going to land at the same site twice.

A suggestion for long time development: What about having a mix of immediately executable and long term running experiments? For example, the Active Seismic Experiment was executed by the astronauts firing off charges and recording the shock waves, while the Laser Ranging Retroreflector still is running. This would translate to an experiment with immediate gains (like the released version) and an experiment giving off data after some time. This would give the user both immediate and long term rewards. The user would not have to be patient to get anything, and the delayed rewards will give a long term reinforcement. (Yes, I happened to stumble on a game design article during this mornings procrastinations).

Another suggestion: The KSP lander modules are designed for either one or two Kerbonauts. This means that SEP is not a possibility before probe cores are researched. I really do not like the idea of remote or automated landing of crew for RP reasons, and have given some thought to a workaround: While the scientist and engineer is necessary for full rewards, another Kerbonaut can substitute at something like half efficiency, cummulative. This would mean that even the first Mun landing could carry a SEP package, but Jeb would be a klutz in both setting up and calibrating the experiments for a vastly reduced reward. Later, he could bring along either Bill or Bob for better experiments, and once proper probe cores are researched, full science output would be gained by Bill and Bob alone.

[Sharpy]

Okay, I couldn't find the patience to wait for an answer.

Complete ISRU refinery on five flatbed trucks (plus sixth for the engineer.) All connections through plugs from the mod.

[DMagic]

@Sharpy As far as I know the cable included here are just standard KAS struts. When connected the two vessels combine together and any standard resource transfer is allowed.

@Freshmeat Instantaneous experiments are actually supported already with the current preview version, it's just that none of the instruments are set to use it, all it requires is a few field changes in the .cfg file. They would otherwise work the same way, with different calibration and experiment levels, you just wouldn't have to wait.

Automatic transmission is also supported, currently it is setup as an upgrade option for the SEP Central Station. By purchasing a dummy Central Station part in the tech tree all existing stations are upgraded to allow for automatic transmission, this occurs as soon as any data is ready and works in the background. It is also something that can be disabled in any part's .cfg file.

Allowing for non-scientists to calibrate experiments with a penalty is a good idea and should be simple to implement.

[CobaltWolf]

1 hour ago, DMagic said:

Allowing for non-scientists to calibrate experiments with a penalty is a good idea and should be simple to implement.

Makes sense, too - the Apollo landings were hampered by the fact that they didn't have dedicated scientists! They had pilots who were hastily trained in - drumroll - taking surface samples, and deploying the ALSEP!

[Kertech]

Hey @AlbertKermin, I just had a suggestion though no idea how it would work in reality. So IRL to accurately measure gradients and analyse a site you use a laser reflector and multiple points, I was thinking a basic stick you put into the ground somewhere and then a laser targeted wired to the main hub would be an effective experiment in the same vein as this pack. Like the stuff below 

[CobaltWolf]

3 hours ago, Kertech said:

Hey @AlbertKermin, I just had a suggestion though no idea how it would work in reality. So IRL to accurately measure gradients and analyse a site you use a laser reflector and multiple points, I was thinking a basic stick you put into the ground somewhere and then a laser targeted wired to the main hub would be an effective experiment in the same vein as this pack. Like the stuff below 

You mean surveying tools? I can look into it. I still have some parts I need to get in game once I come back to this mod - I've partially been waiting (with baited breath) to see how awesome DMagic's new system turns out.

[subyng]

On 8/18/2016 at 4:12 PM, Cdw2468 said:

I'm also having similar issues, and it doesn't register the fact that they are connected to the Central station because of this I assume. I've wasted so much of my space programs money just to leave broken experiments on the mun 

Thirding this. Experiments won't attach to the ground using the attach function and the KAS screwdriver. 

[DMagic]

I looked into the parts and found a few with attach nodes that didn't quite line up with their collider, the ion detector and gravity, I think. I fixed them, but it wasn't until I moved the nodes much further out from the collider that they would reliably not explode on a slope. So I'm not really sure what has to be done to fix it.