Anyone up for barn raising?

[Alshain]

You correctly point out that I'm speculating here. I noticed in the Imgur album that the stock plane shown in the pictures appears to spawn exactly where it should have done if the runway was present. My thinking is that the stock game will not offer spaceplane parts at tech level zero, but might offer some kind of airfield so that modders can still provide tech level zero plane parts if they want to. Propeller driven planes taking off from an airfield is easy to imagine.

My personal view of spaceplanes in KSP is that Kerbals already knew how to make airplanes, but it took them a while to figure out how to make wings that could withstand re-entry and thus be useful to the space program.

I do hope you are right, but the way Maxmaps said it in Squadcast implied otherwise, also editing the persistence file and copying in a craft from another save would have put it right where the runway was supposed to be also.

[Rithsom]

I can understand why upgrading the VAB, SPH, launchpad, runway, tracking station and R&D would be a good idea. I just don't know exactly how upgrading the astronaut complex or the admin building would work. I'm guessing if the admin building is upgraded more strategies and a higher strength for them would be possible, but I almost never use strategies so it would be kinda pointless to upgrade.

[White Owl]

I don't understand the Junkyard aesthetic too well.

Your average amateur observatory looks something like this:

http://oldsite.astro-sharp.com/images/dome/keith_dome_800.jpg

Or:

http://cdn.cstatic.net/cache/gallery/1073/5098153887_156fb62b5c_o.jpg

No need for "Slumdog Millionaire" corrugated iron, metal plates bolted together.

Just simple wooden structure with a concrete or metal frame. Keep it simple, keep it similar to existing KSC style (Just a little more basic looking).

Building a space centre from materials you could get at a local hardware store seems perfectly "Kerbal" to me IMO, without being too silly ("Lol kerbals, moar boosters xD").

Here is a quick 5 minute mockup of a Tier 1 observatory base, made of wood and concrete.

The textures might be on the verge of the "photo-realistic" side, but hopefully I can get my idea accross.

http://puu.sh/cL8Ka/12bd31bac1.jpg

Thank you for so beautifully illustrating this point. The small, simple observatory is fine. There's just no good reason for it to look like literal junk.

[Master Tao]

Thank you for so beautifully illustrating this point. The small, simple observatory is fine. There's just no good reason for it to look like literal junk.

How would you like to own your very own space center? Jebediah's Junkyard and Pre-owned Space Center Dealership has the launch site for you! Check out our well-loved selection for the best deals on the planet!

So, yes. No good reasons.

I would prefer a cleaner look.

[Guest]

I can understand why upgrading the VAB, SPH, launchpad, runway, tracking station and R&D would be a good idea. I just don't know exactly how upgrading the astronaut complex or the admin building would work. I'm guessing if the admin building is upgraded more strategies and a higher strength for them would be possible, but I almost never use strategies so it would be kinda pointless to upgrade.

Well, upgrading the launchpad/runway might allow heavier vessels to be launched (even now you can have your pad collapse on you, and the early builds were said to be easier to trash...), while VAB/SPH could make them larger (at least, if the Squad doesn't botch it) and give you more engineering readouts (if those are implemented). Also, tracking station upgrades could allow you to see additional info and enable tracking asteroids, or increase the number you can track at one time. R&D upgrades could reduce research cost, or even be required to research certain advanced technologies. Astronaut complex could provide more and better applicants.

Status quo in 0.25 is pretty much a late game KSC (perhaps they could add one or two tiers above it, but not much). I'd imagine that a lot of features we take for granted might be locked at first.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Guest

[Alizerin]

Thank you for so beautifully illustrating this point. The small, simple observatory is fine. There's just no good reason for it to look like literal junk.

"Because it's thematic" is a perfectly good reason.

[CaptainKipard]

"Because it's thematic" is a perfectly good reason.

I don't recall seeing anything remotely like that. Your premise is false.

edit

..., which is irrelevant anyway. A lot of people don't like the "Kerbals are idiots" narrative of KSP.

I don't know how many, but maybe this poll will shed some light on it.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Cpt. Kipard

[Nemrav]

Oh for all you people who say the VAB should look like a factory, I wouldn't take much to do so actually...

Early factories (1750's--1930s) do seem, if undertaken by isolated enough of a community do end up looking like a stretched barn...(2x to 3x the length of barn in pic)

[Daishi]

Oh for all you people who say the VAB should look like a factory, I wouldn't take much to do so actually...

Early factories (1750's--1930s) do seem, if undertaken by isolated enough of a community do end up looking like a stretched barn...(2x to 3x the length of barn in pic)

Even just something not as tall - a squat warehouse is a good foundation for further upgrades to increase the VAB's height. That way as you progress you unlock the capability to launch larger and larger rockets, and the building grows with it. Having the structure this big at the start of the game is strange.

Edit: And thinking about it, it would take a lot of pressure off the modelers making the insides of the buildings. Making five full size VAB's inside and out is a ton more work than a tiny, small, medium, and large one. The smaller the space the more considered it will be, and the easier it is to fill it.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Daishi

[Aragosnat]

Outside of the wooden walkway to the obsourvitoy needing to be broken up and either have the terrain raised or lowered to give it a feeling of depth and not something painted on dirt, which for me does look like it. I'm enjoying the rest of it dispite the textures not being up there yet with the rest of the parts.

Also people need to be reminded that this is Kerbin and not Earth. Where the Kerbals just happen to have aspace program similar to NASA. But, that does not mean they share same history as Earth or any other Dirtling logic. Just my two cents on that subject.

[Geneborg]

Hum....you guys took it quite far with this idea. Mixed feelings on the first impression.

I like the idea. Yes, progression in a game is a good thing, you build up your space program and your facilities to unlock new functionality...great. An art style that matches that is good, too, you get the visual upgrade. First tier beeing a farm? Ok, not disliking it.

From a technical point of view you really seem to lowball it. Whats the limitation here? Unity? Why go so extremely low poly / low res? Some of these buildings seem to match 2004 necessities, not 2014. If you are afraid some of your target audience computers won't handle it then use quality settings for it, LOD stages and so on, but if this is the highest quality we can get than i'm not too happy about it.

[John FX]

I don't recall seeing anything remotely like that. Your premise is false.

edit

..., which is irrelevant anyway. A lot of people don't like the "Kerbals are idiots" narrative of KSP.

I don't know how many, but maybe this poll will shed some light on it.

Well from the poll you posted 47% said they liked it and only 19% said they did not with the remainder (33%) having no firm opinion.

It seems the link you posted proves the opposite to the comment you made when you posted it...

It also seems that there are many more people that actively like it than actively dislike it with a middling number of people who just don`t care enough to say.

It suggests your statement that "A lot of people don't like the "Kerbals are idiots" narrative of KSP." may well be true but more than twice that number actively DO like "the "Kerbals are idiots" narrative of KSP." so it is not as true as the statement `People like the "Kerbals are idiots" narrative`

Your premise is false based on your provided information.

EDIT :

as you progress you unlock the capability to launch larger and larger rockets, and the building grows with it. Having the structure this big at the start of the game is strange.

I agree. I would have imagined the very first VAB as being large enough to fit a small SRB a pod and a chute (maybe also a small fuel tank, an engine and a separator)

About the size of a large shed.

Edited November 11, 2014 by John FX

[CaptainKipard]

What premise.

[Fonzy]

I've been out of the loop for a long time, as I rarely come on here or post but felt the need to chime in on this matter.

I love how far the game has come in the last few updates. My initial reaction to the sneak preview was, "This looks pretty cool." Now having looked at the images again and having had time to think, I feel there are a few things Squad need to address.

The whole idea of humble beginnings is great but I'm not sure the farm setting sits well with everything else. The big barn in particular looks totally out of place, mainly due to its size. The trailers and little pre-fab buildings however look great. They remind me of the Top Gear technology center.

I think the textures and overall model quality need to be addressed. Compared to what has come before they look rushed. I really hope that this still work in progress.

On a side note, I'm surprised at all the hostility on here. People need to remember that this isn't their own individual game or idea. We're all along for the ride, Squad is in the driving seat. We can only dish out directions from the back seat and hope they listen.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Fonzy

[briansun1]

Hum....you guys took it quite far with this idea. Mixed feelings on the first impression.

I like the idea. Yes, progression in a game is a good thing, you build up your space program and your facilities to unlock new functionality...great. An art style that matches that is good, too, you get the visual upgrade. First tier beeing a farm? Ok, not disliking it.

From a technical point of view you really seem to lowball it. Whats the limitation here? Unity? Why go so extremely low poly / low res? Some of these buildings seem to match 2004 necessities, not 2014. If you are afraid some of your target audience computers won't handle it then use quality settings for it, LOD stages and so on, but if this is the highest quality we can get than i'm not too happy about it.

That's probably because it's still in testing, and they just want to show us there idea of what they wan't to make.

[KerbMav]

The whole idea of humble beginnings is great but I'm not sure the farm setting sits well with everything else. The big barn in particular looks totally out of place, mainly due to its size. The trailers and little pre-fab buildings however look great. They remind me of the Top Gear technology center.

They come in different sizes:

Maybe they need much bigger barns because their Kerms let them bring in such huge harvests?

[Moesly_Armlis]

The Munroe Brothers fixed the farm up a little.

[pizzaoverhead]

They come in different sizes:

Maybe they need much bigger barns because their Kerms let them bring in such huge harvests?

The building needs to be much deeper to be believable as a barn. At the moment it looks like an old custom-made wooden VAB. There are lots of ways to sell it as a barn. You could go with the red and white barn trope or adding details like the double-sloped roof with an overhang at the gable end, or small windows on each side, as your pictures show. It would feel like the buildings have been repurposed, rather than the medieval rocketry "ye olde VAB" vibe they have now.

[Geneborg]

That's probably because it's still in testing, and they just want to show us there idea of what they wan't to make.

I have learned over the years that this is not a given. Once devs (on any game) show something its not that far off from what will be in game. Once you have done your model (=polys) and UV (=texture) you won't redo that process, its like redesigning the whole thing. If textures are too streched or tiled its by design (or compromised layout), an early stage blockout usually doesn't look this way, so this is more then just "testing".

We will see, but i'm all for "start with high quality, scale it down with settings", not the other way around.

[Duxwing]

When I saw the pics, it reminded me of the Robert Goddard era... which is not a bad thing in my book.

http://i.imgur.com/Lyn40aC.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/sQv52LJ.jpg

Those magnificent Kerbs in their flying machines!

-Duxwing

[Nemrav]

I have learned over the years that this is not a given. Once devs (on any game) show something its not that far off from what will be in game. Once you have done your model (=polys) and UV (=texture) you won't redo that process, its like redesigning the whole thing. If textures are too streched or tiled its by design (or compromised layout), an early stage blockout usually doesn't look this way, so this is more then just "testing".

We will see, but i'm all for "start with high quality, scale it down with settings", not the other way around.

Its harder to take away vertices than to add them... But while I made use a low end computer 2.2ghz and intergrated graphics, I think (provided new buildings aren't loaded simutaneously) that they can spare quite a bit of polys...

But do keep in mind, a lot of the KSP audience still uses "barely above the minimum" like me...

On the barn topic, I think we can now mostly agree on that all that's needed for the VAB is to have a lower roof and to be a bit longer... In addition to the better textures elsewhere...

[Boomerang]

Well from the poll you posted 47% said they liked it and only 19% said they did not with the remainder (33%) having no firm opinion.

It seems the link you posted proves the opposite to the comment you made when you posted it...

It also seems that there are many more people that actively like it than actively dislike it with a middling number of people who just don`t care enough to say.

It suggests your statement that "A lot of people don't like the "Kerbals are idiots" narrative of KSP." may well be true but more than twice that number actively DO like "the "Kerbals are idiots" narrative of KSP." so it is not as true as the statement `People like the "Kerbals are idiots" narrative`

Your premise is false based on your provided information.

EDIT :

I agree. I would have imagined the very first VAB as being large enough to fit a small SRB a pod and a chute (maybe also a small fuel tank, an engine and a separator)

About the size of a large shed.

That poll was closed with the moving of the thread, so for one thing, that data is incomplete.

And speaking as one of the middle ground data points, as I said in that thread, there's a big leap from referencing junkyard parts and such in part descriptions (which I'm fine with and I think most people are) to turning the KSC into a very poorly modeled farm. I'm honestly a bit surprised they didn't toss a green and black cow or three into those teaser pictures, just to amp up the absurdity a bit more.

[Geneborg]

Its harder to take away vertices than to add them...

Not to argue that point ad infinitum, but thats not necessarily true. It really depends on your planning during design. There are ppl that go low->high, and ppl that go high->low and use integrated tools that remove vertices (with a few manual corrections). The latter is the faster way if you just want to create LOD stages, and its also easy to create normal maps from high poly models. You can automate alot these days.

Well, all i'm saying with this is that ppl shouldn't expect that the screenshot will change drastically. Maybe we can just give them an incentive to be a bit more detailed on the work they have yet to do (other tiers).

[Pestilence]

Reading through this thread I've seen a number of calls for some cows to be added....

If cows are added, I'm going to grab one with the claw, and I'm going to launch that cow into space. I don't know how hardy Kerbin cows are, but if they can tolerate a hard vaccum, I'm going to grab enough of them to place around my Mun base.

--pest

[QuesoExplosivo]

I may not be up for barn raising, but I sure am fine with barn razing!