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[24.2] Karbonite Ongoing Dev and Discussion

RoverDude

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RoverDude

RoverDude

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NOW IN PUBLIC RELEASE! NEW THREAD HERE

vKHghHe.png

I submit for your perusal Karbonite (KaO3). A newly discovered mineral that has hydrocarbon-like properties and is perfect for processing into a fuel. It's easily mined from the surface, and can be found in liquid or gaseous forms on certain planets (Jool cloud harvesters anyone?)

Karbonite's goal is to provide a permissively licensed, community driven ISRU (in situ resource utilization) framework for KSP.

Karbonite is based on (and in some cases, extends) the Open Resource System (already familiar to folks who use KSP-I, and MKS/OKS) and combines it with new code, some amazing community driven parts, and a license that encourages sharing and extension.

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How does this differ from Kethane?

  • Karbonite is based on the Open Resource System from FractalUK and used in KSP-I. Kethane uses it's own resource engine.
  • Karbonite is concentration based, Kethane has discreet deposits.
  • Karbonite pushes you to select richer deposits for better efficiency. Kethane is all or nothing - either a spot has Kethane or it does not.
  • Karbonite's resources are inexhaustible. Kethane's resource deposits can be depleted.
  • Kethane uses a planetary scanning mechanism, Karbonite shows high-concentration 'hot spots' out of the box without scanning (though prettier SCANSat integration is available).
  • Karbonite has very permissive licensing (Creative Commons 4.0 Share-Alike attribution non-commercial). Kethane's licensing is not as permissive.
  • Kethane deposits are land based only. Karbonite can be found in oceans and atmospheres too (Oceans of rocket fuel on Eve, cloud harvesting on Jool).

Why not just extend Kethane? Will there be Kethane compatibility?

Kethane already has a perfectly good Kethane analogue... it's called Kethane. So if you want to mine a fuel-type resource using the Kethane platform, then by all means, use Kethane. It really is the best Kethane alternative that is derived from Kethane. Karbonite is a community driven alternative with friendlier licensing and different mechanics.

Where can I find Karbonite?

  • On most planetary bodies as a mineable crustal resource (other than Eve and Jool)
  • In the atmospheres of Jool, Laythe, and Kerbin
  • In the oceans of Eve, Laythe, and Kerbin.
  • In space (within the SOI of Eve, Jool, Laythe, and Kerbin)

What parts are available?

  • 2.5m Ventral Drill
  • 2.5m Storage tank
  • 2.5m Converter
  • 2.5m Particle Collector
  • 2.5m Atmospheric Scoop
  • 2.5m Landing Frame
  • 2.5m Karbonite-Fueled engine
  • 1.25m Karbonite-Fueled engine
  • 1.25m Stack Jet Engine
  • Radial Jet Engine
  • Radial Turboprop Engine
  • VTS tank
  • Radial fuel tank
  • 1.25m Distillation Module
  • 2.5m Distillation Module
  • FL-T400 and FL-T800 sized 1.25m tanks
  • Large radial drill

What parts are in the works?

  • Generators
  • Small radial drill
  • 1.25m converter
  • Small radial detector dish

What mods are integrated with Karbonite?

  • MKS/OKS has full Karbonite integration.

Will installing Karbonite break Kethane?

Karbonite will not conflict with Kethane.

How about KSP-I?

Nope. Karbonite does not conflict with any KSP-I resources.

I have a great idea for a feature, can you implement it for me?

Do it yourself ;) No.. seriously. Karbonite has extremely permissive licensing. Not only are people allowed to go crazy with all of the stuff in the mod, they are strongly encouraged to do so. This is, first and foremost, a community project. With all of the craziness and innovation that implies. Tear off the warning stickers and go have fun. And if you need help, crack open the source or ask on the addon development forums.

How can I help?

  • Think of new and crazy models and parts for Karbonite.
  • Help convert mods from Kethane to Karbonite.
  • Make sure your own mods can support Karbonite.
  • Spread the word!

Where can I find a list of extensions to Karbonite?

Right here! If you want your mod on this list, just create your own forum thread (just to keep the Karbonite one clean for core issues only), and send me a PM so I can link it. This will be for release threads only please, and the only rules are that you keep to the same open licensing as Karboninte, and to help people play nice with each other, we all only use resources that are part of the Karbonite Resource Library.

What is this Karbonite Resource Library you speak of?

Since ORS itself is very open, and since I expect there will be a lot of folks adding new resources, etc. we will be requesting that we all work together to standardize on resources, mass, etc. So if you want to use a resource and it already has an analogue (I.e. we do not want ten kinds of 'hydrogen'), please use it. If you want to add a new resource, propose it and if it's not in conflict we will add it to the list. I'm doing some testing and experiments to provide guidelines on how this can all work together, and will have a published list along with guidelines and examples soon after launch (right after I go to disneyland).

Karbonite Compatible Mod List

  • USI Kolonization Systems (MKS/OKS)
  • Hollow Asteroids

What's coming up next for Karbonite?

  • Procedurally generated PNG files for ORS (Thanks Arrowstar!)
  • More parts!

Known issues:

  • I have not tested the density of hotspots with ORS (i.e. how well they look in map view - too many or too few).
  • You do have to deploy your drill to start extraction, but it does not check if it clips the ground.
  • Probably more stuff - no cost balancing, etc. - Suggestions welcome!

The Workshop (Parts and other bits in progress)

Nertea

  • Small radial drill
  • 1.25m converter
  • Small radial detector dish

RobotEngineer

  • Radial air intake

RoverDude

  • Micro (probe sized) air intake

RoverDude's integration List (Stuff I need to make configs for and work into the mod)

  • Caught up! give me more stuff!

Kravity

  • Radial and 2.5m Oceanic Extractors

CREDITS:

Models/Textures:

Nertea, nli2work, Nazari1382, SpeedyB, RoverDude, WaRi

Other Credits:

Alexustas (Our snazzy logo)

Arrowstar (Random PNG generation code)

AshIzat (Generator code)

RoverDude (Other plugin code, Configs, Cat-Herding, and Curation ;))

The KSP Community (For being awesome!)

This has been, and will continue to be, a community effort. You guys and gals are absolutely awesome! There is no way I could have pulled this much off this fast or with such high quality parts without all of the talented folks chipping in. I am humbled by your generosity, and your confidence in letting me curate this project.

DOWNLOAD LINK

You can download the source from GitHub, as well as releases.

You can also find Karbonite in the USI Download area of DropBox.

LICENSE

Karbonite is licensed under a Creative Commons 4.0 Share-Alike Attribution Non-Commercial license.

Change Log


0.1.1 - RELEASE CANDIDATE - 2014.08.03
[LIST]
[*]New version of Module Manager
Corrected SCANSat config to utilize the renamed Karbonite Detection Array
[*]Changed 2.5m converter to produce LiquidFuel and Oxidizer at 0.9/1.1 ratios
[*]Set all tanks to start with zero Karbonite in the VAB/SPH
[*]Changed Karbonite from ALL_VESSEL to STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
[/LIST]

0.1.0 - RELEASE CANDIDATE - 2014.08.03
[LIST]
**DELETE ANY DEV VERSIONS BEFORE INSTALLING THIS**
[*]Updated colliders for the landing frame
[*]Renamed/Reorganized all parts and folders
[*]Tech tree integration - the parts are split accross a few relatively early nodes:  fuelSystems, heavyRocketry, and aerodynamicSystems.  Tanks are spread accross all three.
[*]Updated masses/costs for all modules
[*]Tweaked the relative efficiency of the smaller distillation module
[*]Deprecated stock antenna support
[*]Changed Karbonite to flow like RCS, etc. to reduce fuel line madness with colletors and converters
[/LIST]

0.0.12 - 2014.08.02
[LIST]
[*]New Distillation Modules for Xenon Gas and Monoprop
[*]Engine updates and tweaks
[*]Texture reuse optimizations
[/LIST]

0.0.11 - 2014.08.02
[LIST]
[*]Fixed issue where air intakes were not intaking air...
[*]Decided it would be nice to actually include the DLL this time.
[/LIST]

0.0.10 - 2014.08.02
[LIST]
STUFF GOT MOVED - DELETE YOUR OLD KARBONITE FOLDER!
[*]Config fixes for the jet engines
[*]New radial tank
[*]Small VTS Tank
[*]Smaller atmospheric scoop (can also be a nose intake)
[*]Particle Collector now collects...
[*]Fixed some size/gap issues on some bits
[/LIST]

0.0.9 - 2014.08.02
[LIST]
[*]Better texture reuse
[*]Fixed missing sounds
[*]Fixed issue with stack jet engine starting activated (Yikes!)
[*]Engine balancing
[*]New antenna (less ugly, includes a DOS prompt)
[/LIST]


0.0.8 - 2014.08.01
[LIST]
[*]Switched KarboniteResourceConverter to USI_ResourceConverter
[*]Ram Scoop is now a Particle Collector (works at 100%-110% atmosphere altitudes)
[*]New inline intake now serves as the Atmospheric Collector
[*]Three new engines - Turboprop, Jet, and Radial Jet
[*]Changed Karbonite from an all_vessel to a stack resource
[*]Added 'ScoopedAir' - a new resource to facilitate atmospheric operations on Eve/Jool
[/LIST]

0.0.7 - 2014.07/30
[LIST]
[*]Atmospheric Resources
[*]Oceanic Resources
[*]New Atmospheric PartModule
[*]RAM Scoop
[/LIST]

0.0.5 - 2014.07.29
[LIST]
[*]Initial ChangeLog Entry
[/LIST]

Video on how to use ORS/SCANSat with Karbonite:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMozN4jpxbU&feature=youtu.be

Edited by RoverDude
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Mihara

Mihara

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I support this product and/or service.

No, seriously. I might not be able to contribute much of anything as I have my own hands full, but if there's anything I can do to my own plugins to make them interoperate better with it, I plan to do it.

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RoverDude

RoverDude

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I support this product and/or service.

No, seriously. I might not be able to contribute much of anything as I have my own hands full, but if there's anything I can do to my own plugins to make them interoperate better with it, I plan to do it.

Awesome, I really appreciate it!

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rottielover

rottielover

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Rover Dude, you are nothing short of amazing! After .24 released, of all the mods, I found myself looking for your's first!

I have longed for the day that Kethane would have some competition. It only makes things better for all (look at the Life Support mods history if you don't believe me).

With that, a suggestion if I might...

Get with the SCANsat guys, they have worked out an ORS and Kethane addition (it's in testing), that allows you to map the resources locations on the SCANsat maps. Since they implemented ORS support you may not need to do anything for support to already be there, but never hurts to have "extra's" at release time ;)

I wish you the best of luck with it, and I know that I will def. be one of the first people downloading as soon as you release.

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RoverDude

RoverDude

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very cool! look forward to it. If I come up with anything part wise will send them your way.

Awesome, I'll put up a parts wish list shortly.

Can't wait to see how this pans out. By the way, if you can make a Karboniote-powered jet turbine engine, I would be most pleased! :cool:

Sold.

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Mihara

Mihara

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Speaking of turbines and ideas... Treat this as a list of talking points. Ideas are free, what counts is the implementation. :)

  1. One thing that always annoyed me about Kethane is that there is never a reason to use more than one drill, except for weight balancing purposes. As long as it drills while you timewarp, more or bigger drills do nothing to help you, they just add mass. Which is sort of realistic, but realism for realism's sake is bad game design. Karbonite, if possible, needs a logic that makes all it's parts useful in at least one specific niche.
  2. Another thing that did is the oil-field mechanic -- wherever you drill within a field drains the entire field. Which might also be somewhat realistic, but not at the volumes of resources that actually got extracted, particularly not when you plan to set up a permanent base, which I did a lot of.
  3. The third thing that annoyed me is the scanning mechanic, which... actually would not be an issue if you use SCANsat+ORS to handle that end, since they're free of those problems. :)
  4. Kethane has a jet turbine, which would be just the thing to explore Eve, and even get off Eve, if... if it actually worked on there at any kind of reasonable altitudes. :)
  5. Speaking of engines, why not Karbonite-powered rocket engines? After all, both fuel and oxidizer can be recovered from it under some conditions. They might have their own special niche...
  6. You need to make sure to handle asteroids if at all possible, because natively handling asteroids would make for a lot of interesting gameplay. And yes, it would involve drills working in zero gravity or on parts of the same vessel, i.e. when attached by a claw.
  7. Offshore drilling of Kethane on Laythe was a thing. Painful to do to be sure, but a thing. If you can make it non-painful to do with Karbonite, that would be just perfect.
  8. You can't really stop at resource gathering when walking the path of open solutions. ;)

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RoverDude

RoverDude

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Speaking of turbines and ideas... Treat this as a list of talking points. Ideas are free, what counts is the implementation. :)

  1. One thing that always annoyed me about Kethane is that there is never a reason to use more than one drill, except for weight balancing purposes. As long as it drills while you timewarp, more or bigger drills do nothing to help you, they just add mass. Which is sort of realistic, but realism for realism's sake is bad game design. Karbonite, if possible, needs a logic that makes all it's parts useful in at least one specific niche.
  2. Another thing that did is the oil-field mechanic -- wherever you drill within a field drains the entire field. Which might also be somewhat realistic, but not at the volumes of resources that actually got extracted, particularly not when you plan to set up a permanent base, which I did a lot of.
  3. The third thing that annoyed me is the scanning mechanic, which... actually would not be an issue if you use SCANsat+ORS to handle that end, since they're free of those problems. :)
  4. Kethane has a jet turbine, which would be just the thing to explore Eve, and even get off Eve, if... if it actually worked on there at any kind of reasonable altitudes. :)
  5. Speaking of engines, why not Karbonite-powered rocket engines? After all, both fuel and oxidizer can be recovered from it under some conditions. They might have their own special niche...
  6. You need to make sure to handle asteroids if at all possible, because natively handling asteroids would make for a lot of interesting gameplay. And yes, it would involve drills working in zero gravity or on parts of the same vessel, i.e. when attached by a claw.
  7. Offshore drilling of Kethane on Laythe was a thing. Painful to do to be sure, but a thing. If you can make it non-painful to do with Karbonite, that would be just perfect.
  8. You can't really stop at resource gathering when walking the path of open solutions. ;)

Awesome points :)

1. Drill wise, I think it's more a case of form factor than size - I like the idea of an inline drill that would pop out and extend down, vs. having to deal with balancing heavy radial drills. Given ORS, different sizes (0.625, 1.25, 2.5) would just be a function of scaling consumption and production efficiency, and more a convenience for building your mining rigs. Would also consider drills that can deploy horizontally in case someone wants them to be on a horizontal rover rig. That being said - there could be different ones withbeter oceanic rates (with intake hoses), and atmospheric scoops (for Jool cloud harvesters).

2. Solved by ORS :) The idea that a lone Kerbal could drain a planet dry in a matter of years was a bit odd in Kethane. There will also be atmospheric and oceanic resources on certain planets.

3 - Done :)

4 - I'll look into this. I expect it can be solved with cleverness.

5. GMTA - I had that on my parts notes - a Karbonite-fueled engine series in 0.625/1.25/2.5/3.75 form factors. Comparable ISP to stock, so no benefit other than saving conversion time. On a side note, in general Karbonite will be pretty much the same density/efficiency/etc. as using LFO

6. Since I am also working on Hollow Asteroids (which includes asteroids mining) consider this done ;) Already have all of the core parts working, just finishing up code

7. ORS should solve the extraction problem, and in the case of Laythe, it may be that in it's case all oceans have trace Karbonite concentrations. I'm thinking make each planet have a unique combination of Karbonite in the land, sea, and air to lend variety.

8. Concur :) Best part - all nice and open, so I look forward to lots of folks forking, mashing up, mixing, and sending pull requests :D

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Ringkeeper

Ringkeeper

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More resources = Better!

beware what you wish for! With MKS, Karbonite and Interstellar?(dont use that one) you would have alot of ressources/materials to take care off... and i dont think roverdude is done already :D

But as this is the "dream what you would like to have" phase: parts (not all, only the ones which make sence) grabable without depending on KAS . Like MKS tubes, containers , rover camera etc :)

Edited by Ringkeeper
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RoverDude

RoverDude

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Looks awesome! Will this be compatible with mods that require Kethane as a dependency (e.g. Extraplanetary Launchpas)? Perhaps a converter or MM config?

If the mod requires a resource, then it should not care where it comes from. For example, you can get Ore for EL using MKS (I intentionally used the same resources because playing nice is always better). And since Karbonite is open, if someone wants to extend it, etc... go for it.

Once it is in a workable state I will start reaching out to other modders to encourage integration.

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RoverDude

RoverDude

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I look forward to the release of this mod (and the death of kethane and its terrible licensing)

Could I suggest you tackle a KAS alternative after this?

Suggest all you want ;) No commitments either way - but contrary to belief I do sleep, and have to clear up my mod to-do list. Hopefully someone else from the community can step up and spearhead that effort.

That being said, it is tempting... but it would probably mean taking a vacation just to sit down and code it up.

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diomedea

diomedea

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Looking with much interest to this new project, RoverDude. A resource mod matching with MKS is by itself a very interesting thing. Very useful to have a mod that uses ORS for starting a fuel extraction/conversion system.

And, a mod offering similar functionality as Kethane, but without the implications and some of the bits it has bundled together. Bookmarked.

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Ratata

Ratata

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Why not give it different properties if refined in zero-g environments? something along the lines of "if you refine it in orbit you get more" or much more interesting "if you refine it in orbit you get a fuel with better properties"?

oh and it would be a lot of fun if we could sell it, import style!

Edited by Ratata
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Angelo Kerman

Angelo Kerman

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This sounds like a fun project. I'm especially interested in the asteroid mining idea and integrating with ScanSat. I'm an iOS developer by trade and just starting to work on my own mod, but I'd be happy to contribute to the effort if you'd like an extra hand. Either way, I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with. :)

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