[Min KSP: 1.12.2] Pathfinder - Space Camping & Geoscience

[RedParadize]

Spoiler

3dsMax????

HERETIC !!!!

burn him

BURN HIM !!!!

Looks great ! 

[Angelo Kerman]

7 minutes ago, RedParadize said:

  Reveal hidden contents

3dsMax????

HERETIC !!!!

burn him

BURN HIM !!!!

Looks great ! 

Ya have to remember that I started using 3DS MAX about 2 years before ever hearing about KSP, so no Blender for me. Besides, there are a lot of tools in MAX that make my life much easier compared to trueSpace. And I use it for things other than KSP, so there!

[RedParadize]

A tool is just a tool. But...

Spoiler

Blender????

HERETIC !!!!

burn them

BURN THEM !!!!

[Angelo Kerman]

36 minutes ago, RedParadize said:

A tool is just a tool. But...

  Reveal hidden contents

Blender????

HERETIC !!!!

burn them

BURN THEM !!!!

Blender is aptly named given how the user interface is a mess.

Meanwhile, I'm gearing up for the next Pathfinder release, perhaps this weekend. This is the new Telegraph Satellite Dish. Right now it's equivalent to the Communotron88-88, but when KSP 1.2 is released, it will be a relay or ground control point as well.

Edited September 9, 2016 by Angel-125

[DStaal]

9 hours ago, DStaal said:

UKS auto-vents Dirt, apparently when you get a positive periapsis.  I'm not sure if that's something someone should talk to RoverDude about (and make it more useful for others) - probably in the CRP thread - or if you don't care, or if this should be an issue you want to avoid in other ways.  (And I'm not sure if that's in any container, or if it's just in a Kontainer.) 

And I got confirmation from RoverDude that it's USI parts that vent dirt - not all parts if you have UKS installed.  So if you have your own containers, no issue. 

[Stone Blue]

3 hours ago, Angel-125 said:

Blender is aptly named given how the user interface is a mess.

...And here I've been thinking thats just me... lol

[Bombaatu]

On 9/6/2016 at 2:13 PM, Angel-125 said:

I'm once again revisiting the recipies for this (sigh). I want variable crop yields, so I'm using a different formula than standard USI-LS. I'm leaning towards Dirt + Mulch+ Fertilizer = Supplies.

MKS has two different paths for making supplies: Agroponics (8 parts Mulch + 1 part Fertilizer = 9 parts Supplies, requires EC) and Cultivation (Dirt + Water + Fertilizer = Supplies, requires EC, not sure of ratio). In MKS, Agroponics is used in orbit since you can't ship up Dirt via Kontainers (it gets vented). On the surface, Cultivation is better if you have access to water. 

I know you want to do something different, so here's what I've been noodling on. Use a "Hydroponics" model  (Water + Fertilizer, requires EC, takes X number of days to produce a yield).  Hydroponics modules would not have to be manned but if it was, it could give a bonus based on Skill level and/or Stupidity (lower is better... ). 

• Optional bonus yield for Dirt?
• Optionally having X technology allows unmanned Hydroponics modules to use the highest on-board Scientist's skill level?

So now you need a means to create the required resources in order to close the loop. 

• Water - already covered by the Watney template.
• Fertilizer - already covered by the Pigpen template, but I would go a step further & have the Pigpen produce Fertilizer & Water from Mulch. Introduce a loss so the supply is not indefinite. Can be unmanned for a low (50-60%?) efficiency; if manned, gain a bonus based on Skill level and/or stupidity. Cap efficiency at 90%.
• Introduce a second Fertilizer production method that takes in a mineable resource (ore?). KPBS already has this in the form of their Algae Farm storage module.

With this in place, surface bases could become completely self-sufficient. Orbital bases would still need some periodic input, which makes sense.

Thoughts?

Edited September 9, 2016 by Bombaatu

[Merkov]

 

6 minutes ago, Bombaatu said:

• Introduce a second Fertilizer production method that takes in a mineable resource (ore?). KPBS already has this in the form of their Algae Farm storage module.

For what it's worth, base USI-LS actually has a precedent for this. The most recent USI-LS added the ability for the stock 1.25m ISRU to create fertilizer directly from Ore, though at a very poor conversion rate.

[Bombaatu]

3 minutes ago, Merkov said:

 

For what it's worth, base USI-LS actually has a precedent for this. The most recent USI-LS added the ability for the stock 1.25m ISRU to create fertilizer directly from Ore, though at a very poor conversion rate.

Was not aware of this; good to know. Thanks!

[Angelo Kerman]

22 minutes ago, Bombaatu said:

MKS has two different paths for making supplies: Agroponics (8 parts Mulch + 1 part Fertilizer = 9 parts Supplies, requires EC) and Cultivation (Dirt + Water + Fertilizer = Supplies, requires EC, not sure of ratio). In MKS, Agroponics is used in orbit since you can't ship up Dirt via Kontainers (it gets vented). On the surface, Cultivation is better if you have access to water. 

I know you want to do something different, so here's what I've been noodling on. Use a "Hydroponics" model  (Water + Fertilizer, requires EC, takes X number of days to produce a yield).  Hydroponics modules would not have to be manned but if it was, it could give a bonus based on Skill level and/or Stupidity (lower is better... ). 

• Optional bonus yield for Dirt?
• Optionally having X technology allows unmanned Hydroponics modules to use the highest on-board Scientist's skill level?

So now you need a means to create the required resources in order to close the loop. 

• Water - already covered by the Watney template.
• Fertilizer - already covered by the Pigpen template, but I would go a step further & have the Pigpen produce Fertilizer & Water from Mulch. Introduce a loss so the supply is not indefinite. Can be unmanned for a low (50-60%?) efficiency; if manned, gain a bonus based on Skill level and/or stupidity. Cap efficiency at 90%.
• Introduce a second Fertilizer production method that takes in a mineable resource (ore?). KPBS already has this in the form of their Algae Farm storage module.

With this in place, surface bases could become completely self-sufficient. Orbital bases would still need some periodic input, which makes sense.

Thoughts?

The way I've set things up currently, the greenhouses use Fertilizer and Mulch at about the same rate as a standard USI-LS greenhouse, but the payout is at the end of the growth cycle instead of a continuous output. To that mix I add some Dirt, which accounts for the variable crop yield. Most of the time, you'll receive a nominal yield of crops, and the Dirt is simply consumed, but a good crop yield means you get more Supplies than normal. So you have conservation of mass going on, with some fudge factor to help balance the random chance of receiving additional Supplies against a cost-prohibitive amount of Dirt added to the mix.

On an unrelated note, last night I discovered that making circular solar arrays that deploy smoothly is a lot easier that I thought, so I'm dusting off some old plans from Pathfinder's early days and creating the Sombrero dual-axis solar array. It's similar to this NASA image, but with twin "hats" as depicted on the left.

 

It will show up in Advanced Electrics, right when you get the Buckboard generators.

Edited September 9, 2016 by Angel-125

[DStaal]

9 minutes ago, Bombaatu said:

MKS has two different paths for making supplies: Agroponics (8 parts Mulch + 1 part Fertilizer = 9 parts Supplies, requires EC) and Cultivation (Dirt + Water + Fertilizer = Supplies, requires EC, not sure of ratio). In MKS, Agroponics is used in orbit since you can't ship up Dirt via Kontainers (it gets vented). On the surface, Cultivation is better if you have access to water.

This is inaccurate.  Cultivation (Aeroponics) uses Substrate, not Dirt.  Ratio is 5:5:0.03->0.5, if the wiki is correct.

The other thing to note in all of this is that RoverDude is planning on re-balancing all the USI parts with the 1.2 update.  It might be worth taking a look at what he does then before doing anything.

Your systems sound ok, with the exception of my original complaint about the Pigpen: I want to avoid the 'turn Mulch into Fertilizer and add Mulch to make supplies' path: It's inherently lossy, with no sustainable path, and logically questionable.    Mulch should either be a waste product, or an input with fertilizer.  If the Pigpen turned Mulch into Substrate (or Dirt) and water, and then you added Fertilizer (from ore, or gypsum, or someplace else), it would make much more sense.

[Bombaatu]

1 minute ago, DStaal said:

This is inaccurate.  Cultivation (Aeroponics) uses Substrate, not Dirt.  Ratio is 5:5:0.03->0.5, if the wiki is correct.

The other thing to note in all of this is that RoverDude is planning on re-balancing all the USI parts with the 1.2 update.  It might be worth taking a look at what he does then before doing anything.

Your systems sound ok, with the exception of my original complaint about the Pigpen: I want to avoid the 'turn Mulch into Fertilizer and add Mulch to make supplies' path: It's inherently lossy, with no sustainable path, and logically questionable.    Mulch should either be a waste product, or an input with fertilizer.  If the Pigpen turned Mulch into Substrate (or Dirt) and water, and then you added Fertilizer (from ore, or gypsum, or someplace else), it would make much more sense.

Thanks for the correction. And my "system" was me brain-storming as I wrote, so take it with a grain of salt...

[Angelo Kerman]

12 minutes ago, DStaal said:

This is inaccurate.  Cultivation (Aeroponics) uses Substrate, not Dirt.  Ratio is 5:5:0.03->0.5, if the wiki is correct.

The other thing to note in all of this is that RoverDude is planning on re-balancing all the USI parts with the 1.2 update.  It might be worth taking a look at what he does then before doing anything.

Your systems sound ok, with the exception of my original complaint about the Pigpen: I want to avoid the 'turn Mulch into Fertilizer and add Mulch to make supplies' path: It's inherently lossy, with no sustainable path, and logically questionable.    Mulch should either be a waste product, or an input with fertilizer.  If the Pigpen turned Mulch into Substrate (or Dirt) and water, and then you added Fertilizer (from ore, or gypsum, or someplace else), it would make much more sense.

No doubt I'll have to revisit things again in 1.2, but for now, the revamped Pigpen produces Fertilizer for Ore, or Gypsum, or Minerals.

And coming soon in post KSP 1.2. Project Sandcastle:

I haven't forgotten about this, just been busy with MOLE.

Some background research, in case you're interested.

Edited September 9, 2016 by Angel-125

[davidy12]

@Angel-125: Can you please somehow update the centrifuge to make it so that it can rotate through warp? (IE: Like Porkjet's Centrifuge). IR rips it apart in warp.

EDIT: ALSO: I know you've canceled Copernicus BUT, can you at least make a DEV

EPIC WORK!!!

Edited September 9, 2016 by davidy12

[Merkov]

23 minutes ago, Angel-125 said:

No doubt I'll have to revisit things again in 1.2, but for now, the revamped Pigpen produces Fertilizer for Ore, or Gypsum, or Minerals.

This is actually pretty perfect for fitting in with USI since the USI-LS mod adds Ore to Fertilizer (as mentioned above), and UKS's Regolith Sifter allows Gypsum to Fertilizer and Minerals to Fertilizer conversions. Of course, the smaller Extractor allows Gypsum to Fertilizer since I think that is USI's "preferred" route to sustainable life support (with Minerals being the secondary. That option was actually just added in the most recent UKS update).

On the topic of conversion rates, those are somewhat up to interpretation (based on how advanced you want to claim the Pigpen is). The basic UKS Mk-V extractor converts Gypsum to Fertilizer at a 100:1 ratio, the more advanced Mk-III Sifter converts either Gypsum or Minerals to Fertilizer at a 10:1 ratio. The stock 1.25m ISRU converts Ore to Fertilizer at a whopping 1000:1 ratio. (I think this is mostly so that people just using USI-LS have SOME option for self-sufficiency, though I think that leaves the door open for better technology than a basic ISRU to conceivably be more efficient.)

Not that any of this REALLY matters, but I appreciate that you tend to try to balance your mods with others, so I thought I'd offer some background.

[Angelo Kerman]

37 minutes ago, davidy12 said:

@Angel-125: Can you please somehow update the centrifuge to make it so that it can rotate through warp? (IE: Like Porkjet's Centrifuge). IR rips it apart in warp.

EDIT: ALSO: I know you've canceled Copernicus BUT, can you at least make a DEV

EPIC WORK!!!

Thanks! I remember building that, making the gold foil was a real challenge. My art skills have definitely improved since then. It took me a bit to realize that you meant the DSEV centrifuge. Rotating through warp is an IR issue and out of my hands. I am looking at an animated one-piece centrifuge though, if I can make it work the way I want to. A DEV would be fun as well, though you might want to look at @TiktaalikDreaming's Mars lander:

 

[Bombaatu]

1 hour ago, Angel-125 said:

And coming soon in post KSP 1.2. Project Sandcastle:

Ah-HAH! So *that's* what the "Construction Materials" storage template for the Buckboards is for. 

[Angelo Kerman]

3 minutes ago, Bombaatu said:

Ah-HAH! So *that's* what the "Construction Materials" storage template for the Buckboards is for. 

Combine that with the Buffalo's ISRU templates that produce construction materials, and its upcoming drill and 3D printer...

[Angelo Kerman]

Preview of the new Sombrero:

 

[DStaal]

Nice.  Going to be interesting to use - can they mount on the ground as well?  (KAS port?)

And I'll throw in a minor bug report: My stripminer can't seem to remember what resource it's drilling - every time I come back (which might mean scene load, and might mean game load, as I haven't visited the base twice in one session in a while) it's reverted to drilling for Ore.  The Golddiggers have no issue, and keep drilling for Water.

[Angelo Kerman]

2 hours ago, DStaal said:

Nice.  Going to be interesting to use - can they mount on the ground as well?  (KAS port?)

And I'll throw in a minor bug report: My stripminer can't seem to remember what resource it's drilling - every time I come back (which might mean scene load, and might mean game load, as I haven't visited the base twice in one session in a while) it's reverted to drilling for Ore.  The Golddiggers have no issue, and keep drilling for Water.

Absolutely. They are designed to be attached to the groung and connected to the base via KAS.

[DStaal]

Looking forward to it.  Beats sending Bill out to climb on top of the Buffalo to put a solar tower together. 

[Stone Blue]

23 hours ago, davidy12 said:

@Angel-125: Can you please somehow update the centrifuge to make it so that it can rotate through warp? (IE: Like Porkjet's Centrifuge). IR rips it apart in warp.

Hmmm... Have you tried Persistent Rotation ? ... Works with warping... Just got a couple recent updates, too

[Angelo Kerman]

Get 1.1 here.

Last update before KSP 1.2!

New Parts
- Added the Telegraph deployable communications dish.
- Added the Sombrero Solar Array. This dual-axis solar array can point at the sun in two directions.
- Added the Radial Engine Mount. It is particularly helpful for getting rovers onto the ground.

Greenhouses
- Growth time is no longer reduced based upon experienced Scientists. Yield is still affected by experience though.
- Greenhouses now show where they're at in the growth cycle and show up in the Ops Manager.

USI-LS
- Replaced Water usage with Dirt. Apparently Fertilizer is mostly water.
- Adjusted the resource consumption amounts to be comparable with stock USI-LS.
- While Dirt is an extra added resource, it accounts for the possiblility of improved yields.
- The Pigpen now produces Fertilizer from either Ore, Minerals, or Gypsum.
NOTE: expect additional changes once KSP 1.2 is available. It sounds like USI-LS is changing.

Other
- Updated support for CLS.
- The Sunburn lab won't have the ability to produce Coolant unless you have DSEV installed.
- Buffed the Doc Science Lab's data capacity to reflect changes in the stock MPL. It is still optimized for ground operations.
- Added a small nuclear reactor to the Nukeworks for those times when you don't land in a place that has geothermal activity.
- Fixed some KAS and lighting issues with the Gaslight.
- Adjusted tech tree positions of various modules; they'll show up roughly in Tier 6.

[DStaal]

5 hours ago, Angel-125 said:

- Replaced Water usage with Dirt. Apparently Fertilizer is mostly water.

(Mulch, not Fertilizer...  )

 

Yay!