mcwaffles2003 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Kerbalnaut #55487 said: 'Perception of value' is an interesting term... I will never be able to justify spending £50+ on a game - EVER! Why? £50/$60 is not that much money... Especially if you get over 20 hours out of it. That's £2.5/$3 per hour for a short game. With a game like kerbal where people get 100s,1000s, or even for some over 10000 hours in you are talking £0.50,£0.05, or even less than 1 cent per hour of enjoyment. Where else do you get that? Not to mention games have been £50/$60 for a long time and have barely got more expensive than they were 20 years ago. Accounting for inflation, games have gotten cheaper over the years https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/2020?endYear=2000&amount=60 Edited June 11, 2020 by mcwaffles2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bej Kerman Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 37 minutes ago, mcwaffles2003 said: 3 hours ago, Kerbalnaut #55487 said: 'Perception of value' is an interesting term... I will never be able to justify spending £50+ on a game - EVER! Why? £50/$60 is not that much money... Especially if you get over 20 hours out of it. That's £2.5/$3 per hour for a short game. With a game like kerbal where people get 100s,1000s, or even for some over 10000 hours in you are talking £0.50,£0.05, or even less than 1 cent per hour of enjoyment. Where else do you get that? Not to mention games have been £50/$60 for a long time and have barely got more expensive than they were 20 years ago. Accounting for inflation, games have gotten cheaper over the years https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/2020?endYear=2000&amount=60 Besides, Nate and his team are building a small universe while also trying to pay for their needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisias Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 3 hours ago, mcwaffles2003 said: Why? £50/$60 is not that much money... Especially if you get over 20 hours out of it. That's £2.5/$3 per hour for a short game. With a game like kerbal where people get 100s,1000s, or even for some over 10000 hours in you are talking £0.50,£0.05, or even less than 1 cent per hour of enjoyment. Where else do you get that? That's your perception of the KPS's value. I know people that spends thousands of USD on Apple products, but "don't waste" money on games (Forum rules prevent me to explain how they get their games). Go figure it out... On 6/10/2020 at 2:44 PM, mcwaffles2003 said: Is a game 2 or so months from release really going to change that dramatically after over 4 years of development? You must be new around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandaman Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 2 hours ago, mcwaffles2003 said: Why? £50/$60 is not that much money... With all due respect, that can be quite subjective. Whilst I agree that in the 'grand scheme of things' £50/$60 is not a particularly large sum, it can still be very prohibitive, depending on an individual's circumstances (and/or opinion). I do agree completely that KSP has, for me, been without doubt by far and beyond the best value for money in terms of cost per hour of fun and entertainment. And still would be even if I'd paid that (or even double that) for it at the time. I bought KSP in early access way back in 2013 for about £17 iirc and, despite being in my (very) early 50's with a good job etc, circumstances meant that I still had to think about whether I could spare it and justify spending it on that at the time. Nowadays it is less of a dilemma for me, but for many others, it may not be quite that simple. Not that I think the price is unreasonable, far from it, at the same price bracket as many other games I think KSP2 will still be the best value out there (with the exception of KSP1, possibly). @mcwaffles2003, I did not intend to suggest that you meant that 'anyone can afford that if they want to', so my apologies if this came across that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerbalnaut #55487 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, mcwaffles2003 said: Why? £50/$60 is not that much money... Especially if you get over 20 hours out of it. That's £2.5/$3 per hour for a short game. With a game like kerbal where people get 100s,1000s, or even for some over 10000 hours in you are talking £0.50,£0.05, or even less than 1 cent per hour of enjoyment. Where else do you get that? Not to mention games have been £50/$60 for a long time and have barely got more expensive than they were 20 years ago. Accounting for inflation, games have gotten cheaper over the years https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/2020?endYear=2000&amount=60 Because I have different priorities perhaps... rent to pay etc... not to mention I didn't have hardware good enough to play a game like this until the prices for those came down too. I can be pretty sure that the hardware I have upon release of KSP 2 won't run that either... it's not just the software, it's everything else with it. EDIT - and to be fair, after adding the RSS/RO/RP-1 mods and associated additions, the 8GB RAM in my £700 'gaming' laptop is showing signs of needing to be upgraded - 90%+ usage launching sounding rockets... that's another £100-150 I need to spend. Edited June 11, 2020 by Kerbalnaut #55487 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcwaffles2003 Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 On 6/11/2020 at 2:53 PM, Lisias said: On 6/11/2020 at 11:15 AM, mcwaffles2003 said: £50/$60 is not that much money... Especially if you get over 20 hours out of it. That's £2.5/$3 per hour for a short game. With a game like kerbal where people get 100s,1000s, or even for some over 10000 hours in you are talking £0.50,£0.05, or even less than 1 cent per hour of enjoyment. Where else do you get that? That's your perception of the KPS's value. I know people that spends thousands of USD on Apple products, but "don't waste" money on games (Forum rules prevent me to explain how they get their games). Go figure it out... You must be new around here. It's not even. It is an objective fact that if you play a game for 100 hours and that game cost you $60 you have then received entertainment at a rate of $0.60/hour. If the game does not provide you a quality of entertainment worth that rate of cost is a perception of value. But I argue, in general, that $0.60/hr for entertainment is very cheap. A small visit to the bar could cost $20 and last 2 hours... that is paying $10/hr for entertainment, over 15x the rate you get for a video game played for 100 hours On 6/11/2020 at 4:05 PM, Kerbalnaut #55487 said: EDIT - and to be fair, after adding the RSS/RO/RP-1 mods and associated additions, the 8GB RAM in my £700 'gaming' laptop is showing signs of needing to be upgraded - 90%+ usage launching sounding rockets... that's another £100-150 I need to spend. An 8 gig stick of laptop memory is not $115 - $170 >.> Try $30 https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?d=8gb+ram+laptop&N=100007635 600213066 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisias Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, mcwaffles2003 said: It's not even. It is an objective fact that if you play a game for 100 hours and that game cost you $60 you have then received entertainment at a rate of $0.60/hour. If the game does not provide you a quality of entertainment worth that rate of cost is a perception of value. But I argue, in general, that $0.60/hr for entertainment is very cheap. A small visit to the bar could cost $20 and last 2 hours... that is paying $10/hr for entertainment, over 15x the rate you get for a video game played for 100 hours There's no objective fact on pricing, dude. People buys stuff biased on their own perceptions of value. There're tons of material to be read on the Internet, but I will pinpoint you to the first one on my google: https://hbr.org/2017/01/how-customers-perceive-a-price-is-as-important-as-the-price-itself One thing that you are not taking into consideration is that people also values their own time spent on the game - and this is the reason that people reacts badly when they lose their savegames, as they perceive it as a loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcwaffles2003 Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Lisias said: There's no objective fact on pricing, dude. But "price" is an objective fact... there is a price... in reality... that must be paid. That is what I have described, twice now, as fact. "Pricing" is a measure of value and associating a price properly to a products estimated value. It is an objective fact that the game on launch will be $60, the math of cost per time of entertainment is an objective fact . I have not asserted, as a fact, that the games value to everyone is $60. 3 hours ago, Lisias said: One thing that you are not taking into consideration is that people also values their own time spent on the game - and this is the reason that people reacts badly when they lose their savegames, as they perceive it as a loss. Actually, I did take that into consideration... Right here... 3 hours ago, mcwaffles2003 said: If the game does not provide you a quality of entertainment worth that rate of cost is a perception of value Please actually deal with an argument that exists and don't make up one for me that is not mine. [snip] Edited June 13, 2020 by Snark Redacted by moderator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snark Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 Some content has been redacted and/or removed, due to personal remarks. Folks, let's please keep it civil and remember that we're all friends, here. There's no call to get personal. And if you think someone else is getting personal, please do not respond; trying to "retaliate" only makes it worse. Instead, just report the post and the moderators will have a look. We'll sort out anything that needs sorting out-- that's our job, not yours. Thank you for your understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerbalnaut #55487 Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, mcwaffles2003 said: An 8 gig stick of laptop memory is not $115 - $170 >.> Try $30 You're making assumptions that it's an 8GB stick I would use... try 2 x 16gb so I don't need to upgrade again in another 6 months after another ton of memory crippling updates from more than a dozen pieces of software already installed... Seems my personal observation on the term perception of value - an entirely unique per person aspect that no one person can enforce on any other person - is a source of contention, so you have my apologies for that. I only mentioned it as some had mentioned the pricing and I added my perspective on that. Which also seems to be derailing the thread a bit. The main point I wanted to make with my first post was... Electronic Arts not getting involved.... phew and T2 are too big of a company to warrant the use of the Early Access program - they should be able to put out a spotless KSP2 in full on day one! I would add that a demo would be the perfect thing for it, it'll showcase new features and whet appetites, also... if polished enough there should be an early release to the more popular modders under NDA so they can work their magic and maybe even have some mods ready for the day the game is released... Demo - yes, EA - shouldn't qualify to use the facility in my eyes Edited June 13, 2020 by Kerbalnaut #55487 Demo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandaman Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) Early access was appropriate for the original, without doubt IMHO. It was a new concept, from a 'non game' company, created as a side project by one of their key employees. They had no idea whether it was even viable to put it on the market. Now KSP is a well established and well respected 'brand'. They don't need to 'test the water' to see if anyone is even interested, so early access would serve no valuable purpose and would, due to needing to have it stable and semi-polished for the general public, probably 'get in the way' of getting it finished and ready for proper release. Edited June 13, 2020 by pandaman Minor spelling corrections Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Probro Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 i kid you not i legit thought you meant EA a in electronic arts i was about to say....... but anyway if you did end up getting a early access of a game thats 1 year before the release date no doubt in my mind it would be a buggy mess, lets leave the devs to polish things out shall we Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic kerbal Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 On 6/11/2020 at 1:00 PM, Kerbalnaut #55487 said: 'Perception of value' is an interesting term... I will never be able to justify spending £50+ on a game - EVER! Because of this, I rarely (if ever) get new games on release these days. And 9 times out of 10 you end up having to purchase further DLCs to finish the main story - which is a disgrace! I think I'd briefly heard about KSP at some point but never looked further into it... a possible regret since I now know how incredibly awesome this simulator is - how fun the stock version is and how difficult the RSS/RO/RP-1 mods make it! The ONLY reason I now have this software is due to Steam having done a free play weekend (week) tied in with a longer standing discount. I found this free play option with 3 days left on it and it blindsided me, I paid the offer price of around £25 (steam full price £55), for the main game and both DLCs, before my 3 days were up and I've never looked back. Due to my perspective on the value of games, this discount didn't lose anyone, any amount of money, it gained them my £25. How many other people look at it the same way I wonder... As much as I may be looking forward to KSP2, I will most likely have to wait until a similar offer comes along for that too. Old or new no game is worth more than its customer is willing to pay for it. Given the unmitigated success of KSP1 (critical acclaim from various space agencies - not to mention NASA using the simulator to plan REAL WORLD asteroid avoidance strategies), I don't believe an Early Access is warranted or needed. This facility is primarily to showcase new concepts/indy games/small developers work. KSP 2 Release should be a fully complete polished version of an upgraded KSP. And yes, I cried a bit at the topic title as I thought the epic ruiners that are Electronic Arts were getting involved... I would have to agree no matter how much I am looking forward to KSP2 I will probably have to wait until a deal comes out but if it is £50 or less but until then I would just have to master the first game( which I haven’t done anyway) but I am still real hyped for the second one anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic kerbal Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 On 6/21/2020 at 5:58 AM, Probro said: i kid you not i legit thought you meant EA a in electronic arts i was about to say....... but anyway if you did end up getting a early access of a game thats 1 year before the release date no doubt in my mind it would be a buggy mess, lets leave the devs to polish things out shall we Definitely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic kerbal Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 Do you think that if EA made KSP2 that if they realised suit picker like they are going to KSP that in KSP2 it would cost money instead of being free Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Probro Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 5 hours ago, Jurassic kerbal said: Do you think that if EA made KSP2 that if they realised suit picker like they are going to KSP that in KSP2 it would cost money instead of being free nah m8 they'll probably give you a small selection of parts and just lock everything behind a dlc paywall including the suitpicker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starhelperdude Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 4 hours ago, Probro said: nah m8 they'll probably give you a small selection of parts and just lock everything behind a dlc paywall including the suitpicker they said they won't do this, look up Nate Simpson's post here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Probro Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 34 minutes ago, Starhelperdude said: they said they won't do this, look up Nate Simpson's post here i know they wond do it but if ea owned ksp THEY WOULD if take two does end up putting microtransactions in ksp2 and locks most of the pards behind a dlc paywall the backlash will be IMMENSE however i dont really trust take two with making ksp, see my previous posts for full context Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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