sdj64

The Ultimate Jool 5 Challenge - 1.0 to 1.3

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@foobar Congratulations, you have completed the Jool 5 Challenge on Level 1!  Your mission was well executed and your crafts looked good.  I like the reuse of the command module for the Laythe lander and for the return to Kerbin.  You could have had more pictures, especially with the resource window open, but nothing looks too implausible.

 

@zeta function Congratulations, you have completed the Jool 5 Challenge on Level 2!  It's a great accomplishment for a new member of the forums.  I liked the Tylo lander, it's impressively small for two Kerbals.  Your Laythe lander was also a unique design.  Thank you for the descriptive pictures!

 

KSP 1.3 has rolled around and while KSP updates usually mean a new leaderboard and some new rules, not much has changed that can influence performance on this challenge.  The leaderboard will stay as it is.  At @JacobJHC's request, there is now a low cost sub-challenge to enjoy!

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Hi guys, here's a Jool5 plus Eeloo and Dres I did as part of the Caveman Evolved challenge.

The first album is kind of a mess because Imgur has started mixing up the order of the images, basically it's there to document the launch, Jool transfer, and Laythe (plus the first bit of Tylo) landing.

Second album starts with landed (relatively) safely on Tylo, and goes from there until Bop landing

Third album is Bop landing and home. If any images have been eaten and are needed, let me know and I can reupload.

Mods were BetterTimewarp and KER

Mission went as follows - Liftoff to LKO, used last gasp of big booster plus LV-N to get a Jool intercept.
Tylo gravicapture into the system, then a Laythe orbit.  Used very elliptical orbits everywhere for my main ship.  Laythe lander safely laneded, then back to orbit.  Kept the core of the lander, basically a service bay with a chair and reaction wheel, fuel can, and Spark, and docked it with a Tylo stage.  Took the whole mess over to Tylo and parked in elliptical orbit.  Detached the lander and an ion stage, used the ion stage to lower orbit until circular, then landed the LFO lander.

Second album took off Tylo, dropping stages (reversing direction at one point) and made it back to my ion tug with very little fuel left.  Used the ion tug to get back to high orbit, and grabbed some LFO from the main ship for Vall.  LFO landing on Vall, and back to Tylo orbit.  Moved the whole mess to Pol, landed on Pol and Bop using ions only.  Basically I would drag the big xenon can to a moon, leaving it in high orbit, and land on ions.  Lift off, meet the fuel can, and go back to the main ship.  Third album I did this on Pol, Bop, Eeloo and Dres, so I won't repeat myself any more.  Used LV-N powered main ship to get to Eeloo then Dres then home, left the ion part in orbit and brought Jeb down in the capsule.  All interplanetary flights were done with the main ship together and Jeb in his capsule.

 

 

 

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@Jetski Congratulations, you have completed the Jool 5 Challenge on Level 1!  I hadn't heard of the Caveman Evolved challenge before, so good job accomplishing that too.  Your ship seemed very efficient, doing the Jool 5 and more on just a single nuclear engine.

That nuclear engine appears to be clipped into a fuel tank, though (see image 15 of the last album).  I'm going to put you on the leaderboard even if it's clipped, because once, a very long time ago before I started running this challenge, I was in the exact same place.  Paying it forward.

Spoiler

3cBjFzg.png

 

Edited by sdj64

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On 6/8/2017 at 9:59 PM, something said:

So the rules state that clipping functional parts into each other is a no go but clipping structural parts is go. Now, while these are theoretically engine parts that do clip, it is pretty obvious it's just the structural polygons of the engines that do clip, while the functional polygons do not clip. Furthermore, clipping isn't used in this case to save space in order to put this vessel into a cargo bay (show the cargo bay to me, that contains this vessel) or to gain an otherwise undesired advantage - it's just for the better looks of the aft section.

Guess you gotta make implicit questions explicit to receive an answer? So, is it ok or not ok?

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@sdj64 thanks! I totally forgot about that engine clip - I'm not sure why I even offset it as that portion of the ship was not a lander, and it didn't make the slightest difference in performance :) I've been making a lot of NERVA landers lately, maybe just did it out of habit.  Anyways thanks for the spot on the board!

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4 hours ago, something said:

Guess you gotta make implicit questions explicit to receive an answer? So, is it ok or not ok?

Sorry I forgot to answer your question.  Your engines are fine.  I had to brighten the picture so I could see that they're attached to mk3 fuel tanks.
Cargo bays aren't the only advantage you can gain from clipping, for example that ship might be easier to fit behind an inflatable heatshield if it were clipped.

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17 hours ago, sdj64 said:

Sorry I forgot to answer your question.

No problem, happens all the time - especially if there are no question marks to indicate a question :wink:

Quote

Your engines are fine.  I had to brighten the picture so I could see that they're attached to mk3 fuel tanks.
Cargo bays aren't the only advantage you can gain from clipping, for example that ship might be easier to fit behind an inflatable heatshield if it were clipped.

Yeah, honestly, it was a quick and dirty screenshot which has this common behind-a-planet-sunlight-problem...probably should have written, they're attached to fuel tanks...

 

Well, judging from the screenshot I posted before, you can't really know it but I never really had a heat shield on my mind...

Spoiler

screenshot76.png

 

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Before I attempt this endeavor I would just like some clarification please. As no one has completed this challenge at Jeb's level, that is what I intend to try. What I need to know is:

To attain Jeb's level, I need a minimum of 5 unique landings with different Kerbals AND collect science, which gives me a score? So this needs to be a career game correct, or am I missing something?

Would it be modding to use something like [X]Science!  to help keep track of experiments accomplished? Since it really has no more advantage over assigning action groups to science equipment and using the data storage to collect all?

Thanks! Having just completed my first challenge (thanks @Jetski), I want to be sure I start this one with a well thought out strategy :wink:

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15 hours ago, zanie420 said:

Before I attempt this endeavor I would just like some clarification please. As no one has completed this challenge at Jeb's level, that is what I intend to try. What I need to know is:

To attain Jeb's level, I need a minimum of 5 unique landings with different Kerbals AND collect science, which gives me a score? So this needs to be a career game correct, or am I missing something?

Would it be modding to use something like [X]Science!  to help keep track of experiments accomplished? Since it really has no more advantage over assigning action groups to science equipment and using the data storage to collect all?

Thanks! Having just completed my first challenge (thanks @Jetski), I want to be sure I start this one with a well thought out strategy :wink:

You're correct, but you can also use Science mode, or even cheat yourself the science/funds before the mission if you want to.  Some people in prior versions have completed the mission on their main career saves, and even made money through contracts or science return with strategies.

[X]Science is a great idea, since it does not have any additional science experiments beyond the stock ones, it just keeps track of them.  This would still be considered a stock entry.

 

On 6/27/2017 at 1:57 PM, something said:

No problem, happens all the time - especially if there are no question marks to indicate a question :wink:

Yeah, honestly, it was a quick and dirty screenshot which has this common behind-a-planet-sunlight-problem...probably should have written, they're attached to fuel tanks...

 

Well, judging from the screenshot I posted before, you can't really know it but I never really had a heat shield on my mind...

*image*

I really like the sci-fi aesthetic of your ship.  From the radiators I assume you'll use ISRU?  I can't imagine trying to land that thing.

 

Also a random tip for everyone attempting KSP challenges: 1.3 added an ambient light adjustment setting, in the pause menu.  If you're taking screenshots at night, even 10-15% helps greatly to let people see what's going on!

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I am happy you do like the vessel design. Took me some minutes to assemble it in a way that should work partially...

Well that vessel does indeed have an ISRU unit on board. Landing on Minmus worked pretty well. It does have some aerospikes on the ventral side which make it kinda VTOL in low gravity...you just need enough fuel to soft land it. The rest is done by ISRU. Efficient take off is another story, though.

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Hmmm, looking at the prohibited mods, I'm guessing Orion isn't allowed? Could I use it just to get everything to orbit?

Could I use the nuclear engine from Modular rocket systems though? It's basically a more powerful (Around 4x more powerful) 2.5 meter Nerv.

And I'm guessing the reactors from Near future electrical are out, what about Near future solar?

Edited by Spaceception

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@sdj64, can you clear this vessel for the challenge for me please?

Here is the list of mods I want to use in my 'stock' run:

  • [X] Science
  • BetterBurnTime
  • Kerbal Alarm Clock
  • Kerbal Engineer Redux
  • MechJeb2
  • Precise Node
  • Transfer Window Planner

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7 hours ago, Spaceception said:

Hmmm, looking at the prohibited mods, I'm guessing Orion isn't allowed? Could I use it just to get everything to orbit?

Could I use the nuclear engine from Modular rocket systems though? It's basically a more powerful (Around 4x more powerful) 2.5 meter Nerv.

And I'm guessing the reactors from Near future electrical are out, what about Near future solar?

Good catch, I will add Orion to the prohibited list.  

MRS is allowed, so the nuclear engine you plan to use is fine.  It's basically just a part count reduction compared to 4 stock ones.  

Near Future Solar is allowed, its panels aren't significantly higher EC/ton than stock ones, there's just more variety.

 

1 hour ago, zanie420 said:

@sdj64, can you clear this vessel for the challenge for me please?

Here is the list of mods I want to use in my 'stock' run:

  • [X] Science
  • BetterBurnTime
  • Kerbal Alarm Clock
  • Kerbal Engineer Redux
  • MechJeb2
  • Precise Node
  • Transfer Window Planner

Your list of mods looks good, and you're correct that all would be allowed in a stock submission.  Your craft has some clipping, the long mk2 adaptors and mk2 bicouplers are clipping into the central mk2 tank, move them out a bit and you'll be good to go.

Your cargo bay doesn't seem to have clipping, but don't forget an ore tank!

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Oh crap :/ I have Kerbal atomics installed, so the stock and MRS nuke engines use liquid hydrogen instead of liquid fuel, I could use the stock tanks but the hydrogen boils off over time, so if I used them all my fuel would be gone by the time I get there. So I'd have to use the included tanks, ut I saw that the mod is prohibited :( I'll look at other engines in my list.

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@sdj64here is my mission log for my run at Jeb level with low mass and cost :)
 

 

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My Shuttle Challenge Jool mission has just been officially upgraded...

167dd119d308.png

Yeah, probably the most insane choice of lander for this place (it's not even VTOL, if only on Pol).

Heh, there is even no proper mothership on this mission, just the two shuttles, both landing on different moons. And you can totally blame Speeding Mullet for making me to design these shuttles.

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@zanie420 Congratulations, you have completed the Jool 5 Challenge on Jeb's Level!  Your plane is impressively small for all that it can do, fitting in an ISRU and all of the science equipment (but minimal power generation - it must have taken a long time to fill up!)  56927 is the second highest amount of science points ever collected in a Jool 5, no doubt because you were able to visit so many biomes.  You also are the current leader for the low mass and low cost challenges!

 

@Alchemist Great to see you're doing a Jool 5 with the HRO shuttle.  Is that Tylo? and did you just land on the tail and flop over to horizontal?

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7 minutes ago, sdj64 said:

@zanie420 Congratulations, you have completed the Jool 5 Challenge on Jeb's Level!  Your plane is impressively small for all that it can do, fitting in an ISRU and all of the science equipment (but minimal power generation - it must have taken a long time to fill up!)  56927 is the second highest amount of science points ever collected in a Jool 5, no doubt because you were able to visit so many biomes.  You also are the current leader for the low mass and low cost challenges!

Excellent news! I appreciate the effort it took to look through my entire mission album, being about 300 images! I will proudly claim my badges now that I have your ruling :) Is there a different badge for low mass? Just curious. I look forward to seeing my name on the leader board as well. Thanks again @sdj64

Edited by zanie420

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3 minutes ago, zanie420 said:

Excellent news! I appreciate the effort it took to look through my entire mission album, being about 300 images! I will proudly claim my badges now that I have your ruling :) Is there a different badge for low mass? Just curious. I look forward to seeing my name on the leader board as well. Thanks again @sdj64

Yes, the circular feather badge in the OP is meant for low mass contenders.  I don't have one for low cost, but let me see what I can do.

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4 minutes ago, sdj64 said:

@Alchemist Great to see you're doing a Jool 5 with the HRO shuttle.  Is that Tylo? and did you just land on the tail and flop over to horizontal?

Yes, this is the very place that determines possibility of doing it with this kind of craft. Went a bit too tight on delta v (left the second ship in elliptic orbit, and even didn't take 100% LFO on separation, so there was some reserve to increase delta v - but there is also the question of getting back to a refueling site, given the second shuttle works just as a tanker after leaving all the detachable stuff on Laythe) and this kind of gravity is a bit too much beyond my piloting capabilities (next time I decide to do this in this kind of gravity, I'll write autopilot script, at least for the final maneuver)... Plenty of reloads

And it doesn't land on tail, it flips a few meters above ground (preferably to make an additional softening boost at some 30-40 degrees pitch; gaining some horizontal speed is not a problem, but better to account for that on descent and not to completely kill horizontal speed before this last maneuver), there is a secondary set of LFO RCS to perform this maneuver quickly and with enough control (also flip-protection if you bounce on touchdown)

This maneuver works perfectly on the Mun and should be quite doable on Vall, just Tylo makes it all a bit way too fast-paced for my piloting capabilities

Anyway, there will be a video of the landing. (Although, a proper demonstration of how it works will probably be when I get to Vall, since it's not that crazy gravity.)

 

By the way, since Pol-Tylo transfer gave me almost polar orbit, I've aimed for this. Flew over and had to drive a bit from the landing site after getting some fuel, but here we are

5d433ecee20c.png

 

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Are you still accepting submissions recorded in 1.2? I started this challenge in March and recorded video up to Vall then got so busy with work I only just got round to finishing the challenge and decided to not update to 1.3 until I finished it (in case it broke anything). So I now have footage of whole challenge I need to splice together and speed up into one video and then upload.

 

Plus I think imgur changed their album embeds so many of the albums are no longer visible on this thread, not sure if there is a solution but thought I'd point this out as now I can't see many of the other entries.
See more here Imgur albums are broken again

Edited by Kerolyov

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On 7/15/2017 at 5:28 PM, Kerolyov said:

Are you still accepting submissions recorded in 1.2? I started this challenge in March and recorded video up to Vall then got so busy with work I only just got round to finishing the challenge and decided to not update to 1.3 until I finished it (in case it broke anything). So I now have footage of whole challenge I need to splice together and speed up into one video and then upload.

 

Plus I think imgur changed their album embeds so many of the albums are no longer visible on this thread, not sure if there is a solution but thought I'd point this out as now I can't see many of the other entries.
See more here Imgur albums are broken again

Yes, submissions in 1.2 are still welcome.  There weren't many gameplay-altering changes from 1.2 to 1.3 so you'll be on an even footing with everyone.

 

Wow, that's unfortunate and looks even worse than past times Imgur has broken on the forums, you used to be able to use the "inspect element" thing to find the url of broken albums.  In the thread you linked, @Red Iron Crown was able to edit posts manually to get the images back, but understandably everyone will be asking for this.  I think it's affected the last 5 or so pages of the Jool 5 thread, AKA about everyone who submitted in 1.3.

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Thanks @sdj64 I'm trying to edit the video down, got it down to 44 mins so far, is there anything you don't need to see?  I've already cut some of the fiddling with nodes and set the footage to x10 speed

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2 hours ago, Kerolyov said:

Thanks @sdj64 I'm trying to edit the video down, got it down to 44 mins so far, is there anything you don't need to see?  I've already cut some of the fiddling with nodes and set the footage to x10 speed

You can cut out planning maneuvers, as long as you have some footage of executing them.  Also if it's clear where you're going, such as during a long timewarp or on an easy landing on Bop, Pol, or Vall, the middle of that can be cut out.  But any time fuel is tight, piloting is difficult, or the sequence of actions is confusing should obviously stay in your video.

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