[1.3.x] SETI, Unmanned before Manned [Patreon]

[abowl]

Hello, i urge you to revert the changes made to probes, at least the significant increase in Electric storage and the built in ANtennas. I want to use the mod ANtenna Range, and with the built in antennas to the probe cores (i dont even need the antennas built in) this gets quite bloaty

[sherkaner]

Hello, i urge you to revert the changes made to probes, at least the significant increase in Electric storage and the built in ANtennas. I want to use the mod ANtenna Range, and with the built in antennas to the probe cores (i dont even need the antennas built in) this gets quite bloaty

I disagree strongly, and I'm not sure what you mean by "bloaty". My understanding is that the reason for those changes to probe cores is totally in support of the career/tech tree flow that Yemo has put together. The player needs to be able to run a number of unmanned sounding rocket type missions at the start of the game, and this requires probe cores with power and communication built-in. Otherwise, players need to start strapping on batteries and antennas, which quickly forces much more complex rocket designs (especially with the new aero).

I believe Yemo's intention is to adjust things so that the add-on antennas used by Antenna Range will be more capable than the built-in probe antennas. This way, probes can be effectively used early on, but the more ambitious missions and elaborate communication networks that Antenna Mod is intended for will require using the add-on antennas.

[kcs123]

Now I have found small bug/glitch that involves SETIctt and contracts.

I accepted contract for measuring temperature and pressure on surface. When I finally managed that DMagic unversal storage sci parts working, I have removed stock termometar from craft and I put DMagics one on craft: Univ.storage-presmat/2 Hot.

I landed on proper spot from contract, measured required, but contract is not updated. It can recognize job done only if you have used stock parts for measurments.

So, it should be either, text change fin contracts to state proper part needed for job, or alow other parts to trigger event that job is done.

Other than that, I having fun using Heli to grind money and science by taking measurments on hard to land otherwise spots on planets.

[Magaman]

I just started using SETI and I must say it's great. I've always felt like the game should have started with probes. My biggest question is, is it intended that SETI contracts appears to have removed the speed/distance contracts that automatically get awarded. Is that a balancing intention or a bug? Right now I'm running with only SETICtt, and have some other contract mods added like ScanSAT. I felt liek I was constantly strapped for money with SETI contracts.

[doublewohli]

Hello,

i may be stupid, but where is the Command Pod Mk1 when going for the unmanned start? I can't find the Node for researching it. Do I miss something?

Nice Mod so far.

[Yemo]

Hello, i urge you to revert the changes made to probes, at least the significant increase in Electric storage and the built in ANtennas. I want to use the mod ANtenna Range, and with the built in antennas to the probe cores (i dont even need the antennas built in) this gets quite bloaty

I disagree strongly, and I'm not sure what you mean by "bloaty". My understanding is that the reason for those changes to probe cores is totally in support of the career/tech tree flow that Yemo has put together. The player needs to be able to run a number of unmanned sounding rocket type missions at the start of the game, and this requires probe cores with power and communication built-in. Otherwise, players need to start strapping on batteries and antennas, which quickly forces much more complex rocket designs (especially with the new aero).

I believe Yemo's intention is to adjust things so that the add-on antennas used by Antenna Range will be more capable than the built-in probe antennas. This way, probes can be effectively used early on, but the more ambitious missions and elaborate communication networks that Antenna Mod is intended for will require using the add-on antennas.

As sherkaner said, the general probe core changes are imho necessary to make probe cores more viable.

Though the current incompatibility with Antenna Range is not intentional and will be fixed in the next update (which is essentially ready, just waiting for 1.0.3).

Now I have found small bug/glitch that involves SETIctt and contracts.

I accepted contract for measuring temperature and pressure on surface. When I finally managed that DMagic unversal storage sci parts working, I have removed stock termometar from craft and I put DMagics one on craft: Univ.storage-presmat/2 Hot.

I landed on proper spot from contract, measured required, but contract is not updated. It can recognize job done only if you have used stock parts for measurments.

So, it should be either, text change fin contracts to state proper part needed for job, or alow other parts to trigger event that job is done.

Other than that, I having fun using Heli to grind money and science by taking measurments on hard to land otherwise spots on planets.

Hm, I did not change anything in particular regarding the DMagic Universal Storage wedges, not sure what is causing this. Since I have very little knowledge in this field (the SETIcontracts only require "generic" science), maybe DMagic or nightingale from ContractConfigurator have knowledge about that.

While I really like the Universal Storage system, I really dislike the "balance" the parts provide without alterations. For example the science wedges from DMagic are all 80kg, regardless of the original part. So I do not officially support them until rebalancing them, as I did in the old BalanceMod. But people will object if I do that for SETIctt, and I dont really want to reboot the BalanceMod at the moment, until SETIctt/KSP is a bit more mature.

- - - Updated - - -

I just started using SETI and I must say it's great. I've always felt like the game should have started with probes. My biggest question is, is it intended that SETI contracts appears to have removed the speed/distance contracts that automatically get awarded. Is that a balancing intention or a bug? Right now I'm running with only SETICtt, and have some other contract mods added like ScanSAT. I felt liek I was constantly strapped for money with SETI contracts.

I had to remove the record contracts, because when I left them in, I had a little short of a million funds in normal mode when reaching orbit.

Though I do recommend other non-standard-progression contract packs, like the excellent anomaly survey one, or the ones for the complexity mods, like ScanSAT and RemoteTech.

For the "strapped for money", I tested on hard settings and it did not feel this way. But it is a bit of a change from stock, you really have to build probes/light/efficient and manned space missions or even stations are a financial undertaking.

Lightweight/multiuse design is key.

I offered some craft files for the previous BalanceMod, I might do that again after 1.0.3. For inspiration.

Hello,

i may be stupid, but where is the Command Pod Mk1 when going for the unmanned start? I can't find the Node for researching it. Do I miss something?

Nice Mod so far.

The Mk1 pod should be right behind the first survivability node, demarked as "First Capsule" on the overview below:

Edited May 27, 2015 by Yemo

[doublewohli]

Hey,

thanks for the very fast answer.

I don't know whats bugging it, but it seems i only have the stock tree with updated node content.

Reinstalling SETI didn't help.

What could cause this problem?

Edit: Updating the Module Manager seemed to do the trick! So its working as intended now..

Edited May 27, 2015 by doublewohli

[Yemo]

Hey,

thanks for the very fast answer.

I don't know whats bugging it, but it seems i only have the stock tree with updated node content.

Reinstalling SETI didn't help.

What could cause this problem?

Could you provide a screenshot of your GameData folder?

[Minwaabi]

The current version of SETIctt does not play well with the new Deadly Reentry. The reason is that it sets some parts (specifically themometers, barometers, struts and fuel pipes) to be massless, and DRE really hates that. The result is tons of nullpointer exceptions in the log and a significant framerate drop.

I manually edited some low mass into SETIctt/MM-PartModding/SETI-PartMod-SQUAD-Science.cfg, and things work properly again.

So it sounds like Seti does not play well with Deadly Reentry without those configs. Are there other mods that Seti does not play well with? It seems like the other issues people are having have been fixed (DMmagic 1.0.3) and bad installs. Any other outstanding issues?

While hopefully this question will be helpful to others, I selfishly want to know if it will work with big game changing mods like Deadly Reentry (with those configs), FAR, Remote Tech, TAC, and Kerbal Construction Time as well as part packs like MKS, Sounding Rockets, Station Science, Orbital Science, Cateye telescope mod etc. I know a lot of these were okay previously (at least according to the OP, but I know stuff has been recently updated, so I don't know if it all plays nice together now.

[Yemo]

So it sounds like Seti does not play well with Deadly Reentry without those configs. Are there other mods that Seti does not play well with? It seems like the other issues people are having have been fixed (DMmagic 1.0.3) and bad installs. Any other outstanding issues?

While hopefully this question will be helpful to others, I selfishly want to know if it will work with big game changing mods like Deadly Reentry (with those configs), FAR, Remote Tech, TAC, and Kerbal Construction Time as well as part packs like MKS, Sounding Rockets, Station Science, Orbital Science, Cateye telescope mod etc. I know a lot of these were okay previously (at least according to the OP, but I know stuff has been recently updated, so I don't know if it all plays nice together now.

I have not tried them out recently, but this is my current knowledge:

DeadlyReentry - as far as I know, incompatibility will be addressed in next DeadlyReentry patch

FAR, KCT, MKS - no problems I m aware of, I did not change stuff for them and do not plan to do so

RemoteTech, TAC Life Support, OrbitalScience - SETIctt has specific configs for those, worked well when I tested in 1.0.2, except for non SETI related issues

SoundingRockets - not tested, probably skews the science balance of the early game

StationScience - is planned to be placed in different tech nodes with the next SETIctt update

CactEYE - no issues I m aware of, but not tested, maybe not balanced in terms of tech tree/science rewards, planned for a later update

Edited May 27, 2015 by Yemo

[Minwaabi]

Thanks for the very thorough response. Definitely going to try it out then when DR updates.

[doublewohli]

Could you provide a screenshot of your GameData folder?

My Edit above was too late. I fixed the problem by updating the ModuleManager .dll. It's working now as intended and i am having fun, although i undid most modifications of the parts. Thanks for this mod!

[kcs123]

Hm, I did not change anything in particular regarding the DMagic Universal Storage wedges, not sure what is causing this. Since I have very little knowledge in this field (the SETIcontracts only require "generic" science), maybe DMagic or nightingale from ContractConfigurator have knowledge about that.

While I really like the Universal Storage system, I really dislike the "balance" the parts provide without alterations. For example the science wedges from DMagic are all 80kg, regardless of the original part. So I do not officially support them until rebalancing them, as I did in the old BalanceMod. But people will object if I do that for SETIctt, and I dont really want to reboot the BalanceMod at the moment, until SETIctt/KSP is a bit more mature.

Not a big deal anyway. I have installed Universal storage only because I was thinking that is necessary for MK1 service bay. That one is only required as MK1 cargo bay is not covered with any other mod or stock parts.

I didn't realize at first that this item is actually in SETIctt mod. I was tried that DMagic/Universal combo since I spend a lot of time troubleshooting issues I encountered. Those parts does no provide any additional gameplay expirience over other parts that comes with Orbital science and SCANsat mod. They looks cool, but it is not essential for career. I would probably just remove Universal storage properly and make some RAM space for other mods, like Station science that provide that heavy animal food that I used before as test cargo for my crafts.

Will see. I still searching for good mod combo that will provide good gameplay expirience and work stable with each other.

Anyway, it is good to know what users need to pay attention to, if they use this Orbital science/Universal storage combo.

If there is no way to avoid/fix this bug than just put it in some "Known issues" list or something.

Cheers, hopefully, KSP 1.0.3 will come out within couple of days, so there will be less bugs to worry about.

[Magaman]

I had to remove the record contracts, because when I left them in, I had a little short of a million funds in normal mode when reaching orbit.

Though I do recommend other non-standard-progression contract packs, like the excellent anomaly survey one, or the ones for the complexity mods, like ScanSAT and RemoteTech.

For the "strapped for money", I tested on hard settings and it did not feel this way. But it is a bit of a change from stock, you really have to build probes/light/efficient and manned space missions or even stations are a financial undertaking.

Lightweight/multiuse design is key.

I offered some craft files for the previous BalanceMod, I might do that again after 1.0.3. For inspiration.

Yeah it isn't bad I hover around 200K, my most expensive vessel has been like 25K, I'm just worried as I get a bit further and the part prices start to spike, though now that I can add more parts I can start using stage recovery and hopefully it will offset. Great mod though, so much more realistic.

[kerbsy]

Hello again,

I've encountered a new issue tonight. After accepting the Duna/Ike Flyby contract, I have a persistent stutter (once or twice per second, same interval) when in flight mode, regardless of the vessel. I've tracked it down to having that contract. I can cancel it through the debug menu and immediately the issue goes away (I've reproduced this several times). Nothing abnormal seems to be showing up in my output log.

[FreeThinker]

Heads up KSPI update to 1.1.14 for Kerbal Space Program 1.0.2

Released on 2015-05-30

• Fixed line of sight between Microwave relays
  
  
• Improved heat production scaling Thermal nozzle/Turbojet
  
  
• Increased maximum Isp Thermal nozzles/turbojet
  
  
• Lowered upgraded core temperature antimatter reactor
  
  
• Core temperature antimatter reactor now scales linear with size and mass scales with volume, which improves TWR of small antimatter reactors
  
  
• Radiators condition now affect ability to prevent overeating thermal nozzle/turbojet
  
  
• Improved Efficiency Helium as electric propellant to 78%
  
  
• Fixed Cryostat power requirement for SETI/NFT-E Mode
  
  
• Excluded Filter Extensions from download package, you are advised to download them separately
  
  

[Requia]

After moving everything over to ckan (which included an update to this) USI Freight transportation technologies are all showing up in the very first nuclear node, instead of filling up the down the road stuff. Not sure if its a bug with the version or if its an issue on my end.

[Cpt.Teacup]

I have a bug for you in Contracts 0.9.1. The Manned Kerbin Landing contract looks at a specific vessel, which doesn't work very well. It should allow any vessel to do it like the unmanned variant.

[Undeadbanana]

I want to thank you for making these mods.

I switched my game to Linux and decided to hunt for mods, not really sure how I found your mod but when I saw your recommended/compatible mod list I decided to try and download everything on it and your mods to help balance everything out. The way you organized everything is outstanding, my experience with mods and KSP have been pretty limited so downloading a ton of mods has been a little frustrating since one research node in stock game will have like 40-50 parts to unlock, so it's very hard to keep up with all the changes. Your tree has helped me get to understand the mods slowly. With all the mods I've downloaded, your tree has been the biggest help with navigating through new technology.

[doublewohli]

Hello,

i came up with a new question.

What influences when the procedural Parts Fuel Tanks unlock bigger sizes?

As i deleted the stock Tanks for more RAM, but i am lacking 2,5m Tanks, although i have lots of Parts already supporting this size.

Edit:

Or better, where do i find it to look it up for myself?

Edited May 31, 2015 by doublewohli

[kcs123]

It is probably my mistake somehow, but I cant figure out what is wrong with my orbit to fullfill contract.

Picture shows orbit info and contract requirement at same time. It is realy hard to adjust Ap and Pe because even 0.1 m/s of dV have a large influence to satellite orbit.

[Svm420]

Your inclination is way off. You need a retrograde orbit.

[Yemo]

@all:

Thank you for the support!

Hello again,

I've encountered a new issue tonight. After accepting the Duna/Ike Flyby contract, I have a persistent stutter (once or twice per second, same interval) when in flight mode, regardless of the vessel. I've tracked it down to having that contract. I can cancel it through the debug menu and immediately the issue goes away (I've reproduced this several times). Nothing abnormal seems to be showing up in my output log.

Hm, I cant find anything, though I m not very versed in contracts. The Duna/Ike one does not use anything which is not present in other contracts, as far as I can see.

Maybe nightingale from the ContractConfigurator thread can help?

After moving everything over to ckan (which included an update to this) USI Freight transportation technologies are all showing up in the very first nuclear node, instead of filling up the down the road stuff. Not sure if its a bug with the version or if its an issue on my end.

I have not changed anything with regards to USI Freight Transportation Technologies. You could ask in the FTT thread, FTT itself might provide a config for CTT. In any case, I try to stay clear of meddling with RoverDudes mods as much as I can for the scope of my mods.

If you mention SETIctt within the FTT thread, please make sure to also mention that SETIctt did not change anything for FTT...

I have a bug for you in Contracts 0.9.1. The Manned Kerbin Landing contract looks at a specific vessel, which doesn't work very well. It should allow any vessel to do it like the unmanned variant.

It will define the first vessel which fulfills the criteria as the named vessel.

The intention is, that you really have to land the vessel at the end without destroying it.

What part of it does not work?

Hello,

i came up with a new question.

What influences when the procedural Parts Fuel Tanks unlock bigger sizes?

As i deleted the stock Tanks for more RAM, but i am lacking 2,5m Tanks, although i have lots of Parts already supporting this size.

Edit:

Or better, where do i find it to look it up for myself?

The unlock sizes are defined in the configs of ProceduralParts, I have not changed them for SETIctt.

Although it is planned to do so at some point, as it was done in the original BalanceMod.

Will probably have to wait until KSP is out of Beta.

It is probably my mistake somehow, but I cant figure out what is wrong with my orbit to fullfill contract.

Picture shows orbit info and contract requirement at same time. It is realy hard to adjust Ap and Pe because even 0.1 m/s of dV have a large influence to satellite orbit.

http://i.imgur.com/gNi3n3D.png

I recommend using the mod precise nodes in general.

But for this specific case, the problem is just the inclination. The contract wants 180° inclination, which is exactly counter to your current orbit.

For massive inclination changes (above 60° or so) it might be beneficial to raise your apoapsis and do the reversal over there (since you are slower), and then lower apo again. There was a formula floating around somewhere, but I can not find it at the moment.

This thread should help for a start:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/69036

[kcs123]

Thanks Yemo, I missed that inclantion. I have to put sattelite in Kerbin orbit using west direction, not at east as most of us usually do. Probably I will be able to put it close enough, because I have already triggered "stable" orbit for 10 sec, so it must be close to contract, but satellite must travel in oposite direction as it is now.

[theonegalen]

So: two mod configs for the SETIctt:

1. FantomWorks KAX+ Parts Pack

//------\\
//---SETI-CTT---\\
//------\\
//---Tech Tree changes for FantomWorks KAX+ Pack---\\
//------\\


//---K-2 Kerbeye Cockpit
@PART[FWKerbeyeCockpit]:NEEDS[FantomWorks]:FOR[SETIctt]
{
	@TechRequired = subsonicFlight
}

//---KRJ/K400 Cockpit
@PART[FWKRJCockpitCockpit]:NEEDS[FantomWorks]:FOR[SETIctt]
{
	@TechRequired = subsonicFlight
}

//---1.875 Tail
@PART[FWKRJTail]:NEEDS[FantomWorks]:FOR[SETIctt]
{
	@TechRequired = subsonicFlight
}

//----KRJ Fuselage
@PART[FWKRJFuselage]:NEEDS[FantomWorks]:FOR[SETIctt]
{
	@TechRequired = specializedConstruction
}

//---Heavy Cargo Fuselage
@PART[FWmedcargoFuselage]:NEEDS[FantomWorks]:FOR[SETIctt]
{
	@TechRequired = heavyAerodynamics
}

//---Heavy Crew Fuselage
@PART[FWmedcrewFuselage]:NEEDS[FantomWorks]:FOR[SETIctt]
{
	@TechRequired = heavyAerodynamics
}

//---Cargo Ramp
@PART[FWmedcargoramp]:NEEDS[FantomWorks]:FOR[SETIctt]
{
	@TechRequired = heavyAerodynamics
}

and

2. Heat Management - heat sinks are in Heat Management Systems, Active Heat Management Systems are in Advanced Heat Management, and the radiators are in Specialized Radiators. This assumes that the radiators are the best for the job because they don't use EC and are better at getting rid of heat than the heat sinks. This is not balanced with other mods with radiators / heat management systems like Interstellar Extended or Deep Space Exploration Vehicles, which I am not using.

//------\\
//---SETI-CTT---\\
//------\\
//---Tech Tree changes for Heat Management---\\
//------\\


//---Small Radiator Panels
@PART[Radiator125]:NEEDS[HeatManagement]:FOR[SETIctt]
{
	@TechRequired = specializedRadiators
}

//---Large Radiator Panels
@PART[Radiator250]:NEEDS[HeatManagement]:FOR[SETIctt]
{
	@TechRequired = specializedRadiators
}

//---1.25m Heatsink
@PART[Heatsink125n]:NEEDS[HeatManagement]:FOR[SETIctt]
{
	@TechRequired = heatManagementSystems
}

//----2.5m Heatsink
@PART[Heatsink250n]:NEEDS[HeatManagement]:FOR[SETIctt]
{
	@TechRequired = heatManagementSystems
}

//---3.75m Heatsink
@PART[Heatsink375n]:NEEDS[HeatManagement]:FOR[SETIctt]
{
	@TechRequired = heatManagementSystems
}

//---Active Heat Management System (1.25m)
@PART[IAHMS125]:NEEDS[HeatManagement]:FOR[SETIctt]
{
	@TechRequired = advHeatManagement
}

//---Active Heat Management System (2.5m)
@PART[IAHMS250]:NEEDS[HeatManagement]:FOR[SETIctt]
{
	@TechRequired = advHeatManagement
}

//---Active Heat Management System (3.75m)
@PART[IAHMS375]:NEEDS[HeatManagement]:FOR[SETIctt]
{
	@TechRequired = advHeatManagement
}