[0.22] ISA MapSat 4.0 Dev Build

[DarthJazno]

Does anyone else have the problem of this mod not working? I place the satellite dish on a probe, but have no options to turn it on or interact with it at all. the part.cfg files don't have any modules or anything else beyond the "standard part parameters" section. I downloaded it off of spaceport repeatedly and each download is exactly the same. please help as I am unable to figure out the problem on my own.

~Dnulho

As stated a few times in the past 100 or so posts, we need to know which version you are running before offering help. If you got it from Spaceport, chances are you have the 3.3.4 version which is possible to get running but you will need to ask someone more clever than me to make it work or search out the answer in this forum. Although it has it's own issues, I'd suggest you get the 4.0 dev version available from the authors blog. http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/entries/414-0-20-Dev-build-of-Mapsat-4-available-and-blog-update

That said, I spent the evening reading/skimming the past 100 or so posts to solve my own issues. With the exception of some fascinating information about copyright laws , it would be useful to somehow sticky some of the information for the people just discovering this plugin.

My very short memory can recall 4 things that I got out of the past posts... In no particular order...

1. Fix your hilo.dat file. Also turn on auto update, I adjusted mine manually as well.

2. Clean out your artifacts.dat of duplicate entries. You can use a script found here in the forum or just manually delete any duplicate entries.

3. As is, the combination of KSP & ISA Mapsat dev 4 will use lots of memory, so use other parts, mods and plugins at your own risk. Again, more info in this forum.

4. For all versions, look for the compass button in the lower left corner to bring up the Mapsat menu.

Hope that helped. This is one of those mods that isn't quite plug and play but it does work provided you put some effort into it and have a little luck. It works as good as any game in beta does.

Edited October 13, 2013 by DarthJazno

[frozenbacon]

Does anyone else have the problem of this mod not working? I place the satellite dish on a probe, but have no options to turn it on or interact with it at all. the part.cfg files don't have any modules or anything else beyond the "standard part parameters" section. I downloaded it off of spaceport repeatedly and each download is exactly the same. please help as I am unable to figure out the problem on my own.

~Dnulho

I'm using the X4 build and I found that if you rename the "Innsewerants Space Agency" directory to something else, this happens.

[John FX]

As stated a few times in the past 100 or so posts, we need to know which version you are running before offering help. If you got it from Spaceport, chances are you have the 3.3.4 version which is possible to get running but you will need to ask someone more clever than me to make it work or search out the answer in this forum. Although it has it's own issues, I'd suggest you get the 4.0 dev version available from the authors blog. http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/entries/414-0-20-Dev-build-of-Mapsat-4-available-and-blog-update

That said, I spent the evening reading/skimming the past 100 or so posts to solve my own issues. With the exception of some fascinating information about copyright laws , it would be useful to somehow sticky some of the information for the people just discovering this plugin.

My very short memory can recall 4 things that I got out of the past posts... In no particular order...

1. Fix your hilo.dat file. Also turn on auto update, I adjusted mine manually as well.

2. Clean out your artifacts.dat of duplicate entries. You can use a script found here in the forum or just manually delete any duplicate entries.

3. As is, the combination of KSP & ISA Mapsat dev 4 will use lots of memory, so use other parts, mods and plugins at your own risk. Again, more info in this forum.

4. For all versions, look for the compass button in the lower left corner to bring up the Mapsat menu.

Hope that helped. This is one of those mods that isn't quite plug and play but it does work provided you put some effort into it and have a little luck. It works as good as any game in beta does.

This is exactly the sort of thing people need. `If you want 4.x do THIS, If you want 3.3.4 do THIS, if you want 3.3.4 with maps from 4.x do THIS`

While I am running 4.x with no issues, I am tempted to see i I can get better performance with 3.3.4 and also to see if my memory of 3.3.4 is rosier than reality...

[John.E]

Am running 4.x on 3 different installs (stock, mechjeb and one I chop about) with no issues at all at the moment.

[Tiron]

Does anyone else have the problem of this mod not working? I place the satellite dish on a probe, but have no options to turn it on or interact with it at all.

Yeah I'm having this problem as well, does anyone know what I can do to fix it?

If you're not getting the compass (Circle Drawing Tool type) icon in the lower left corner, in my experience this is usually caused by incorrect installation.

If you're using the one off spaceport, well, it was designed for like Version 0.18 or so, so it's going to take some work to fix, and I've no idea what all.

The X4R1 Version is linked in this blog post: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/entries/414-0-20-Dev-build-of-Mapsat-4-available-and-blog-update

To get this one working, you need to remove all old ISA Mapsat parts. In particular anything lurking in Parts or Plugins in KSP root related to mapsat needs to be removed, or it will probably exhibit the problem you two guys are having.

You then need to put the 'Innsewerants Space Agency' folder from the zip into Gamedata. If you put the parts and plugins folders from it directly into the folders in KSP root, you'll have the 'no icon' bug once more.

Also, while you're at it, go into 'Innsewerants Space Agency\Plugins\PluginData\ISA_MapSat' and DELETE the Hilo.dat file. According to Innsewerants you can do this even if 'update hilo.dat' is not checked and it will work fine. I was the one that originally came up with the 'delete hilo.dat' method and specified that you should turn the update on first out of an abundance of caution. IS says it's not neccessary, though: that just has it check for new planets and update if there are.

The next time you load a ship with a mapsat part, the game will appear to hang on the loading screen for some time while it checks the planets and rebuilds hilo.dat. How long depends on your system, I'm told it can be up to several minutes, so be patient. This is strictly a one-time thing: even if you have 'update hilo.dat' checked, it won't do this again unless you re-delete hilo.dat (or if you have update checked, automatically when a new planet is added.)

The bit about cleaning artifacts.dat is only neccessary once you've started scanning, and uses a batch file that was posted some ways back, I've linked it several times for people but don't have the link handy. The X4R1 version tends to put a lot of duplicate entries in for anomalies, that can cause severe lag or crashing when you enable the anomalies display for a planet with a lot of duplicate entries. The batch file cleans the dupes out and eliminates that.

Edit: And yes, the X4R1 version uses ~700MB of Memory, maybe a bit less. ~600MB of that is the very large map textures, apparently due to a general problem KSP has with texture memory usage. My testing shows that it's invariant, and the size is consistent with every step involved in getting the compressed map textures loaded into VRAM is being cached for no particularly good reason(Which seems to be support by some testing I've done). There's an included, very small, png file that's used for blank maps, but planets being scanned or not scanned doesn't seem to vary the usage (which is extremely wrong given that very small blank texture.)

That ~700MB is constant, so long as you've loaded a ship with a mapsat part on it. The map textures aren't loaded if you haven't loaded a ship that has a mapsat part on it yet, so the memory use is about 600MB lower if you haven't used Mapsat yet this session. This is the cause of most people's complaints that trying to use mapsat crashes them: They install mods up to their memory limit, but inadvertently base that on not having the map textures loaded. When they go to use mapsat, the extra memory used by the maps crashes the game, and they end up blaming Mapsat for it basically because Mapsat's doing the right thing and not hogging up memory unnecessarily all the time (As much as KSP will let it, its memory usage for textures really is terrible).

3.3.4 has much smaller, less detailed (and less useful) maps, and so uses much less memory. Personally, I'm just hoping Mu's optimization package helps the texture memory usage in 0.22 and this won't be an issue anymore.

Edited October 14, 2013 by Tiron

[jaxxa90]

... Personally, I'm just hoping Mu's optimization package helps the texture memory usage in 0.22 and this won't be an issue anymore.

Lets hope so.

[sumghai]

I've just migrated my main save game over to 0.22, which included two satellites equipped with MapSat.

Even with 20~30 other unoptimized mods installed, MapSat X4R1....works without crashing at all.

I'd appreciate it if other members of the ISA MapSat userbase could confirm this as well.

[frozenbacon]

I've just migrated my main save game over to 0.22, which included two satellites equipped with MapSat.

Even with 20~30 other unoptimized mods installed, MapSat X4R1....works without crashing at all.

I'd appreciate it if other members of the ISA MapSat userbase could confirm this as well.

Works flawlessly for me as well. The update doesn't seem to affect any mods for me.

[Cleve]

Just tried to download, but the blog page is down. Anyone have a download link for X4R1? Thanks in advance.

[Dweller_Benthos]

I had it running in .22 but didn't switch to any ships that have it installed. I was mostly fooling around getting it to work in career mode (simple change in the part.cfg it turns out) but didn't have time to put one on a ship. All my other mods seem to work fine in .22, at least there's no crash and the parts appear in the VAB, you just have to research them first in the science facility at no cost. You have to click each part though, so a mod with lots of parts would be tedious, unless there's a faster way I haven't found yet. Probably adding the entry cost parameter, I bet.

[jaxxa90]

Looks to be working, but I haven't seen any improvement in the memory usage.

[Tiron]

Even with 20~30 other unoptimized mods installed, MapSat X4R1....works without crashing at all.

The only reason I've yet seen for mapsat to crash a system is that its memory usage put you over the limit, which generally requires that you have a lot of PARTS installed. It's textures that eat memory for breakfest, and Mapsat's a prime offender in this regard because it loads THIRTY 2048x1024 textures every time you use it. Just plugins without a lot of parts don't use very much memory (Mapsat, FAR and Modular Fuel Systems, for example.)

Looks to be working, but I haven't seen any improvement in the memory usage.

At least some of the optimizations he did didn't make it into 0.22. It looks like the load-time improvements did (holy crap, dude.) The optimizations he did to core to improve performance with 'high numbers of parts' did not.

I didn't really have any specific reason to suspect that he'd improved the memory usage for textures, I was just hoping he had, and it doesn't look like he did.

That said, the problem with the memory usage, so far as I can tell, is not the AMOUNT that's being used, it's the fact that almost all of it is cache that isn't getting used. Simply having things cached isn't in and of itself harmful: actually, it can speed up loading substantially because the stuff is already there. The problem is that you're supposed to be able to dump cached items if you need the memory for something else, and KSP doesn't seem to do that. Most of it only seems to get used during scene transitions.

Honestly, probably the best solution for the problem would be to set it up so that it CAN dump the cache when it needs to. The memory usage would still be just as high, but it wouldn't crash if you hit the limit: It'd dump enough stuff to stay under the limit and keep going. It could slow down load times when it had to do that, because it'd have to pull stuff off the hard drive again.

Based on mapsat's usage though, it looks like for textures what it's PROBABLY caching is all the intermediate steps in getting the texture converted into DXT format and sent to the vidcard. If that's true, it's an especially pointless bit of cache, since it shouldn't need to re-covert it unless the texture changed in the meantime, and you'd have to do a manual database reload to do that anyway. They should, theoretically, be able to just dump the original file and what looks like two uncompressed copies as soon as they're done using them, and just keep the DXT.

Presuming I'm right that it's keeping the original file, two uncompressed copies, and the DXT cached (the only way I could think of to get the filesizes up to the amount of memory the maps use), dumping everything but the DXT (the only thing the vidcard can use anyway) would reduce mapsat's memory usage by about 540MB.

[Mekris28]

I just downloaded this mod last night, and I have some problems with it. Keep in mind that I own a Mac computer with 4gb of RAM and an onboard Intel HD 4000 video card. I installed the mod without a hitch, and I put a map sat dish onto my craft. I launched it, and my game started to freeze when I got to 6,000m above Kerbin. It would freeze for a few seconds, then continue for a few, freeze, continue, freeze, and so on, until my game was unplayable. This problem is very consistent, too; with three reinstalls of the mod and two reinstalls of the game, it continues to freeze at 6,000m. I tried to fly another craft without any Map Sat parts, and it ran just fine. The craft I used that had map sat was nearly identical to the other craft. Please help me, for I would like to play my game with mods for once.

[Nibb31]

Turn off mapping during the launch and switch it on again when you reach orbit.

[Tiron]

Turn off mapping during the launch and switch it on again when you reach orbit.

As he says, it's been known to freak out a little bit if you're scanning during a launch, something about all the stuff at KSC staying in the scan-path I think.

I thought X4R1 didn't do that, though...you using 3.3.4?

[OrtwinS]

People, fellow Mappers & Carthographers, friends,

First of all I'd like to proclaim my fandom of the ISA mapsat plugin, the very first 'real' science part of KSP. This mod made probes usefull, and its anomaly detection function has unveiled a mass of easter eggs we would never have found otherwise. (even though f we have 'small' planets compared to the Sol system, we would never have found all that stuff).

And I think it is amazing there are so many other users that actively provide help and support in this thread.

But: How long do we expect we can go on like this?

Like what you say? Well, the last update for ISA mapsat, X4-r1, was released May 24th, and the last update on its development was June 5th.

The plugin creator, Innsewerants, hasn't been active on this forum ever since (almost 4 months ago). Nor has he posted anything on the forum in the time between his May 24th and June 5th blog post.

I'm sure we all realize we can't expect him to dedicate his life to this, and everyone takes breaks from playing certain games. I don't think any of us would blame him for having found other interests in his life. And he has stated he was attempting to start his/her own business in the June post.

The last 'full' release was for KSP 0.19, X4-r1 was released for 0.20, and by now KSP has progressed to 0.22: The Great Science Update.

And what better plugin to do some actual science (well, topographical mapping) than ISA Mapsat?

We now even have Biomes to map! (like this one). However, ISA is falling behind (on bugs and features), and while I wouldn't dare declaring the plugin dead, I think it is severely ill.

I find it incredible hard to say this without sounding disrespectful to Innsewerants and all the hard work he put in, but maybe, just maybe we need to look forward and find something to move on?

We, the community, could request that one of our many talented plugin creators step in and take over. Since I can't find anything about ISA's licencing, so we must assume 'all rights reserved'. And thus our new champion(s) of mapping would have to start from scratch to create a new mapping plugin that can create height-maps and perhaps biome-maps as well.

We could submit a list of all the things we would want it to have (tech level dependent range/speed mapping modules? memory optimization by picking our map-data-file-size in a config? etc.).

I say COULD, because, I would like to make this request in the plugin request forum. But only if you, the hardcore fans of Mapsat, agree with the validity of the case I make.

If any of you has any objections to this, please say so, and I'll just crawl back to my lurk-hole.

>"Why don't you make it yourself?"

I can't program myself (not anything usefull for KSP that is), and I fully realize how spoiled and entitled I sound when asking for someone else to come in and do this. Especially since many people taught themselves to program just so they could make their plugin-dream a reality. If you know a better way of asking this, please tell me. I find English hard enough a language for me to format a proper post (or any post) without sounding like a douche (which I probably do anyway ).

If you find this post in any way offending, please let me know by using the most creative insulting and vulgar vocabulary at your disposal in your response.

[Trevisan]

OrtwinS, I support your idea.

But have you seen this flowchart? Someone said that the Devs have a plan to somehow include the mods pictured in the far right of the techtree into the game when the campaign mode is fully functional. I cant remember the specific thread where this was discussed, though.

That being said, I believe that ISA is going to be integrated into the game just like C7`s plane parts and B9`s fuselages were some time ago. Let us just wait to see.

[TelluriumCrystal]

I fully support the idea of asking another mod author to come forward and recreate Mapsat for 0.22. That being said if Innsewerants were to suddenly return, it would only be fair to let him take over development if he wished to.

[sumghai]

In the ISA MapSat Legacy discussion, Benzschwagel has provided us with an update on Innsewerants' whereabouts:

EDIT: Innsewerants is very much alive and will continue ISA MapSat in the future, he's currently taking a break at the moment. He wants to keep rights reserved to himself and will announce if he wishes to change that in the future, although he will probably seek a replacement first. 17Oct2013

[DerekL1963]

In the ISA MapSat Legacy discussion, Benzschwagel has provided us with an update on Innsewerants' whereabouts:

In other words, it's as OrtwinS said, he's MIA with an increasingly broken mod/plugin and no known date of return.

OrtwinS, I support your idea.

But have you seen this flowchart? Someone said that the Devs have a plan to somehow include the mods pictured in the far right of the techtree into the game when the campaign mode is fully functional. I cant remember the specific thread where this was discussed, though.

Given that MechJeb is in the far right - and the Dev's have said they would not integrate an autopilot...

[OrtwinS]

OrtwinS, I support your idea.

But have you seen this flowchart? Someone said that the Devs have a plan to somehow include the mods pictured in the far right of the techtree into the game when the campaign mode is fully functional. I cant remember the specific thread where this was discussed, though.

That being said, I believe that ISA is going to be integrated into the game just like C7`s plane parts and B9`s fuselages were some time ago. Let us just wait to see.

Thanks! But 'wait and see' is something we have done for some time now. And I expect Squad will be busy with Recources, adding Biomes to other planets and moons, and further expansion of the 'career' part of the career mode (money? contracts? propaganda objectives?).

In the meantime, we would like to map. I would like ALL KSP players to once again regard Mapsat as a 'default' plugin, something you install before running the game even after a new update (I know I did that). Whether 'ISA' is part of that is a minor and mostly emotional issue.

I fully support the idea of asking another mod author to come forward and recreate Mapsat for 0.22. That being said if Innsewerants were to suddenly return, it would only be fair to let him take over development if he wished to.

Thank you, and agreed.

Maybe bringing in some fresh blood will wake him up?

In the ISA MapSat Legacy discussion, Benzschwagel has provided us with an update on Innsewerants' whereabouts:

Thank you for the info, I tried to get my research complete but I missed that.

In other words, it's as OrtwinS said, he's MIA with an increasingly broken mod/plugin and no known date of return.

-snip-

Thank you.

I am glad I'm not the only one who sees that Mapsat is a valuable plugin that we would all love to have regain its deserved glory.

Before I post a request in the request-forum, I'd like to go over a short list of feature & part wishes. So I/we can present a well thought out concept.

Edit: Sorry, I should have realized this is not the place to post such a thing.

I will post a new thread concerning this matter shortly.

Edited October 21, 2013 by OrtwinS
Removed request draft

[DerekL1963]

Before I post a request in the request-forum, I'd like to go over a short list of feature & part wishes. So I/we can present a well thought out concept.

This should *not* be in this thread, but in it's own somewhere else. MIA or not, this is the ISA Mapsat support thread and should be reserved for that alone.

[Majiir]

ISA replacement request *CONCEPT*

See this thread: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/47150-ISA-MapSat-Legacy-discussion

[OrtwinS]

This should *not* be in this thread, but in it's own somewhere else. MIA or not, this is the ISA Mapsat support thread and should be reserved for that alone.

Thanks for noticing and telling me, I went on typing and completely forgot it would be extremely rude to do this thing here, I edited the post.

I'll post a link to the Mapsat Legacy thread soon.Nevermind, Majiir already did

Edited October 21, 2013 by OrtwinS

[John FX]

See this thread: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/47150-ISA-MapSat-Legacy-discussion

re: the other thread, has any progress been made on a new version or has it been shelved? (yourself and ancient had some good ideas but no postings in nearly two months)

So as to not threadjack a reply can be made in the other thread if you like.