[1.12.x] Mark IV Spaceplane System (August 18, 2024)

[Nertea]

Yes, it's 100% based on TB2. The old one, not the new one :).

[Freds]

22 hours ago, smotheredrun said:

Where are those launch clamps from?

 

21 hours ago, Benjamin Kerman said:

SpaceY or SpaceY expanded, if I'm seeing correctly.

I have both installed - Space Y is another must-have mod - greatly reduces de complexity (and number of parts, memory, cpu...) needed to launch that monster.....

[Avalon304]

Clicking 'Download' on the AVC alert while the game loads leads to the Cryogenic Engines topic and not the Mark IV System topic.

[Starslinger999]

On 3/16/2017 at 11:47 PM, EnriqueBNew said:

It remembers me the Thunderbird 2. Only to say something .

 

 

On 3/13/2017 at 5:07 PM, Starslinger999 said:

Now that I think about it, This mod's "Thunderhawk" looks a lot like Thunderbird 2's Cockpit. Ima Go build a KSP Thunderbird 2 with this mod.

Thats Literately what I just said 

Also I am having trouble making my TB2 Fly because the "Wings" are so tiny. Wish there was Body Lift for deez

Edited March 19, 2017 by Starslinger999

[sh1pman]

@Nertea hmm, the large cargo bays seem to have shielding issues again. Check @RoverDude's livestream, around 3:47:30 he shows unshielded cargo inside the closed cargo bay. He downloaded the latest version of Mark4 during this livestream. Again, medium cargo bays seem to be fine.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/129616268

Edited March 19, 2017 by sh1pman

[Hesp]

Hi, I found a small bug on the LH2 patch for the Cutlass engine.

The intakeair request in airbreathing mode is insane, it should be about 18 times lower. (rough assumption). Probably the propellant ratio should be modified.

Actually I am not able to feed it with two 2.5m shock cones and two 2.5m heavy precoolers...

 

Added these lines to the patch, now it's working correctly

@PROPELLANT[IntakeAir]
{
	@ratio = 0.327
}

 

Edited March 20, 2017 by Hesp
Math and code

[RoverDude]

@Nertea - thanks for these beautiful parts   We had a great time on my career stream playing with them!

[Nertea]

On 3/19/2017 at 7:27 AM, sh1pman said:

@Nertea hmm, the large cargo bays seem to have shielding issues again. Check @RoverDude's livestream, around 3:47:30 he shows unshielded cargo inside the closed cargo bay. He downloaded the latest version of Mark4 during this livestream. Again, medium cargo bays seem to be fine.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/129616268

Urk. I'm probably not really going to be bothering to fix this anytime in the foreseeable future. 

[Kobymaru]

11 hours ago, Nertea said:

Urk. I'm probably not really going to be bothering to fix this anytime in the foreseeable future. 

[Arcane Intervention]

So, looking forward, what can we expect to see in the future of this beautiful little mod? Don't let all these bug fixes get you down Nertea

[Nertea]

I have quite a number of other projects on the go, but you can typically see the next 5-10 planned parts on the GitHub issues pages.

[Arcane Intervention]

2 hours ago, Nertea said:

I have quite a number of other projects on the go, but you can typically see the next 5-10 planned parts on the GitHub issues pages.

Thanks, sorry I missed that

[maja]

On 21. 3. 2017 at 4:56 AM, Nertea said:

Urk. I'm probably not really going to be bothering to fix this anytime in the foreseeable future. 

I had this bug even with short cargo bays, so I did a few tests on a clean installation. It seems, that it manifests itself if cargo bays are after the Mk4 crew cabin or if there is the Mk4 tail cargo bay at the end. I saw first four hours of the @RoverDude's stream and he had there tail cargo bay. @sh1pman can probably confirm this.

[sh1pman]

1 hour ago, maja said:

I had this bug even with short cargo bays, so I did a few tests on a clean installation. It seems, that it manifests itself if cargo bays are after the Mk4 crew cabin or if there is the Mk4 tail cargo bay at the end. I saw first four hours of the @RoverDude's stream and he had there tail cargo bay. @sh1pman can probably confirm this.

Yeah, but I didn't really research it this time. Somehow my spaceplane still works, and I'm happy about it, not changing anything. 

[Nertea]

3 hours ago, maja said:

I had this bug even with short cargo bays, so I did a few tests on a clean installation. It seems, that it manifests itself if cargo bays are after the Mk4 crew cabin or if there is the Mk4 tail cargo bay at the end. I saw first four hours of the @RoverDude's stream and he had there tail cargo bay. @sh1pman can probably confirm this.

Tests with screenshots, repro steps, craft file, other mods stripped out make me happy.

Other things make me sad.

[maja]

5 hours ago, Nertea said:

Tests with screenshots, repro steps, craft file, other mods stripped out make me happy.

Other things make me sad.

Will do.

[maja]

Sorry for a little delay @Nertea. Here it is. Steps to reproduce, screenshots, craft files and log file. Only mod installed was Mk4 Spaceplane System (version 2.3.6) with all necessary mods from the mod zip file.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jjzgnz5wjq2y3e0/shielding_bug.zip?dl=0

There is also interesting behaviour, when some cargo is unshielded, if you close all bays at the same time. Workaround is to open and immediatelly close a bay with an unshielded cargo (repeat for all bays with an unshielded cargo). This workaround doesn't work, if you have crew cabin or tail bay attached to the bays.

[Operation40]

workaround for the tail bay:
I put a mk4 control core between my tail bay and cargo bay and was able to get my stuff shielded.  I still need to toggle doors.  
so from tail forward I'm doing: tail bay -> mk4 control core -> mk4 cargo bay -> etc, etc

also, the tail bay doesn't shield as big an area as it takes up visually.  I had dawn engines packed in one, and while none visually poked outside, the outer row all the way around the cluster was left "unshielded"
in this picture I've already moved the engines to a mk4 cargo bay but you can see the cluster layout
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=891836445
there's about a .625m area edge of the tail bay that is unusable/unshielded
 

... 1 last thing  the smallest ventral bay has the same drag as the largest cargo bay.  I did try to toggle doors open/closed
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=891855440
this seems like a copy/paste issue from the cfg files -- going to try to copy the drag data from the small cargo bay cfg over to small ventral and see if that brings it more in line with the other parts..

Edited March 26, 2017 by Operation40

[Nertea]

On 3/25/2017 at 0:54 AM, maja said:

Sorry for a little delay @Nertea. Here it is. Steps to reproduce, screenshots, craft files and log file. Only mod installed was Mk4 Spaceplane System (version 2.3.6) with all necessary mods from the mod zip file.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jjzgnz5wjq2y3e0/shielding_bug.zip?dl=0

There is also interesting behaviour, when some cargo is unshielded, if you close all bays at the same time. Workaround is to open and immediatelly close a bay with an unshielded cargo (repeat for all bays with an unshielded cargo). This workaround doesn't work, if you have crew cabin or tail bay attached to the bays.

Thank you for the hideously detailed bug report. I will look into it when I next feel like using a few hours of my life guessing and testing why this is happening (seriously I have about as much an idea of what I'm doing here as you have). 

On 3/26/2017 at 6:55 AM, Operation40 said:

... 1 last thing  the smallest ventral bay has the same drag as the largest cargo bay.  I did try to toggle doors open/closed
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=891855440
this seems like a copy/paste issue from the cfg files -- going to try to copy the drag data from the small cargo bay cfg over to small ventral and see if that brings it more in line with the other parts..

At least that one is simple...

[maja]

26 minutes ago, Nertea said:

Thank you for the hideously detailed bug report. I will look into it when I next feel like using a few hours of my life guessing and testing why this is happening (seriously I have about as much an idea of what I'm doing here as you have). 

No worries. There is at least that workaround with control core or service bay, if someone needs to use that two parts (esp. tail cargo bay).

 

All your mods are great

Edited March 27, 2017 by maja

[Nertea]

 

Just now, maja said:

No worries. There is at least that workaround with control core or service bay, if someone needs to use that two parts (esp. tail cargo bay).

 

Your mods are all great

I don't like working on systems that I don't understand :(, but this is one of the most complete bug reports I've ever seen so it softens the blow a bit!

[smotheredrun]

@Nertea,

I find when looking at plans and trying to figure out what the engineer/architect intended with "the little tiny room/detail that has not been given anywhere in the Specs or other drawings, and has no measurements in any sane location on said plans", (read bug hunting  ) that a scotch or two (or beer or whatever your poison) tends to make the labourious task that much more enjoyable!

Cheers!  Bug hunting now! 

[Operation40]

i've been having lots of fun with this mod.   I hope Nertea sticks with it
having logged a few hours in it, i'm going to have to agree with an earlier poster -- the Broadsword engine feels overpowered..

I'm going to try to retune the cfg so it has only marginal benefit vs 4x rapiers.
Right now it seems like it produces the thrust of 5 rapiers but at the mass of 3 (ish).. I'll have to check the math on that lol.. 

.. edit.. for anyone interested... (anyone?)

	mass	maxthrust air	maxthrust closed
rapier	2.0t	105	180
broadsword	7.6t	530	820

I can't decide if I want it to weigh more or produce less thrust.. or both..

Edited March 29, 2017 by Operation40

[fourfa]

I'd like it to have the same ratios as the stock Rapier but just save a bit of mass, a bit of drag, and part count. YMMV.

Edited March 30, 2017 by fourfa

[Nertea]

On 3/29/2017 at 9:54 AM, Operation40 said:

i've been having lots of fun with this mod.   I hope Nertea sticks with it
having logged a few hours in it, i'm going to have to agree with an earlier poster -- the Broadsword engine feels overpowered..

I'm going to try to retune the cfg so it has only marginal benefit vs 4x rapiers.
Right now it seems like it produces the thrust of 5 rapiers but at the mass of 3 (ish).. I'll have to check the math on that lol.. 

.. edit.. for anyone interested... (anyone?)

	mass	maxthrust air	maxthrust closed
rapier	2.0t	105	180
broadsword	7.6t	530	820

I can't decide if I want it to weigh more or produce less thrust.. or both..

This is a good time to post this kind of thing with the big rebalance on the horizon. There used to be a lot of whining about this engine being too weak, but perhaps that was because of the drag bug we recently fixed. Welcome comments on any other balance problems that aren't drag or cargo bay issues.

One item I'd like some feedback on rebalance-wise: I'm planning on shifting to a separate tweakable for the lobe tanks on must fuselage pieces. That is, no LF/Mono, LF/O/Mono, etc settings on the parts. Just one tweakable for main tank (LF, LF/O) and one for the lobe tanks (Structural, LF, LF/O, Mono). This increases ease of use and ease of maintenance for me (easier to tweak costs, add tank types, etc). Is there any reason NOT to do this?