KSP 1.0 General Thread + All the new features

[Daze]

Updated, thanks basic.syntax

[BudgetHedgehog]

Yeah sorry guys, I wanted to make a post saying it was cancelled, but it felt silly to start a new thread that was pointless and I wasn't sure what existing thread the news would've been suitable in. I'm kinda annoyed about it as Friday was my day off and I really needed to catch up on sleep but hey, you can't plan illness. Hope Max is feeling better.

[RobotsAndSpaceships]

So, nothing except a barn that hasn't been done by mods before?

[Seshins]

Leaving out parts of the game in full release would be suicide, the people that buy it would be expecting a full game, when they see stuff is missing...

Who knows

Happened to The Crew - very poorly handled release with much missing content. As for 1.0 - still no mention anywhere since ages ago about the proposed discovery mechanic? I was really looking forward to that.

[Nobody_1707]

I don't think that's quite as simple as putting in a new pair of shoes. They might have to rebuild the whole application. Yikes!

They'll have to rewrite the entire physics system, again. Then they'll have to redo all the shaders. Then they'll need to rebuld the whole app. Then they'll need to deal with all the Unity 5 bugs, because U5 just came out and is guaranteed to have new bugs. They will almost certainly need to give U5 support it's own update with no other big features.

[BudgetHedgehog]

So, nothing except a barn that hasn't been done by mods before?

If that's what you think, why should Squad even continue with KSP? "Ehh, it's been done before, no need" - that leaves the stock game empty and incomplete. So get everyone to download KSP AND all these mods and then you have a playable game. Fantastic idea. God forbid Squad should actually complete the game..

[Rune]

I kept hitting refresh for an OWK post, but nothing. So I thought to check twitter, and:

[GusTurbo]

So, nothing except a barn that hasn't been done by mods before?

Did Squad do something that really hurt you personally? You've only been a member of the forums for 6 months or less, and yet almost every post I see you make in General Discussion seems full of bitterness and cynicism about this game. What is your story?

Even regex, resident forum curmudgeonly cynic has gotten excited about the features coming in 1.0. Why such negativity from you?

Edited March 9, 2015 by GusTurbo

[r4pt0r]

Did Squad do something that really hurt you personally? You've only been a member of the forums for 6 months or less, and yet almost every post I see you make in General Discussion seems full of bitterness and cynicism about this game. What is your story?

Even regex, resident forum curmudgeonly cynic has gotten excited about the features coming in 1.0. Why such negativity from you?

He's like that, you get used to it.

Really after how long the modding community has been around, obviously most of the things that Squad adds to the game will have already been done before. Mods are popular because some people want certain things in the game.

So you can say "Squad cant do anything original, they are lazy and just assimilate mods into the game"

or you can say "Squad sees what people like, and use that player feedback to determine what to add to the game. since they see ____mod is popular, they take the already excellent mod and make it stock"

Perspective varies by person.

Edited March 9, 2015 by r4pt0r

[Frozen_Heart]

Its ridiculous saying that something shouldn't be added if mods have done it. Mods have done everything by now. Should Squad just stop developing and abandon KSP?

I use some mods but they are basically acting as a placeholder until the feature is officially added.

[r4pt0r]

Should Squad just stop developing and abandon KSP?

That might be a legitimate concern after 1.0

Edited March 9, 2015 by r4pt0r

[Robotengineer]

Isn't it kind of hard to have 'new' features that haven't been done by a mod when the modding community has been around for almost as long as the game itself has? It's hard to differentiate between what started out as a mod and what was a planned feature from the start after years of simultaneous development of the game and mods. It's possible that what may seem like just a mod integration to some people has actually been planned to be implemented in the game before the mod was released.

[RobotsAndSpaceships]

Did Squad do something that really hurt you personally? You've only been a member of the forums for 6 months or less, and yet almost every post I see you make in General Discussion seems full of bitterness and cynicism about this game. What is your story?

I've had the game since around somewhere .19, just never joined the forums until not long ago. There are several reasons I'm not excited for 1.0, for one, there is no other beta update, which seems pretty silly, considering the literal hundreds of bugs this game has. Two, as I already mentioned, there's are no big original features coming from Squad, and it feels like it's going the way of Minecraft's development, deciding they can let the modders do all the work. Even with the content we're getting in 1.0, it's still not good enough to be considered a finished product. I highly doubt they can fix all 693 bugs that are listed on the bugtracker in just one update. Inb4 there will be more bugfixes after 1.0 I doubt it, we may get a few, and possibly (fingers crossed) a Unity 5 upgrade, but I still doubt they can fix that many bugs in just a few updates.

If that's what you think, why should Squad even continue with KSP? "Ehh, it's been done before, no need" - that leaves the stock game empty and incomplete. So get everyone to download KSP AND all these mods and then you have a playable game. Fantastic idea. God forbid Squad should actually complete the game..

Squad should concentrate on the two things that only they can do: major bugfixes, and fresh, original content. It gets tiring seeing them do everything modders do, but at a lower quality.

[Wjolcz]

or you can say "Squad sees what people like, and use that player feedback to determine what to add to the game. since they see ____mod is popular, they take the already excellent mod and make it stock"

This is my perspective.

Its hard to come up with something new when everything was already created by modders. You could also also say its their fault because they made the game moddable. What else do you want to be implemented that wasnt done by a mod? Puppies?

A question to RobotsAndSpaceships: what kind of content do you consider fresh and original? Maybe you could give us an example?

E: I really dont wanna go offtop but heres something about Minecraft: Mojang doomed it by adding RPG elements. That made a sandbox/building game into a game about killing everybody. Pretty original idea, wasnt it?

Also would be nice if we got some fresh developement pics even if there was no Squadcast this week.

Edited March 9, 2015 by Veeltch

[johnnyhandsome]

Here's what I would like: A way for mods to communicate with each other. So SCANSAT could communicate landing coordinates to MechJeb, instead of me having to write stuff down.

It's the 21st century! Why am I writing stuff down?!

Also, it would be nice if the preflight checklist would be something users can create in game. For instance, I like the solar panels on my landing craft to toggle when hitting the number 3 on the keyboard. But this is just for panels on the landing craft. Solar panels on the booster that gets the lander to wherever should only open with num key 6. Being able to add that to the preflight checklist would be awesome!

[Wjolcz]

Here's what I would like: A way for mods to communicate with each other. So SCANSAT could communicate landing coordinates to MechJeb, instead of me having to write stuff down.

It's the 21st century! Why am I writing stuff down?!

Also, it would be nice if the preflight checklist would be something users can create in game. For instance, I like the solar panels on my landing craft to toggle when hitting the number 3 on the keyboard. But this is just for panels on the landing craft. Solar panels on the booster that gets the lander to wherever should only open with num key 6. Being able to add that to the preflight checklist would be awesome!

A simple in-game notepad widget would be also useful.

[Vashts]

I believe there is such a mod that does this

[GusTurbo]

I've had the game since around somewhere .19, just never joined the forums until not long ago. There are several reasons I'm not excited for 1.0, for one, there is no other beta update, which seems pretty silly, considering the literal hundreds of bugs this game has. Two, as I already mentioned, there's are no big original features coming from Squad, and it feels like it's going the way of Minecraft's development, deciding they can let the modders do all the work. Even with the content we're getting in 1.0, it's still not good enough to be considered a finished product. I highly doubt they can fix all 693 bugs that are listed on the bugtracker in just one update. Inb4 there will be more bugfixes after 1.0 I doubt it, we may get a few, and possibly (fingers crossed) a Unity 5 upgrade, but I still doubt they can fix that many bugs in just a few updates.

Squad should concentrate on the two things that only they can do: major bugfixes, and fresh, original content. It gets tiring seeing them do everything modders do, but at a lower quality.

Thank you, I understand your concerns better now. I can definitely empathize, since I've been around since .18. It can be frustrating to to see longstanding bugs overlooked or ignored, and it does often seem like they are simply taking popular mods and trying to add them into the game. That said, it must be very difficult to add truly original content to the game that hasn't been a mod first. With a lot of mods, people took planned features and made them happen before Squad could. Of course, with that, you get into a question of whether they planned it originally, or just cribbed the idea from a modder. The main thing is that both Squad and modders are aiming to give players what they want. Since the modding community is so excellent and responsive, Squad has to try to come up with things that people don't know they want. That's a tall order, and it can lead to things that don't go over well. I feel like they are in somewhat of a double bind, because giving people what they want may seem lazy, since it's likely been done by mods before, but going for something truly original can totally flop. Personally, I would prefer that they stick with the first strategy. The game becomes more complete that way, and hopefully more fun.

I think the Minecraft comparison is distinguishable because Minecraft is so open. Minecraft is an open world game based around mining and building. KSP is a simplified spaceflight simulation game. I would argue that people have more preconceived ideas about what should be in a space simulation game than something like Minecraft. The things people want in KSP make sense within the context of this type of game, so they are the most likely things to be added by modders and the developers. The things in Minecraft? Who knows what makes sense in that type of game.

It's easy to criticize Squad, and I think there are a lot of criticisms that have merit. That said, I still think this is a fantastic game, and I worry that negativity about what should be in the game may overshadow what's already good about it. As a long-time player and forumer, I've been guilty of it myself in the past. But for the future of this community, I don't want to scare off people who otherwise would have fallen in love with the game like I did. In any event, I'm not trying to rebut your arguments. I was mainly inspired to try being more introspective by this post: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/111773-The-Positive-Forum-movement

[Superfluous J]

Squad should concentrate on the two things that only they can do: major bugfixes, and fresh, original content. It gets tiring seeing them do everything modders do, but at a lower quality.

They have already said they are doing major and massive bugfixing, so I'll address the "Fresh, original content" part.

Modders have several huge benefits that Squad doesn't have:

1. There are literally hundreds more of them.
   
2. They have a much lower threshold for bug and ease-of-use tolerance.
   
3. They can update hourly, dozens of times in a day if need be, and (almost) nobody cares.
   

Squad has to move slower than modders. They MUST get it right (and by right I mean at least reasonably easy to use and without any huge bugs) the first time. Their failures to do that are actually proof that they must; they get LAMBASTED whenever anything is wrong - and other than the bitterness in the posts I tend to agree with them.

Because Squad has to move slower (and they're doing more than any modder does), it takes them MONTHS to get a single update out, and in those months modders take everything new that's come out in the previous update and expand on it in every single conceivable way so there ends up being NOTHING left to do except - in the next version - put some of those in the game.

Sometimes these mods put in something that Squad hasn't started on at all, like when Squad mostly just added FinePrint instead of thinking up their own contracts, or adding the B9 parts instead of reinventing them. Other times its things like their added icons on the navball that do the main portion of what Enhanced Navball did that was actually just finishing something they had started but left unfinished, or the upcoming changes to aerodynamics which sound like they are going for a far more fundamental change to the system than Ferram did. Not because FAR was bad or anything - but because with their access to the core code of the game they were simply able to when he was not.

Could you name some fresh, original content you'd like to see in the game that a modder has not done? I can't, which is why I ask. Or do you just want some nebulously defined "new" stuff?

[egoego]

On the latest Devnote http://kerbaldevteam.tumblr.com/post/113288656704/devnote-tuesday-rocket-technology Maxmaps mentioned, that they have an internal release date. This may be weeks or month before the public release date, but I am now very curious. Has anyone any details on this date? Is someone from the dev team reading this and can give us at least a year and a quarter?

[klgraham1013]

As far as Squad doing something new and fresh. Gizmos were a godsend.

[Daze]

On the latest Devnote http://kerbaldevteam.tumblr.com/post/113288656704/devnote-tuesday-rocket-technology Maxmaps mentioned, that they have an internal release date. This may be weeks or month before the public release date, but I am now very curious. Has anyone any details on this date? Is someone from the dev team reading this and can give us at least a year and a quarter?

As i've already said i think that we are at 4-5 weeks from public release, also i don't think that we can have real date from real source :/

[klgraham1013]

On the latest Devnote http://kerbaldevteam.tumblr.com/post/113288656704/devnote-tuesday-rocket-technology Maxmaps mentioned, that they have an internal release date. This may be weeks or month before the public release date, but I am now very curious. Has anyone any details on this date? Is someone from the dev team reading this and can give us at least a year and a quarter?

I know people won't want to hear this, but I hope the release is still quite a ways off. They're adding major new systems and not using the ready and willing beta testers at their disposal. This means they have to rely on internal testing.

I say take your time. Make sure the tech tree isn't trash. Make contracts fun. (However you do that.) Plug the leaks and batten down the hatches. This is 1.0. Whatever Squad wants us to think that means, it means something very specific to average Joe consumer.

[JimmyAgent007]

Im very much hoping they leave the tech tree editor in place for us to play with. Ive suggested it long ago and seen others suggest it. Drag and drop, input science values, make and remove nodes, all when you start a new game to make it your way. A healthy new default tech tree would be fantastic as well but no matter how good it is, people will want to tweak it a bit at the very least.

[egoego]

I know people won't want to hear this, but I hope the release is still quite a ways off. They're adding major new systems and not using the ready and willing beta testers at their disposal. This means they have to rely on internal testing.

...

Thats why I am asking for a year. I too hope, they take it slow and make it good. 2016 would be fine for me, but still I want to know. (Not that it would change much in my life if I did.)