PS4 Announcement Discussion

[T.A.P.O.R.]

I don't own a PS4, but I don't think that porting it is a bad thing.

Hopefully it goes well and brings SQUAD revenue to expand the Proper Computer version to its full potential (whatever that may be, I love it as is).

[worir4]

If they can get it to run well on PS4 without simplifying it, then they must have done some serious optimization and that can only be a good thing for the PC version right?

[stibbons]

0.90 was supposed to be the first beta release, but it couldn't have been as they added major features in it.

[citation needed]

So, assuming no new features were added in 0.91 it would have been the beta release. But they didn't release a 0.91, they released 1.0 without ever having gone through (traditional) beta.

Now, 1.0 also had several new features so it could be argued (and I do actually argue) that KSP - in spite of its version numbering - is actually still in alpha.

And the rest of this is highly subjective "the game isn't 1.0 because I don't think it is".

OK have fun with that.

[Red Iron Crown]

If they can get it to run well on PS4 without simplifying it, then they must have done some serious optimization and that can only be a good thing for the PC version right?

Depends on if the optimization is the "make it run more efficiently" type or the "limit things so we don't melt consoles" type. Really hoping for the former, and U5 is promising some performance increases either way.

[timandy1]

Let's compare this to Minecraft.

Minecraft is a game that started on PC, yet has a PS4 version.

Lots of people love Minecraft console version, despite the fact of no mods, no Bukkit, and controls that were intended for PC.

When Microsoft bought Minecraft in late 2014 everyone panicked due to microsofts track record with DLC, but everything turned out fine, for now, and the devs are still developing the game.

[r4pt0r]

[citation needed]

And the rest of this is highly subjective "the game isn't 1.0 because I don't think it is".

OK have fun with that.

You dont add major features in a beta release. thats not how things work. You add major features in alpha, bugfix and balance in beta.

The alpha phase of the release life cycle is the first phase to begin software testing (alpha is the first letter of the Greek alphabet, used as the number 1). In this phase, developers generally test the software using white-box techniques. Additional validation is then performed using black-box or gray-box techniques, by another testing team. Moving to black-box testing inside the organization is known as alpha release.

Alpha software can be unstable and could cause crashes or data loss. In general, external availability of alpha software is uncommon in proprietary software, while open source software often has publicly available alpha versions. The alpha phase usually ends with a feature freeze, indicating that no more features will be added to the software. At this time, the software is said to be feature complete.

Beta, named after the second letter of the Greek alphabet, is the software development phase following alpha. Software in the beta stage is also known as betaware. Beta phase begins when the software is feature complete but likely to contain a number of known or unknown bugs. Software in the beta phase will generally have many more bugs in it than completed software, as well as speed/performance issues and may still cause crashes or data loss. The focus of beta testing is reducing impacts to users, often incorporating usability testing

[boxman]

Welp, a Certain forum group is up in arms over an update again, looks like the forums are no-longer the 'Best Community' on the internet anymore, then again, they haven't been since 1.0 was announced...

With regards to the announcement, I think it's a good thing, the games reach will expand once again, to the reach of the non-PC gamer, I know a friend who will be interested, as he doesn't have a decent PC, only every PlayStation under the sun...

So criticizing something we think is a bad idea is being completely up in arms??

And for your information we who warned about the last updates were completely proven correct. Both when it came to .90 and 1.0.

[sal_vager]

There's something I want to bring up here, and that is the effect the PS4 hardware limitations might have on KSP.

First off, graphics, I don't think this will be a problem as stock KSP isn't exactly that graphically demanding, and even in the future should Squad decide to take advantage of Unity5 graphical effects, the PS4 limits shouldn't be a cause for concern as KSP already supports lower end PC hardware, there are many options to reduce the graphical load.

I'd expect the PS4 to have some of the higher end options that we'd enjoy removed, or even be set to one graphics "level" by the other dev team, as KSP is one of those few games being ported to console, rather then from it.

What is interesting though, is the PS4's 8 cores and Unity5's implementation of PhysX, that allows physics to be shared across cores, that's something we'll have on PC as well with the Unity5 release as it's all handled by the engine automatically.

It'd be interesting to know how good the PS4 handles physics.

[boxman]

Implementing multi-threaded physics would be a huge time consuming task, incredibly difficult if not near-impossible without re-writing the physics engine. And given the performance improvements you'd get out of it, Squad would have already mentioned it.

This either means that they haven't started implementing multi-threaded physics (which I'm sorry to say probably means they never will),

OR

They have and have kept quiet about it (seems very unlikely)

The first time they mentioned Unity 5 and how they wanted to do a port as soon as they got their hands on it, it was said that the changes in unity 5 would most likely allow them to do multithreaded physics over several cores. So yes they have indeed suggested that some kind of multicore is actually now possible in some form or another.

[Beale]

SQUAD will have to employ extra people, as to not impact the main KSP development, right?

The mouse-touch-pad on the DS4 is quite decent, - but, I think it will be hard to replicate the speed of a mouse.

[sal_vager]

From the Unity blog.

Performance

PhysX3 is now prepared to run on multicores as the internal computation model is organised in tasks that can be executed on different cores. The SDK does all the multithreading, taking care of all the dependencies itself and granting optimal job decomposition.

From what we’ve seen so far, it’s reasonable to expect a doubling in performance generally just as a result of having a better code base and improved multithreading. In some instances, the improvement is dramatic, with up to tenfold improvements.

Performance ninjas interested in more data should visit Pierre Terdiman’s blog. He’s the core developer behind the PhysX SDK.

[technicalfool]

You dont add major features in a beta release. thats not how things work. You add major features in alpha, bugfix and balance in beta.

Everybody likes comparing KSP to Minecraft for some reason. So, without further ado:

http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Adventure_Update

http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Beta_1.7

http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Beta_1.6

http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Beta_1.5

http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Beta_1.4

http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Beta_1.3

http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Beta_1.2

http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Beta_1.1

http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Beta_1.0

[boxman]

@Linear

At least it seems to have clouds

[Harry Rhodan]

SQUAD will have to employ extra people, as to not impact the main KSP development, right?

They're outsourcing the whole port: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/content/344-Kerbal-Space-Program-is-coming-to-PlayStation-4-What-does-that-mean-for-you

[Beale]

They're outsourcing the whole port: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/content/344-Kerbal-Space-Program-is-coming-to-PlayStation-4-What-does-that-mean-for-you

Ack! Missed that, quite a relief.

Thanks for the link!

I'd probably buy a console version.

[Superfluous J]

[citation needed]

You seriously want a citation for their intention that the "Beta than ever" update was supposed to be Beta? Or maybe you want a list of the new features? Look up the changelog. I'm not doing your work for you.

Or maybe you want a citation about what exactly Beta means in software programming. Here's a citation for you: Google it.

[TYRT]

I'm happy for PS4 version *despite I don't have PS4*, but I'm totally frustrated. PC users don't even have a MP, and devs talking about PS4 version.

I hope PS4 version won't hinder development of PC version.

[theend3r]

I'm happy for PS4 version *despite I don't have PS4*, but I'm totally frustrated. PC users don't even have a MP, and devs talking about PS4 version.

I hope PS4 version won't hinder development of PC version.

I still think MP should come either after the rest of the issues are solved (+ features added like clouds, planets, eva activities) or never.

[Linear]

@Linear

At least it seems to have clouds

Sorry, they were added post-production. Real game must have a lower polygon count.

[RogalDorn]

I think that squad has their work cut out for them on getting the controls down. But considering what they were able to achieve with KSP, I am sure they can come up with something.

The game doesn't need mods to be fun. I've got nearly 200 hours in stock without even KER. Anything that can be done to increase the audience for something that promotes space exploration is OK with me. I don't understand all the recent negativity and attitude towards Squad. They have made a really special game and I look forward to seeing it grow even more in the years to come.

I don't own a PS4...but consider me all aboard the Hype Train for this one!

[cantab]

So I'll preface my arguments with two statements:

1) I'm not personally interested in this. I feel the PS4 doesn't offer enough that the PC lacks, and I also have a strong antipathy towards Sony that means I avoid buying their products.

2) I'm assuming the good-case scenario. That is, that the PS4 port has some time and effort put into making it good, that relevant development such as performance improvement is shared between PS4 and PC versions, and that compromises needed for the PS4 version are not forced on the PC version.

I'll grant the second one there is pretty bold. The company Squad have contracted-out the port to haven't worked on games for the mainstream consoles since the PS2. Contracting out the port at all probably restricts the code sharing between PS4 and PC versions.

With that out of the way, I feel Kerbal Space Program could work very well on the PS4.

Controls

The most commonly raised objection but I don't really see it as a problem. Considering flight, a keyboard is hardly an ideal control method being limited to binary on/off inputs and yet most players manage just fine. I've played KSP using a controller and for planes it's an absolute joy, far far better than using the keyboard. For rockets it's fine too. There are enough buttons for all the core functions. Now some of the ancillary stuff will be trickier, things like locking individual engine gimbals and so on, but I see no reason the developers can't solve that. Perhaps a menu-based system, perhaps using the PS4's touchpad, perhaps something else.

For the editor, again the current controls are deeply flawed. We're trying to manipulate things in a 3D environment using a 2D input device and it not infrequently causes trouble. Try moving a rocket to exactly where you want it in the VAB, or attaching an engine to a central tank and not the six tanks surrounding it, and we're liable to have problems. Now with a controller the player can have direct 3D inputs, with buttons or thumbsticks for up/down, left/right, and in/out, and all the problems that using a mouse brings go away. Done well the VAB on PS4 could be in some ways better than what we have now.

Then the control improvements needed to make the game work well on PS4 can be backported to the PC version, giving us PC players the best of both worlds with the possibility to combine a controller or joystick with a keyboard and mouse.

Ultimately the assumption that the PS4 controls are going to be bad is an argument from ignorance. Just because you can't imagine how the controls would work well, doesn't mean they cannot possibly work well.

Performance

This is a fair concern but I feel the developers will overcome it. KSP is going to need some serious optimizations to run well on the PS4, which it will get, not least because neither Sony nor PS4 gamers will be impressed with a lagfest. I expect Squad are reasonably confident those optimizations can be made when they announced the PS4 port, and I also expect they'll make it back to the PC version. Best-case scenario, for PC players lag is a thing of the past unless you go in for truly huge builds.

Mods

If there aren't mods for the PS4 version it's obviously a big minus to that version, but I doubt it will hurt the commercial success on PS4 much. After all I expect the typical KSP PS4 version buyer is someone who can't play the PC version anyway. On the other hand it will probably encourage Squad to make the stock game better, and add features that previously they were happy to "leave" to mods because those features need to be stock to be on PS4. Then the stock game is made better on PC too.

Rushed development?

I said from ages ago the move to "1.0 full release" was a business decision not one based on the development progress. I don't believe it was just down to the PS4 port plans though. There were many other factors that could have influenced Squad, such as the increasingly poor reputation of Steam "Early Access" or the desire to get the game in other storefronts. In any case KSP isn't a traditional release-and-done game, development is ongoing and the numbers mean nothing really.

[klgraham1013]

I don't get the hate. I'm really glad I can play most "console" games on PC now-a-days. Choice is almost never a bad thing.

The only real downside I can see is that console players won't be able to use the Stock Bug Fixes mod or Kerbal Engineer.

[Majorjim!]

Maxmaps has just confirmed that KSP will be coming to the PS4.

How do you feel about this?

What do you think it will do for KSP?

Discuss anything and everything related to it here, but please keep it civil!

Edited June 17, 2015 by Majorjim

[Columbia]

This is the Inc-red-ible thing how is this incredible? It's terrible news. And will only negatively affect PC players.

Oh man that's it then. How the hell are they going to find time to work on both fixing the PC version AND porting it to PS4?

Squad has partnered with Flying Tiger Entertainment to port KSP on to the PS4, so not all dev time is lost

Edited June 17, 2015 by Red Iron Crown
Edited quote to reflect Majorjim's self censoring.

[Robotengineer]

Between the touchpad and the gyroscope, the PS4 controller could manage I think, given a competent port team.

given a competent port team.

given a competent port team.

given a competent port team.

Something tells me we aren't getting a competent port team.