[Minimum KSP version - 1.12] Kerbal Inventory System (KIS) v1.29

[Jaburtino]

On 9/26/2017 at 1:45 AM, IgorZ said:

Given you had this issue in the previous version, I'd suggest a mods conflict. try removing everything except the KIS and its dependents. If the issue still persists, share a log and a short video of what you're doing.

I removed all the other mods and it still didn't work. Something odd happened, though - one part detached but then sat on the ground wobbling with weird physics. I can't reproduce that detachment or the wobbling effect. After that I still could not detach or pick up any other objects. 

Here's the log:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Eq79Dm-LSeMmoe7YxGcF4XFw07sUW1zjEX9cAPlAOG8/edit?usp=sharing

I don't think a video is going to show very much, it's as if everything is working properly, I just can't left-click on objects while holding G, H, or X.

Edited September 28, 2017 by Jaburtino

[IgorZ]

4 hours ago, Jaburtino said:

I removed all the other mods and it still didn't work. Something odd happened, though - one part detached but then sat on the ground wobbling with weird physics. I can't reproduce that detachment or the wobbling effect. After that I still could not detach or pick up any other objects. 

Here's the log:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Eq79Dm-LSeMmoe7YxGcF4XFw07sUW1zjEX9cAPlAOG8/edit?usp=sharing

I don't think a video is going to show very much, it's as if everything is working properly, I just can't left-click on objects while holding G, H, or X.

Well, I don't see anything unusual or suspicious in the log. Are you playing on a laptop or a desktop?

[IgorZ]

18 hours ago, wile1411 said:

This probably falls into the  - am I understanding / using this correctly? category and definitely not a 'there is a problem' question/post.
The SC-62 container is 1.00t. Currently the volume of the container is updated as parts are dragged into it. Is the mass of the container ALSO supposed to increase as parts are added?  I only noticed as I hit the upper limit with the number of CB1 slabs my kerbal could carry, but when I threw another 3 into a container, I was able to carry twice as much at the cost of only 1kg. (see pictures below)

Is this just an abstraction of carried on pockets (300L limitation) versus what they can carry on their back? (3000kg limit)

Okay. So, I tested it and figured out it works as intended. First of all, there is no mass limit for the inventories. It applies on the carriable inventories as well. You cannot lift up a part heavier than 1t if you have just one kerbal around, but if you have two (and your screenshot shows it) you can lift up 2t. I.e. you can load up to 2t of stuff into SC-62 and equip it on the back of the kerbal. Then, you can load additional 300 L into the personal inventory which adds another 900kg (3x of CB1) of mass to the mighty kerbal. While it looks unreasonable, the math is correct.

What is not correct is the volume of the CB-1 part model. If you take a look at the model, you'll notice that it's about half of the volume of SC-62, and there is no way how 3 such parts can fit into this container! Not to mention the personal inventory: the concrete foundation is bigger than the kerbal model itself. While it would not be possible IRL, in KIS it is possible due to the volume override in CB1 part: its hardcoded volume is set to 100L. If we lookup the density of the real concrete, we'll found that the "heavy" kinds of it has density of appx 2500-3000kg per a cubic meter, and 100L is 0.1 cubic meter. I.e. the mass of the foundation of 300kg looks pretty realistic given the hardcoded volume. What doesn't look realistic, is the size of the model: it must be several times smaller, but in this case usability of the part will be very limited. So what we have here is a sacrifice of realism in favor of the game experience.

But I'm open to the discussion! Let's figure out how we can get it fixed,. There are two options:

1. Remove the hardcoded volume setting and bring the mass part to the actual value. The model volume is 409L, so the mas is expected to be about 1022t-1227t. No doubt, such a part will be barely useful since a single kerbal won't be able to handle it.
2. Scale down the model so that it fits the declared volume of 100L. The model will have to be scaled down to 62.8% of its current size. And if we do it, it will look like this:

Spoiler

However, whatever we do it won't fix another inconsistency: the volume of the kerbal's backpack. Remember, it's 300L? IRL people call the backpack "big" if it's only 32L.

Thoughts?

[cyberKerb]

 

5 hours ago, IgorZ said:

But I'm open to the discussion! Let's figure out how we can get it fixed,. There are two options:

1. Remove the hardcoded volume setting and bring the mass part to the actual value. The model volume is 409L, so the mas is expected to be about 1022t-1227t. No doubt, such a part will be barely useful since a single kerbal won't be able to handle it.
2. Scale down the model so that it fits the declared volume of 100L. The model will have to be scaled down to 62.8% of its current size. And if we do it, it will look like this:

However, whatever we do it won't fix another inconsistency: the volume of the kerbal's backpack. Remember, it's 300L? IRL people call the backpack "big" if it's only 32L.

Thoughts?

Personally, I can live with 300L backpack in the Kerbal world. Reducing it starts to move the gameplay toward the tedium of too many repeat trips, so for that sake alone, I'd ask for it to remain, although other might disagree?

I like option 2 for the CB1. It's size doesn't really make much baring on its usability - I use it to connect ladders / scaffolding as well as connecting pipes and other stuff around a base. I'll use a test world and give a 62.6 rescale to the CB1 a go in my game as see what it looks like next to other parts I regularly use it with to see if anything looks 'off', but at first glance it looks fine - 'cute' even (for a block of concrete)  

Edited September 28, 2017 by wile1411

[kcs123]

There is very thin line between seeking for realism and fun gameplay and game engine limits. Sometimes it is better to sacrifice a bit of realism for more fluid and less tedious gameplay. So, +1 on @wile1411 thoughts.

 

[B-STRK]

Seconding @wile1411, although re: CB1, as the usable real estate across its surface would also shrink, it might be harder to cram more than one part onto it (e.g, a connector port, a probe core, a battery, a solar panel, a lamp post...). It would be missed when the CB forms the foundation of, say, a small and isolated scientific instrument package left on the Mun, or the baseplate for a detached solar-charged lamppost on the Minnmus flats, that sort of thing. 

I would assume surface attach to terrain breaking force will remain unchanged with the resize?

[cyberKerb]

Just tried the reduced size and it seems fine from an aesthetic POV. It reminds me of the base that comes with pathfinder and its inbuilt plugs and pipes, but obviously this would be DIY.

[Wyzard]

8 hours ago, IgorZ said:

However, whatever we do it won't fix another inconsistency: the volume of the kerbal's backpack. Remember, it's 300L? IRL people call the backpack "big" if it's only 32L.

Maybe reduce the volume that a kerbal can carry to something more realistic, but provide a way to access the contents of an SC-62 while it's being carried on a kerbal's back (like an actual backpack).

(Though I suspect the SC-62's 1000L volume is also unrealistic…)

[Jaburtino]

10 hours ago, IgorZ said:

Well, I don't see anything unusual or suspicious in the log. Are you playing on a laptop or a desktop?

Yeah, it looks to me like the log isn't registering when I left click, which is what appears to be happening in gameplay as well. It's as if holding G, H, or X just disables the left mouse button, or like I'm clicking into empty air. That's only the case when trying to use these KIS features though.

It's a laptop - Asus, windows.

[IgorZ]

1 hour ago, Jaburtino said:

Yeah, it looks to me like the log isn't registering when I left click, which is what appears to be happening in gameplay as well. It's as if holding G, H, or X just disables the left mouse button, or like I'm clicking into empty air. That's only the case when trying to use these KIS features though.

It's a laptop - Asus, windows.

Do you use a real mouse or a touchpad? If the latter, please, try using a mouse. There were Unity issues reported on the laptops with touchpads.

2 hours ago, Wyzard said:

Maybe reduce the volume that a kerbal can carry to something more realistic, but provide a way to access the contents of an SC-62 while it's being carried on a kerbal's back (like an actual backpack).

In fact, you cannot access the backpack yourselves until you put it on the ground. Same with the SC-62 container. However, the restriction is purely technical: it's tricky to manage the inventory state when it's equipped.

[Roy Batty]

I don't see how I could possibly be the only person with this issue, but I have researched it on this thread before posting it, and there doesn't appear to be a mention of it.
I'm a longtime user of KIS but recently upgraded to KSP 1.3. Something I've been doing for years doesn't seem to be working any longer:

Tweakscaling ILC-18K container to 3.75 meters results in not being able to right-click on the container during EVA's. The context menu that provides the Inventory button will not appear no matter how close or at what angle I try from.

KIS version: 1.7
TweakScale version: 2.36

Steps I have taken to solve my issue:

• Confirmed that any size above the standard size results in this bug.
• Sizes below the standard size do not cause the bug.
• Deleted my entire game, re-installed, and installed only Tweakscale and KIS. Same issue.
• Confirmed that nothing else except this issue is happening. I.E., as long as I don't increase the size of ILC-18K, I can fully utilize every feature of KIS in EVA or design mode.
• Accessing the inventory from design mode is never an issue, regardless of scale change.

Since this issue hasn't been reported, I'm going to assume I'm doing something wrong. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Edited September 30, 2017 by Roy Batty

[IgorZ]

13 hours ago, Roy Batty said:

Tweakscaling ILC-18K container to 3.75 meters results in not being able to right-click on the container during EVA's. The context menu that provides the Inventory button will not appear no matter how close or at what angle I try from.

This issue has actually been discussed in the last two pages of the thread   In nutshell, it's as it is for now: you cannot make parts that are bigger than 2m in any direction (from the center of mass). There is a feature request pending to address it. People were reporting that they were able to overcome this limitation somehow (using another mod?). I cannot give any suggestions here. The KIS code is using the standard game distance limitation for the part menus, which is 2m for now.

Edited October 1, 2017 by IgorZ

[Roy Batty]

3 hours ago, IgorZ said:

This issue has actually been discussed in the last two pages of the thread   In nutshell, it's as it is for now: you cannot make parts that are bigger than 2m in any direction (from the center of mass). There is a feature request pending to address it. People were reporting that they were able to overcome this limitation somehow (using another mod?). I cannot give any suggestions here. The KIS code is using the standard game distance limitation for the part menus, which is 2m for now.

Thanks for the quick response. I guess when I said "researched the issue first" I meant that I used the forum search feature and "Tweakscale" as the search term. Nothing about this seemed to turn up, but then again I've never used this forum until now -- never had any serious issues until now.

Yes, this is *serious*.  

[Aelfhe1m]

@IgorZ I just got around to re-testing with KIS 1.7 to try and narrow down why the patch I use was working in my game and I've found that it ALSO works with just KIS 1.7 installed but only on the 2nd and subsequent EVA. On first exiting the vessel the inventory can only be opened from extremely close to the centre of mass of the container but if you then re-board and then exit the vessel again, the interaction range increases to whatever was specified in the patch. This behaviour seems to reset itself when switching to another vessel (or EVA Kerbal) out of physics range.

Test set-up:

Spoiler

 

• fresh clean install of KSP 1.3.0
• install KIS 1.7 and dependencies
• add this patch to GameData

• 
  @KISConfig:AFTER[KIS]
  {
  	@EvaPickup
  	{
  		@maxDistance = 20
  	}
  }
  

  Load KSP and start a new sandbox game

• Build and launch simple test craft

• On 1st exit Bill is unable to access the container from the ladder

• 

• Board and EVA again - Bill can now open inventory on both containers.

• 

• EDIT: Note PAW menu was closed before re-boarding and not opened again until after Bill was on EVA again. Not affected by whether PAW is accessed from on board the vessel or not.

 

Edited October 1, 2017 by Aelfhe1m

[IgorZ]

@Aelfhe1m, the issue is confirmed. I've fixed for the KIS 1.8 (issue).

[Jaburtino]

On 9/28/2017 at 2:48 PM, IgorZ said:

Do you use a real mouse or a touchpad? If the latter, please, try using a mouse. There were Unity issues reported on the laptops with touchpads.

I don't know what that means, but using a real mouse works. Thanks!

[IgorZ]

57 minutes ago, Jaburtino said:

I don't know what that means, but using a real mouse works. Thanks!

It's a known bug of Unity: they could not detect some touchpad events if there were keyboard keys pressed. I'm pretty much sure they have fixed it in the recent versions, but KSP uses version 5.4.0 which was released on 07/28/2016.

[Brigadier]

On 9/28/2017 at 11:48 AM, IgorZ said:

Do you use a real mouse or a touchpad? If the latter, please, try using a mouse.

I would but my wife would freak out if it got away from my desk.  That, and I find real mice object to being swished and tapped on the head.

[Starslinger999]

On 10/2/2017 at 1:16 AM, Brigadier said:

I would but my wife would freak out if it got away from my desk.  That, and I find real mice object to being swished and tapped on the head.

I see what you did there....

Also, is KIS 1.3.1 compatible? Not to be a pest or anything.

[Aelfhe1m]

43 minutes ago, Starslinger999 said:

Also, is KIS 1.3.1 compatible?

KIS 1.7 works fine in KSP 1.3.1.

[Mukita12]

so how do i Put stuff in my inventory

I kinda suck at this mod

[Bottle Rocketeer 500]

@Mukita12 Grab it (G) and drag it (while holding G) into an empty space in the inventory, I once did this with a rolling box while setting up an SEP on my Apollo-11 style mission. And that was my first time using KIS. You could've just used the in game book.

[Mukita12]

22 minutes ago, Bottle Rocketeer 500 said:

@Mukita12 Grab it (G) and drag it (while holding G) into an empty space in the inventory, I once did this with a rolling box while setting up an SEP on my Apollo-11 style mission. And that was my first time using KIS. You could've just used the in game book.

thx

[Wyzard]

Does KIS support having multiple "mount" points (the kind that doesn't need an engineer or tool) on a single part?  I'm trying to put several mounts around the surface of a cylindrical part, but I'm seeing some weird behavior:

• If I put more than one MOUNT block (with different attachNodes) in a single ModuleKISPartMount, they all work for attaching parts without a screwdriver, but none of them work for detaching.  Pressing 'G' and hovering over the mounted part says "tool required", as if it's a regular node attachment instead of a mount point.  Also, the "Detach" button in the PAW releases just one of the mounted parts, but clicking it multiple times will release others.
• If I use multiple ModuleKISPartMount with a single MOUNT each, only the first one works for attaching without a screwdriver, and none of them work for detaching (same as above).  Also, I get multiple "Detach" buttons in the PAW, but only the first one releases its part; the others seem to do nothing.

[kerbalfreak]

Is possible to take a part with a Kerbal and put in a container for future use? I searched this, read the guide and tried in game, but I can't figure out this. Thanks!