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[1.2] Galileo's Planet Pack (development thread) [v0.9]


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1 hour ago, Fobok said:

Sorry. I'd offer but I wouldn't have a clue what I was doing. 

 

40 minutes ago, Shadriss said:

Ditto, unfortunately. As much as I like doing this kind of work, without at least some basic directions, I'd be lost. I'd love to learn, but not at the expense of possible slowing this down.

Essentially you'll be creating MS Paint art in a new layer over the height map with a modest array of colors and each color represents a biome and fills in the areas you expect to be that biome; Or with an effects technique, you convert the gray gradient of the heightmap into the same thing. Both methods have their up and their down. :P

2 hours ago, ProtoJeb21 said:

Can I have a DL for the science def config? I don't have a GitHub account to add defs for Tellumo.

You can open the cfg right on the GitHub page then drag-select and copy everything out into your favorite text editor. I hope it's Notepad++, it's the bee's knees for lightweight + code highlighting.

I'd offer to do biome maps too but my hands are a little full irl. I can spare the time and effort to code, but not to produce graphics. ^^;

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15 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

 I can spare the time and effort to code, but not to produce graphics. ^^;

That's funny to me, since I consider graphics to be relatively easy to do, and coding is something that happens to other people. I spent about two months making custom versions of all the BattleTech Clan Crests and the IS Polities, and I think those turned out rather well. Considering this wouldn't take that same level of precision, I can only guess (emphasis on guess there...) that it would be somewhat simpler, especially if all it would be is an effects layer based on the greyscale heightmap, like you suggest.

Either way...

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Hopefully I did mention I have my hands full with graphics. I'm a pretty quirky person, indeed, but one of my sadder quirks is that I lack a lot in speed as an artist. And in some perfectionism I'd probably make the biome maps fully manually. The downside of the effects technique option is the generated map may need a lot of refinement.

Edited by JadeOfMaar
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36 minutes ago, JadeOfMaar said:

Hopefully I did mention I have my hands full with graphics. I'm a pretty quirky person, indeed, but one of my sadder quirks is that I lack a lot in speed as an artist. And in some perfectionism I'd probably make the biome maps fully manually. The downside of the effects technique option is the generated map may need a lot of refinement.

I do like the idea of doing it manually but with 26 celestial bodies to be done, having the biomes in their general vicinity is perfectly acceptable lol 

Edited by Galileo
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Eeffect-chain methods would be quite appropriate given the number of bodies but I can't help but be fussy regardless, especially for Gael and Tellumo. I'm trying an experiment now with a planet texture I randomly googled a few days ago. It's coming along good and quick actually...

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19 hours ago, Fobok said:

Sorry. I'd offer but I wouldn't have a clue what I was doing. 

19 hours ago, Shadriss said:

Ditto, unfortunately. As much as I like doing this kind of work, without at least some basic directions, I'd be lost. I'd love to learn, but not at the expense of possible slowing this down.

Third time's a charm.  I, too, would love to learn but it would be from scratch.  Education is probably not what you want to get into at this stage of development.

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Just now, Brigadier said:

Third time's a charm.  I, too, would love to learn but it would be from scratch.  Education is probably not what you want to get into at this stage of development.

I can probably make a thread that can teach how to make one. My technique is quite a bit different than others but it allows for more precise biomes and its very simple. I dont use effects just the paint brush and the color swatch. When I get some time ill do this. It wont take too long. 

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Just now, Galileo said:

I can probably make a thread that can teach how to make one. My technique is quite a bit different than others but it allows for more precise biomes and its very simple. I dont use effects just the paint brush and the color swatch. When I get some time ill do this. It wont take too long. 

That would be fantastic.  I'm sure you would get quite a few people who would give it a try regardless of method (some of them would actually do a good job :cool:).  I speak for myself but I think we (the big 'we' not the Royal 'we') just want to help you deliver what appears to be an amazing addition to the KSP ecosystem (hey, there's a suggestion for your system name :P).

In any event, it potentially reduces your workload but you'd still have to review any submissions for correctness and completeness.

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1 hour ago, Brigadier said:

In any event, it potentially reduces your workload but you'd still have to review any submissions for correctness and completeness.

True, but it would allow him multiple options to best suit what he wants, which is still much faster then developing from scratch. :)

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1 hour ago, Brigadier said:

That would be fantastic.  I'm sure you would get quite a few people who would give it a try regardless of method (some of them would actually do a good job :cool:).  I speak for myself but I think we (the big 'we' not the Royal 'we') just want to help you deliver what appears to be an amazing addition to the KSP ecosystem (hey, there's a suggestion for your system name :P).

In any event, it potentially reduces your workload but you'd still have to review any submissions for correctness and completeness.

46 minutes ago, Shadriss said:

True, but it would allow him multiple options to best suit what he wants, which is still much faster then developing from scratch. :)

 

 

Here you guys go

 

 

Edited by Galileo
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Quick tutorial was quick. In any case... do pass me a reference map @Galileo and I'll start on it, preferably of Gael and maybe a list of the biomes you want. I've already written all the science definitions except for the Mystery Goo but I'm itchy for what biomes will officially be present. The biome config snippet is welcome and enough for me to roll with too.

I technically would be starting a second biome map by now if I didn't have other immediate tasks. :) Serious spoiler is serious.

Oh yeah. @ProtoJeb21 did you get to start on Tellumo? I'm eager to see what you come up with. :D

Spoiler

Situation: Seismic Scan while landed on Gael

The results are nothing special but that means Gael will not swing her hips here and destroy things.

 

Edited by JadeOfMaar
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Thanks for the tut, Gal. As Jade points out, though, we kinda need the base materials to work from. PM a link to one or two of the planets, and I'll see what I come up with.

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Atmosphere Update...

I've done some preliminary work on the atmospheres and I'd like to provide a report on the current status.  The following was originally composed as a personal communication between @Galileo and I, so some knowledge about the layout of the solar system and the properties of the celestial bodies is assumed.  Readers here will be at a disadvantage by not knowing this, but you should still find it interesting.

I've set up my atmosphere spreadsheets but I still haven't made all the decisions needed to work up the models.  There are a couple places where I'm at a crossroads and unsure which direction to take.  I'd like to hear your overall impressions of the plan, but I'm particularly interested in hearing your opinions on the direction we should take with some of these.  Rather than making a decision based on what is most scientifically viable, it might be best to make the decisions based on providing the most diversity in terms of game play challenges.

So far I've identified the bodies most likely to have atmospheres.  I've also computed their effective temperatures, which is the black body temperature taking into account albedo but excluding warming due to greenhouse effect.  A body with a thick atmosphere and abundant greenhouse gases could be much warmer than its effective temperature (e.g. Venus).  Much of what I need to compute an atmosphere comes from the body's physical characteristics, which I already have based on the work completed to date.  The two things that are still undecided are (1) the atmospheric pressure at the surface, and (2) the average molecular weight of the gases.  I don't need to know the atmosphere's composition per se, but it's the composition that determines the molecular weight.

Niven (effective temperature 304 K) - I'm thinking of giving Niven a Duna-like atmosphere.  It's bigger than Duna and should, therefore, retain a thicker atmosphere, but it's also closer to the Sun where the more intense solar wind should strip some of the atmosphere away.  I also don't think Niven is big enough to have the thick atmosphere needed to produce a Venus-like run away greenhouse effect.  I envision Niven as a hot world with a predominately carbon dioxide atmosphere and a surface pressure of about 0.1 atmosphere (a little greater than Duna), though I could go a little higher if we want to make parachutes more effective.

Gael (250 K) - There's not much debate here, Gael's atmosphere is effectively an exact duplicate of Kerbin's (which is based on Earth's atmosphere).  I'll probably use the Kerbin model I developed for my Realistic Atmospheres mod, with perhaps a little tweaking.

Tellumo (201 K) - I'm not sure what to do here because I have no real-life examples to look to for guidance (there are no super Earths in our solar system).  Given Tellumo's size, the atmosphere will undoubtedly be massive.  The planet's effective temperature is low, but I think I can give it enough of a greenhouse effect to at least warm up the lower latitudes to above freezing temperatures.  In the cfg file I noticed that you have "oxygen = true".  Is that your intent?  If so, then obviously oxygen is present.  Clearly there will also be a large amount of nitrogen.  I think the carbon cycle on Tellumo would have removed most of the carbon dioxide; however, given the planet's enormous size, I suspect that volcanism pumps out enough CO2 that it's still a significant constituent.  Tellumo is also big enough to retain light gases, though I really don't want it's atmosphere to contain large amounts of hydrogen and helium (we have Catullus for that).  But it might have lighter gases like methane, ammonia, and neon. Overall, I suspect that the average molecular weight will be close to that of Earth's atmosphere.  I'm thinking of giving Tellumo a surface pressure of at least 10 atmospheres (I just can't see how it would be anything less, and perhaps much more).  I've also given Tellumo a surface gravity of 1.9 g, so I think that landing on Tellumo is likely a one-way trip.

Gratian (146 K) - This planet started out a bit bigger than Gael but I sized it down to a bit smaller to bring its moon closer.  I've given it the density of a rocky planet, rather than an icy planet as would be expected farther from the Sun.  I'm undecided as to what kind of atmosphere to give it.  I think the constituents would be nitrogen and carbon dioxide, but I don't know the proportions.  I think that most of the outer moons/planets will have predominately nitrogen atmospheres, but those are icy bodies.  Being a large rocky planet, I think that volcanism would have pumped out quite a bit of CO2 and, without oceans, I don't think there would be a mechanism to remove it.  Without the CO2, I think a surface pressure of about 0.5 atmospheres is reasonable.  However, I could see it possibly having a much thicker atmosphere of perhaps 2 atm with 75% CO2.  The thinner atmosphere would be similar to Laythe, while the thicker atmosphere would be somewhere between Kerbin and Eve.

Otho (107 K), Gauss (74K), and Nero (53 K) - The atmospheres of gas giants is pretty straightforward.  There's really nothing here to discuss, I'll just do my normal thing.

Augustus (112 K) - This is the farthest body from the Sun to which I gave a mostly rocky density (similar to Io and Europa).  I have some of the same problems here as I do with Gratian.  Is the atmosphere mostly nitrogen, or is there a lot of carbon dioxide and other heavy gases from volcanism?  In either case, Augustus is not especially big so I think it's atmosphere will be thin.  I'm thinking about 0.05 atmosphere (a little lower than Duna).

Catullus (77 K) - The size and temperature at Catullus means that it should be able to retain lightweight gases like hydrogen and helium.  I also made it an icy body, so if any volcanism exists, it will be cryovolcanism (i.e. no heavyweight gases like CO2).  I see it having an atmosphere with a composition much like a gas giant.  I'm sure it will be a very deep atmosphere, so it might make for some interesting clouds formations floating high above the surface.  Although Catullus has a very large radius, its low density resulted in me giving it a surface gravity of only 0.9 g (about 1/2 that of Tellumo).  I really have no idea what the surface atmospheric pressure should be, but I'm leaning toward 5 atm (1/2 Tellumo).  This pressure and gravity should make getting off the surface of Catullus feasible, but its very deep atmosphere (probably hundreds of kilometers) will make for a very different and unique challenge.

Tarsiss (76 K) and Hadrian (47 K) - I'm sure that nitrogen with be the primary constituent of all the remaining atmospheres, so atmospheric composition is no longer an issue the rest of the way.  The moons Tarsiss and Hadrian are almost twins it terms of size and temperatures.  I'm thinking we can go one of two ways.  First, I think we could have an atmosphere that's just dense enough to produce some entry effects (i.e. faint plasma trail) but too thin for parachutes to work.  The other possibility is give one of these a Titan-like atmosphere.  If we were to turn one of these into Titan, I vote for Hadrian (since Tarsiss is already right next to a moon with a thick atmosphere).

Hox (45 K) and Leto (36 K) - Again we have two near twins.  I think that both of these planets will have atmospheres, but very thin (e.g. Triton and Pluto).  The atmospheres I give them will probably be very minimal in terms of the effects they produce on a spacecraft, but it might be neat to tinker with the visual effects to give the planets a faint airglow (kind of like this image).

 

Edited by OhioBob
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5 minutes ago, Fobok said:

I'm not sure what to suggest for the unanswered questions, but I can say that this sounds like a very fun system to explore. Especially Catallus and Tellumo.

I hope Tellumo is a one way trip especially for those who want to colonize a new planet and use life support mods. Think about the logistics of getting supplies to your kerbals.. sound like an awful time, but awesome

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@OhioBob: Just finished the Biome Map for Leto and sent it on to Gal. Looking at it, there are several areas that look like they may have had flowing water and the like on the surface at some point. Not sure if that fits well with any RL data given it's position in the system, but I named several of the Biomes to reflect that look. Names are easy to change, but since the presence or lack of water MAY have an affect on atmosphere, even a thin one like you are discussing, I figured you should know.

@Nhawks17: No clue off the top of my head, but I seem to recall somewhere in the Dev thread (?) that it pulls the topography straight off the the heightmap files, so it would kind of follow that everything pulls from them. I *think* Kopernicus planets are basically auto-supported, but don't quote me on that... so to speak.

Edited by Shadriss
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46 minutes ago, Shadriss said:

@Nhawks17: No clue off the top of my head, but I seem to recall somewhere in the Dev thread (?) that it pulls the topography straight off the the heightmap files, so it would kind of follow that everything pulls from them. I *think* Kopernicus planets are basically auto-supported, but don't quote me on that... so to speak.

If not, that'll be the first thing I'll figure out :wink: Can't play without some ScanSat

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1 hour ago, Nhawks17 said:

If not, that'll be the first thing I'll figure out :wink: Can't play without some ScanSat

ARGH! You QUOTED me! I said not to do that! :)

Also, I was just reading through the SCANSat release thread, and DMagic specifically said that it works with ALL (including non-stock) planets. THat was about 8 hours ago, so I'm going to assume that nothing has changed since then. My GUESS is as I said before - the radar altimitry from the heightmap texture and the biome map from the biome texture.

Edited by Shadriss
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1 hour ago, Shadriss said:

ARGH! You QUOTED me! I said not to do that! :)

Hehe, whoopsies :P 

1 hour ago, Shadriss said:

Also, I was just reading through the SCANSat release thread, and DMagic specifically said that it works with ALL (including non-stock) planets. THat was about 8 hours ago, so I'm going to assume that nothing has changed since then. My GUESS is as I said before - the radar altimitry from the heightmap texture and the biome map from the biome texture.

Sweet! Thanks for looking!

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I just watched the latest squadcast. Among the other cool info, (there's a bit about biome maps in there, colour choice and antialiasing problems and so on), there's a new wrinkle that will have to be considered: The new commnet now talks to tracking stations spread out over the surface of Kerbin, rather than straight to the planet. It seems the planet is covered from all directions, including the poles, but these tracking stations are physical objects (anomalies) and have their own traits, including signal strength varieties. So you'll likely have to place these on Gael manually.. once it's revealed how to do so. 

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I imagine it would be done in the same general manner as the buildings and anomalies that currently exist. No reason why they would reinvent the wheel (so to speak... since they did just that w/ 1.0) for this, especially since other mods have been making use of the ability for alternate KSP locations and the like. The only real difference will be whatever building model they use for the stations, though it wouldn't surprise me if they just recycle the tracking station at various levels for the various signal strengths.

On another front - Gal, if you have any other planets you want me to work biomes on, I'll be more than happy to continue contributing... it really was far simpler than I expected.

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I almost gave up on putting scatter objects in this planet pack....vpcTNjM.png

I'm really glad I didn't

Oh! 

And Jeb told me to tell you that he wishes you were here at Lake Tellumo. 5wh0n77.png

Ok one more..  A Gratian sun set SQnKOPE.png

Edited by Galileo
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