Xeldrak

What did you do in KSP today?

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I've learned more about aerodynamics and rocket science than I could ever learn at NASA, and I don't even build rockets!

EDIT: I'm also still in middle school.

Edited by Kebab Kerman

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Here's something for you "but planes don't scale to volume" folks

tYHGdst.png

It's the Chausiku Kibowen class heavy lifter, my attempt at combining the ease of use of a rocket with the efficiency and easy recoverability of a plane. I don't know if that's ever entirely achievable, but this is the closest I've gotten to it. It has no thrust torque issues, a dead simple launch profile, and dead simple re-entry, and it takes almost as wide payloads as pretty big rockets: namely, a 3.75 m fairing pretty heftily flared out.

To fly up, lift off at 100 m/s, point it up at just under 20 degrees, go have a coffee, and when you get back it'll be at 25 km, 1400 m/s so it's time to hit "2" and switch to rocket power and fly yourself to orbit. 

To fly down, set Pe to your preferred re-entry altitude, hold attitude between 45 and 60 degrees, watch it transition to normal flight, and coast home. You might have to pump any Lf/Ox you have left towards the nose as it does want to go into a flat spin if it's overly balanced, but that's about the measure of tweaking you need to do.

To land, glide starting at ca 100 m/s, gradually flare up, and use airbrakes if necessary; you'll touch down around 40 m/s or even below without being too flared up.

Note that most of that bulky body is structural/aerodynamic, it's not intended to fly with the tanks full, in fact about a quarter load of fuel feels about right for this payload.

Craft (with payload) is on KerbalX: https://kerbalx.com/Brikoleur/Chausiku-Kibowen

And a few glamour shots:

n6DoYZ7.png

Dz0RFYz.png

9YROYiV.png

Edited by Brikoleur

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3 hours ago, Geonovast said:

I've been trying to figure out how I could pick the things up, re-attach them to a tank and boosters, and re-launch them...

Loading new payloads might be interesting.

Do-able, fairly “easily,” if you use Infernal Robotics. A little harder with KAS. Possibly still doable in stock but would require ingenuity far beyond my snarky remarks. :rolleyes:

If you assemble everything with docking ports, that would at least make re-assembly possible, tho your craft would have to cycle back thru the VAB for a refit. 

I think the whole thing could be done, with IR, FMRS for landing the boosters, and a lot of patience. Whether you’d want to dump the time in, tho... :D

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1 minute ago, CatastrophicFailure said:

Do-able, fairly “easily,” if you use Infernal Robotics. A little harder with KAS. Possibly still doable in stock but would require ingenuity far beyond my snarky remarks. :rolleyes:

If you assemble everything with docking ports, that would at least make re-assembly possible, tho your craft would have to cycle back thru the VAB for a refit. 

I think the whole thing could be done, with IR, FMRS for landing the boosters, and a lot of patience. Whether you’d want to dump the time in, tho... :D

Yeah these things are definitely not stock.

I was thinking IR would be necessary, as well as some KAS and Konstruction!  I already have all of those installed, I've just never done much with IR.

It would take quite a rework to recover the boosters.  Also I don't know if any mod exists that would allow me to refill SRBs.  I'm sure it could be fairly easy to patch that though.

The fuel tank also always comes to orbit with me, so recovery of that wouldn't be terrifically difficult.  Gonna need a lot of practice of getting boosters down from orbit to land at the KSC.

May operation "Really Nifty Timelapse" commence.  I do have a 3 day weekend coming up...

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13 minutes ago, Geonovast said:

would take quite a rework to recover the boosters.  Also I don't know if any mod exists that would allow me to refill SRBs.  I'm sure it could be fairly easy to patch that though

This part, at least, is easy. :D You’d just need a simple MM cfg to make SolidFuel transferable. I’ll ping @JadeOfMaar here since he’s more familiar with such. 

The fuel tank might be light enough, once empty, that it could survive reentry all on its own in stock. Maybe some fins for control. You’d just need a boat with a couple of Klaws to grab the boosters, would be a slow trip back tho. 

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1 minute ago, CatastrophicFailure said:

You’d just need a boat with a couple of Klaws to grab the boosters, would be a slow trip back tho. 

True.  Don't think it'd be all that terrible, since I'd be doing it once.

Noooo way would I do this every launch.

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@Geonovast @CatastrophicFailure I'm fairly confident no one makes SRBs refillable because SRBs are very cheap and generally expendable. The way I would go about making refillable SRBs is to insert a converter module (ISRU) into the SRBs themselves, and make the converter very slow and fairly power-hungry (filling an SRB is quite possibly more labor for man or machine than just pumping LF into its tank. SolidFuel sounds like the thing you have to cut the casing open for, or unscrew the bottom, then carefully pack and shape the SolidFuel, then reseal the casing).

The caveat I would add, to keep the process from feeling "cheaty," is that the SRBs do not get any buffer Ore tankage so they always need to be attached to a proper ISRU vessel to refill, and the high EC demand would simulate the need for welding torches and many hands on deck to unseal and reseal the SRB body on-site... Maybe make the process consume the tiniest bit of LFO too..... The welding torches might need a lot of fuel for this kind of work.

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20 minutes ago, JadeOfMaar said:

I'm fairly confident no one makes SRBs refillable because SRBs are very cheap and generally expendable.

Pity no one bothered to tell NASA this ‘bout 40 years ago. <_<

I was thinking just a simple “refuel from a tank” thing just to demonstrate that it can be done. 

45 minutes ago, Geonovast said:

True.  Don't think it'd be all that terrible, since I'd be doing it once.

Noooo way would I do this every launch.

Naw, but even one cycle would be epic. :D Don’t think I’ve ever known anyone to do a full recovery and reuse in-game like that. 

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3 minutes ago, CatastrophicFailure said:

Pity no one bothered to tell NASA this ‘bout 40 years ago. <_<

I was thinking just a simple “refuel from a tank” thing just to demonstrate that it can be done. 

Well, at least it works it's cheap in Kerbal Space Program. :sticktongue:

If refilling an SRB was simple it wouldn't be non-transferrable in the first place. :wink: Plus my method keeps things interesting for everyone. I'll pose a question now. How do you deal with restarting a used SRB? Or how do you stop it from burning the new SolidFuel as it comes in?

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20 hours ago, EpicSpaceTroll139 said:

Ok, this is actually from a couple days ago, but I've been working on a script that performs a RTLS recovery of the first stage of my "Failcan 1" rocket.

2018-02-11%2014-34-33.png

2018-02-11%2018-36-13.png

2018-02-11%2018-36-49.png

2018-02-11%2019-54-40.png

Currently it can return the first stage to the KSC peninsula from an equatorial launch with a certain payload mass, but I want to make it able to land on the launchpad (or more likely right next to it, since the launch structure is still on the launchpad) from an arbitrary inclination and with any launchable payload mass.

Let me tell you something: Spherical trigonometry + inverse orbital mechanics* = nuts. I haven't even gotten to the control loops yet.

It probably doesn't help that I'm avoiding making use of the Atmospheric Trajectories add-on in order to make it possible to run on more than one core at once.

*I'm having to run a few equations backwards from normal (such as finding true anomaly as a function of radius), in manners such that there is no way to solve them for the variable I'm trying to find. Thus, I have to use warmer-cooler algorithms to find an approximate solution.

 

 

 

Any chance i could look into the script as thats exactly what i am trying to do in RSS yet i havent found any equations for it anywhere, or just list a source

also you can directly call true anomaly from kOS: https://ksp-kos.github.io/KOS/structures/orbits/orbit.html?highlight=true anomaly

Edited by kerbinorbiter

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@JadeOfMaar I can hardly imagine the final closing/opening of a SRB fuel container being done with welding torches. That sounds like a recipe for... Wait that's actually pretty Kerbal! :D

In all seriousness though, considering some fuels are sensitive enough to be set off by stray static electricity (I honestly don't know how that gets out of the lab), I imagine that the few SRBs that are ever or were ever reused (ex: those of the space shuttle) are/were held shut by use of bolts and/or latches made of materials that do not readily spark.

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Finalized optimizations on that... thing.

LFzOswZ.jpg

Pitch authority has improved a lot, which allowed me to assign a 2nd set of large ailerons to roll. Wing area & tail section were also improved and extra Verniers were added in the pitch/roll set.

Fuel tank priorities were also set, to make sure it behaves orderly (due to it being tail-heavy, when unladen) and has a predictable re-entry. That's not to say you can't touch the throttle when landing. But don't expect to undershoot at let's say, the mountain range before KSC, use up the reserved fuel to reach the runway on powered flight and land in one piece, with Jeb's piloting skills. It just won't happen.

The irony is that up to this point, I don't have a real use for the capabilities of this thing. But it was a learning experience, which counts anyway :)

Edited by Atkara

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33 minutes ago, kerbinorbiter said:

Any chance i could look into the script as thats exactly what i am trying to do in RSS yet i havent found any equations for it anywhere, or just list a source

also you can directly call true anomaly from kOS: https://ksp-kos.github.io/KOS/structures/orbits/orbit.html?highlight=true anomaly

Sure I'll do that.

As for the true anomaly thing, I should probably clarify what I was doing. I know I can query my current true anomaly directly. What I need to find is at how many degrees in true anomaly ahead of me in orbit will I reach a given altitude (converted to radius first for reduction of work done by the algorithm).

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:(   There are some days when everything's going fine, and then I fire up KSP and my rockets start flipping and exploding.

Let's just say that if that inverse relationship holds true, then I am in for a spectacularly successful KSP session this evening.  

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All my assets for the Jool trip are up there, waiting for the transfer window. 

I decided to also send up another tractor because the Kosmodromians are complaining about the steering on the one they have, apparently it's not sensitive enough or something, like tractors are supposed to steer like sports cars, feh. But anyway, they're going to get an improved version with the Pelican 2. Didn't cost much or add many complications to send it there so why not. Maybe I'll blow up the old Massive-Kerguson to celebrate when Pelican leaves for home.

I also downloaded @Hotel26's Gossamer Albatross. It looks wack. Seems the first-class seats have heating as they're directly behind the Puffs that propel the craft forward. I've reserved a slot for it on the next C-K launch to take it for a spin on the Mun. 

The Eve and Jool launch windows are drawing closer though -- they're just a couple of days apart -- so I think the next big mission will be Valgas' Evian adventure. We will see what kind of trouble he manages to get himself into this time.

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Spent about six hours trying to figure out how to design an asteroid hauler that doesn't cost 100k+ funds so I can start trying to make some profit on the contract offers in my career mode.

 

Gave up on that and started to give some more thought to my LKO space station I've been wanting to throw up. Got the core of the station made and deployed before realizing that I forgot to include reaction wheels or RCS on it.... docking the next pieces is going to be interesting.

 

Still haven't touched SSTO designs.

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5 minutes ago, MaxwellsDemon said:

:(   There are some days when everything's going fine, and then I fire up KSP and my rockets start flipping and exploding.

Let's just say that if that inverse relationship holds true, then I am in for a spectacularly successful KSP session this evening.  

If life worked that way, I'd have won the Powerball or MegaMillions at least a couple times by now.

I spent Sunday rebuilding my computer -- new motherboard, AMD FX-8350 (8 cores/8 threads, up to 4.2 GHz turbo), 16 GB RAM -- and then installing a new version of Ubuntu (because my old version had gotten fouled up by what I think was a bad update).  Given I'm doing this on vacation (the only time I have enough hours all together to do this kind of work), I'm using a USB wifi dongle for connection, and I'd forgotten that the one I own is, um, a little flaky.  As in, after being connected for a while, throughput drops to zero and I have to disconnect and reconnect.  Do that a few (dozen) times and I have to restart the router to regain connectivity.  Doing this in a rented beach house is annoying in a way it could never be at home (where I use a wired connection on this machine, because of the bad wifi dongle).

That said, I've got pretty much everything back up except a couple installations that require a reliable, high-throughput Internet connection (I'll get those done when I get home).  Only thing still not working is my email -- same client I've used for the past (are you sitting down?) twenty-four years, and I've set up new after system upgrades/reinstalls/switches at least a dozen times.  This time, all settings were preserved, except for having to change the file paths for stored e-mail and the new version of SeaMonkey browser putting all my bookmark toolbar entries down in the bookmark menu with no hints how to get them back where I'm used to seeing them.

I also figured out an efficient way to run the same KSP save on two different machines (at least for Linux): install the same version/mods on both machines (the only mod I use in Better Burn Time), and make the "saves" folder a symbolic link to the actual folder, which resides in the local folder for my Dropbox.  Dropbox daemon syncs all three folders continuously, so as long as the Dropbox icon shows "up to date" when I point to it, I'm good to go.

And yes, KSP does run much better on this machine.  Despite all the warnings in my other thread about Intel processors beating AMD for all instances involving single-thread tasks, my old Intel (Core2Quad) was an old enough design that its work-per-clock wasn't much if any better than the AMD I could afford (yes, I'd rather have had a four-core i5 or i7 to get the same 8 threads, and got similar or better KSP performance at 3.5 GHz, but those cost 4-5 times as much).  Given my clock is now at least 1.5x what it was, and I'm not getting the thermal throttling I've been seeing on both my Core2Quad and my Core i7m (2 core, 4 thread) laptop, while I haven't banished the yellow clock, I no longer have the freezes where the CPU clock is scaled back to a few hundred megahertz while the core cools down.  A smooth game is much more playable -- no longer having the burn clock pause 20-30 m/s from the bottom of an 800 m/s burn makes a huge difference in my ability to make accurate cut-offs.  Same goes for when I'm trying to maneuver in a limited time (like turning a long, heavy launcher core to the node before I need to start my circularization burn).

So, with the new machine running the same save I've been playing on my laptop, I haven't gotten any screenshots uploaded (see above about connectivity issues), but Val did successfully carry three tourists to Munar orbit, dock with Mun Station Alpha, and collect a rescued engineer who'd been taken in by the station itself (station has considerable maneuvering capability, with four Puff engines, RCS, and a docking port in the cupola) -- then ran short of fuel on the way home; a rescue craft was sent up (also carrying a VIP tourist who only wanted to orbit Kerbin) and arrived with just about enough fuel, combined with what Val still had, to push the two docked craft into a reentry.  For safety reasons, the two craft remained together until reaching parachute deployment conditions (game deletes a craft in atmosphere if it gets out of physics range from the one you're flying).

Funds gained from those missions and a double rescue in retrograde Mun orbit went to making the final upgrade to the Space Plane Hangar; KSP is now fully upgraded except for the Admin Building (which is still in original condition -- got to keep those bean counters under control).  Sufficient margin existed to send up a pair of modules for Kerbin Station Alpha to give it similar propulsion and maneuver capability as Mun Station Alpha -- 12 Oscar B tanks and four Spark engines, plus the same RCS quads and tanks as on the Mun Station Alpha crew modules.  Recent rescue Jorlan, after insisting on a redesign of the module lifter (to push both modules rather than stuffing them in between the command pod and transfer stage as was done with the Mun Station modules), successfully docked both modules in the dark -- then realized, when the station/tug combination orbited back into sunlight, that one module was misaligned, so will need to undock and realign so that the Sparks won't spin and tumble the station when used to maneuver.

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2 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

I'll pose a question now. How do you deal with restarting a used SRB? Or how do you stop it from burning the new SolidFuel as it comes in?

MyzN6Pl.jpg

I... hadn’t considered that.... :blush:

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I've had my head down, staying out of trouble.

2 hours ago, Brikoleur said:

I also downloaded @Hotel26's Gossamer Albatross

Great, and thank you, sir.  You're going to open a window on a Third View on the Mun, a way you've never seen it before.

I've perfected the art of pushing heavy equipment (e.g. Gimlet, my drill pig and Vodka, my new fuel truck) off the back of a Pterodactyl at about 3km over the target field.  [I'd show some pics of Pterodactyl circling on a wingtip, shepherding a load to the ground but for copyright issues...  :) ]  I did a real trial by delivering one of each to Lake Tahoe[*], one of my favorite places on Kerbin.

I dug up a program I wrote a couple of years ago and translated it to Java.  I'm gonna call it Kraft and I will publish it shortly.  I have already used it to rescue a craft file broken by excessive over-use of the Reroot Tool.  :)  If you speak Matrix, then you'll be able to comprehend an example attachment of its output.  Think of it as a blueprint tool.  Can be used also to compare revisions of the same craft to determine what has changed.

* 20S 70E, roughly speaking

 

  probeCoreOcto2_4293891022
    batteryBank_4290959796
      ServiceBay.125_4290960102
        batteryBank_4292971504
        Mark2Cockpit_4290959706
          noseConeAdapter_4290959612
            CanardController_4290959490
            standardNoseCone_4290959576
            CanardController_4290959540
          telescopicLadderBay_4290959440
        adapterSize2-Size1_4290960380
          adapterMk3-Size2_4290962504
            wingStrake_4290960510
            mumech.MJ2.AR202_4290960442
            dockingPortLarge_4290962540
              dockingPortLarge_4290962576
                fuelTank3-2_4290957910
                  parachuteRadial_4293738666
                  structuralPanel1_4290957284
                    wheelMed_4290957262
                  solarPanels5_4290956880
                  batteryBankLarge_4290956656
                    RCSTank1-2_4293931898
                      seatExternalCmd_4293923056
                      GrapplingDevice_4294749896
                  solarPanels5_4290956684
                  solarPanels5_4290956740
                  solarPanels5_4290956796
                  solarPanels5_4290956852
                  parachuteRadial_4293740464
                  parachuteRadial_4290956984
                  solarPanels5_4290956712
                  solarPanels5_4290956768
                  solarPanels5_4290956824
                  parachuteRadial_4290956932
                  structuralPanel1_4290957734
                    wheelMed_4290957712
                  structuralPanel1_4290957434
                    wheelMed_4290957412
                  structuralPanel1_4290957884
                    wheelMed_4290957862
                  structuralPanel1_4290957134
                    wheelMed_4290957112
                  structuralPanel1_4290957584
                    wheelMed_4290957562
            wingConnector_4290962472
              mk2FuselageLongLFO_4290962006
                adapterSize2-Mk2_4290961674
                  structuralWing2_4290961642
                    airlinerCtrlSrf_4290961608
                  adapterLargeSmallTri_4292349924
                    RAPIER_4290958778
                    RAPIER_4290958638
                    RAPIER_4290958918
                  structuralWing_4290961574
                    StandardCtrlSrf_4290961540
                mk2SpacePlaneAdapter_4290961908
                  advSasModule_4290961874
                    shockConeIntake_4290961846
                solarPanels5_4290961702
                airbrake1_4290961972
                sweptWing2_4290961804
                  structuralWing2_4290961770
                    airlinerCtrlSrf_4290961736
              wingConnector_4290962438
                structuralWing_4290962404
                  structuralWing_4290962370
                GearMedium_4290962336
              sweptWing2_4290962074
              sweptWing2_4290962040
            wingConnector_4290961508
              mk2FuselageLongLFO_4290961008
                mk2SpacePlaneAdapter_4290960910
                  advSasModule_4290960876
                    shockConeIntake_4290960848
                adapterSize2-Mk2_4290960676
                  structuralWing2_4290960644
                    airlinerCtrlSrf_4290960610
                  structuralWing_4290960576
                    StandardCtrlSrf_4290960542
                  adapterLargeSmallTri_4292349192
                    RAPIER_4292347442
                    RAPIER_4292347986
                    RAPIER_4292348606
                sweptWing2_4290960806
                  structuralWing2_4290960772
                    airlinerCtrlSrf_4290960738
                solarPanels5_4290960704
                airbrake1_4290960974
              sweptWing2_4290961076
              sweptWing2_4290961042
              wingConnector_4290961474
                GearMedium_4290961372
                structuralWing_4290961440
                  structuralWing_4290961406
                airlinerCtrlSrf_4290961110
            wingStrake_4290960476
          GearSmall_4290960348

 

 

Edited by Hotel26

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25 minutes ago, TeslaPenguin1 said:

When I get home, I will build a boat, and then an SSTO

I would like to see this..... But I have no likes to give.

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4 minutes ago, JadeOfMaar said:

But I have no likes to give

I did it for you then [the like].  I had wanted to reply and say, "if you get done early, how about a submarine, too!?", but I'm trying to stay out of trouble...  :)

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4 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

I'll pose a question now. How do you deal with restarting a used SRB? Or how do you stop it from burning the new SolidFuel as it comes in?

                MODULE
                {
                    name = ModuleEngines
                    isEnabled = True
                    staged = True
                    flameout = True
                    EngineIgnited = False
                    engineShutdown = False
                    currentThrottle = 0
                    thrustPercentage = 100
                    manuallyOverridden = False
                    stagingEnabled = True

                RESOURCE
                {
                    name = SolidFuel
                    amount = 375
                    maxAmount = 375
                    flowState = True
                    isTweakable = True
                    hideFlow = False
                    isVisible = True
                    flowMode = Both

Setting the bold values in the save file on the SRB fills it back up without auto-reigniting, and it can be fired again with an action group.

I'm sure someone who understands those setting better than I could make it stagable again as well.  I just ran a dirty test.  I imagine a mod could add a "refurbish SRB" button that would change the appropriate settings.

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