[1.12.5] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.13.0 "Забытый" 13/Aug/2023)

[Zorg]

J1A (also known as J1U ie J1 Upgrade, or even J2) was then spiritually succeeded by Galaxy Express. J1 was a NASDA project I think while Galaxy Express was a private venture. I havent fully untangled the lineage though. Galaxy Express is literally an Atlas III first stage with the same or similar methalox upper stage as J1A.

Edited June 18 by Zorg

[GoldForest]

That's a big engine bell for the second stage. Kind of reminds me of the Agena final engine bell upgrade. 

[CobaltWolf]

WIP update on the X-15 pylon. Will be nice to have a consistent dedicated mount for it!

 

Also, I finally found a use for stock craft files...

[Entr8899]

@CobaltWolfIs there any chance of making more parts inventory-compatible so they can be placed in orbit? Stuff like the various MOL solar panels, the giant gold Skylab dish antennas, etc?

4 hours ago, Zorg said:

J1A (also known as J1U ie J1 Upgrade, or even J2) was then spiritually succeeded by Galaxy Express. J1 was a NASDA project I think while Galaxy Express was a private venture. I havent fully untangled the lineage though. Galaxy Express is literally an Atlas III first stage with the same or similar methalox upper stage as J1A.

Any plans to add the J1A single-engine mount? Also what mods even add decent BDB-looking NK33 engines?

[Zorg]

2 minutes ago, Entr8899 said:

 

Any plans to add the J1A single-engine mount? Also what mods even add decent BDB-looking NK33 engines?

Yes its on the list on github. @EStreetRockets made an excellent one for his Kistler mod.

Essentially I am considering it a generic mount but it will take styling inspiration from that drawing and will fit the NK33.

 

[Rodger]

1 hour ago, Entr8899 said:

@CobaltWolfIs there any chance of making more parts inventory-compatible so they can be placed in orbit? Stuff like the various MOL solar panels, the giant gold Skylab dish antennas, etc?

It's something I could maybe look into, but for now you could install this

Let it run once, then you can uninstall it, and keep the cfg file it generates in GameData. It should add volumes to (all, unless they have one already, or some other user-definable rules) parts based on their real sizes. It's also probably what I'd be using to generate part volumes for parts anyway lol

Edited June 18 by Rodger

[Pappystein]

3 minutes ago, Rodger said:

It's something I could maybe look into, but for now you could install this

Let it run once, then you can uninstall it, and keep the cfg file it generates in GameData. It should add volumes to (all?) parts based on their real sizes. It's also probably what I'd be using to generate part volumes for parts anyway lol

Remember, non Common bulkhead tanks are going to be in the region of 65-70% utilized (meaning only 65-70% the volume is Fuel, the rest is OPEN SPACE or utilized for things like Avionics)    EG Titan is I think 63%?  

Conversely Agena is about 95% utilized as it is both a Monocoque structure AND a common bulkhead.  Only the back half of the forward rack, which is included in the BDB tank, isn't utilized.    

Ballpark figures here, not exact cubic unit of measure by cubic unit of measure (or liters/gallons if you prefer)

[Zorg]

10 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

Remember, non Common bulkhead tanks are going to be in the region of 65-70% utilized (meaning only 65-70% the volume is Fuel, the rest is OPEN SPACE or utilized for things like Avionics)    EG Titan is I think 63%?  

Conversely Agena is about 95% utilized as it is both a Monocoque structure AND a common bulkhead.  Only the back half of the forward rack, which is included in the BDB tank, isn't utilized.    

Ballpark figures here, not exact cubic unit of measure by cubic unit of measure (or liters/gallons if you prefer)

This is about calculating a rough physical volume for inventory items using a bounding box, not tank volumes.

[Rodger]

8 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

Remember, non Common bulkhead tanks are going to be in the region of 65-70% utilized (meaning only 65-70% the volume is Fuel, the rest is OPEN SPACE or utilized for things like Avionics)    EG Titan is I think 63%?  

Conversely Agena is about 95% utilized as it is both a Monocoque structure AND a common bulkhead.  Only the back half of the forward rack, which is included in the BDB tank, isn't utilized.    

Ballpark figures here, not exact cubic unit of measure by cubic unit of measure (or liters/gallons if you prefer)

This is just for storing the parts inside inventories, so that doesn't matter, just the outer bounds, which is what KSP Part Volumes calculates. A lot of inventory spaces aren't even very realistic in terms of volume either lol.

But just having the part volume specified allows EVA construction to function, so that mod will allow parts to be manipulated by EVA construction where they'd normally not be able to. Great design on squads part there...

[L27]

Hey, huge fan of the mod! Works well and I haven't found a single bug yet. There is one inaccuracy- I believe the airlock on the bottom of Big Gemini is meant to be retractable on the gold foil version. If it's a technological limitation rather than a historical inaccuracy i totally get it lol.
Cheers,

L27

[Gupyzer0]

21 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

WIP update on the X-15 pylon. Will be nice to have a consistent dedicated mount for it!

That's pretty neat.

Hummm ... Might use it for a Blue Steel missile using the Blue Steel mod, I think it has the right  diameter for it  

[CobaltWolf]

11 hours ago, L27 said:

Hey, huge fan of the mod! Works well and I haven't found a single bug yet. There is one inaccuracy- I believe the airlock on the bottom of Big Gemini is meant to be retractable on the gold foil version. If it's a technological limitation rather than a historical inaccuracy i totally get it lol.
Cheers,

L27

Welcome to the forums!

Do you mean the docking snoot? I didn't know that, do you have a link to where you found that? I had issues finding enough reference material when I was making Big G.

 

1 hour ago, Gupyzer0 said:

Hummm ... Might use it for a Blue Steel missile using the Blue Steel mod, I think it has the right  diameter for it  

It might be a bit smaller than Blue Steel? Can't remember right now. I had to make the X-15 really tiny so that it didn't mess up the scaling of the carrier planes.

[Pappystein]

1 hour ago, Gupyzer0 said:

That's pretty neat.

Hummm ... Might use it for a Blue Steel missile using the Blue Steel mod, I think it has the right  diameter for it  

 

30 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

Welcome to the forums!

Do you mean the docking snoot? I didn't know that, do you have a link to where you found that? I had issues finding enough reference material when I was making Big G.

 

It might be a bit smaller than Blue Steel? Can't remember right now. I had to make the X-15 really tiny so that it didn't mess up the scaling of the carrier planes.

IRL Blue Steel is about 1/3rd the diameter of X-15   Blue Steel is like 18"  48" in diameter (looking up sources and will edit in a few minutes)  I looked it up see next:

Excluding a lot of factors, the X-15 is bigger but not as big as I originally thought  The core diameter is "about" the same (I am coming up with 56" for the core diameter of the X-15 based on 2 small scale drawings)   Cobalt may have much more accurate numbers since he scaled it from drawings.

BUT I will caution you,   IIRC the Blue-Steel in game is 0.9375m diameter and the X-15 at it's core is 1.25m Diameter

What does that mean for using it... You might have issues with the Blue Steel Fins clipping in on it... But do the Kerbal thing.  MOAR STRUTS!

Edited June 19 by Pappystein

[CobaltWolf]

49 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

BUT I will caution you,   IIRC the Blue-Steel in game is 0.9375m diameter and the X-15 at it's core is 1.25m Diameter

It was originally but I applied a 70% scaling to all the X-15 parts to make it more proportional to the real thing. Otherwise the carrier plane had to be nearly real scale which just looked awful.

[L27]

2 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

Do you mean the docking snoot? I didn't know that, do you have a link to where you found that?

I saw already thought it was odd that it was static, but I just kinda assumed it was meant to be. It made a bigger launch vehicle necessary. I saw in another mod (FASA, probably) it retracting, and it suddenly clicked that that was probably intended. This article certainly makes it sound like it should be, as if it goes on the bottom a more compact design is obvious, and since it was meant to be a rear docking port and not a storage area it's reasonable that it would be compacted on launch.

[L27]

And I should add, I think this is only the case for the smallest diameter version, the others I would assume to be static

[Entr8899]

@FriznitAny chance you could give the BDB wiki an update? It's a little outdated now... also I guess that goes for the ISS and SDLV guides too.

@CobaltWolfWhere can I find the to-do list?

[MashAndBangers]

39 minutes ago, Entr8899 said:

@FriznitAny chance you could give the BDB wiki an update? It's a little outdated now... also I guess that goes for the ISS and SDLV guides too.

@CobaltWolfWhere can I find the to-do list?

Pretty sure Friz only updates the main manual when there's an actual release.  Otherwise look at the issues section under Friz's github for the BDB manual to see in progress stuff https://github.com/friznit/Unofficial-BDB-Wiki/issues

Same for BDB  https://github.com/CobaltWolf/Bluedog-Design-Bureau/issues

[Zorg]

Updated CELV parts are up on github. The tanks have been remade and the extension tanks have been consolidated into b9ps switches in a cylindrical and conical part. The skirt has gotten a texture refresh while the aft sustainer mount tank only got a couple of minor tweaks. Its suggested to use Atlas II roll thrusters and the AJ60 motor for this build (the actual proposal called for a larger Castor of about that size).

With this commit I believe the Atlas revamp has now reached parity with all the old stuff with the exception of the LR101 in line variant, which is modeled but not yet textured. Everything else remaining on the list would be all new.

[Friznit]

2 hours ago, Entr8899 said:

@FriznitAny chance you could give the BDB wiki an update? It's a little outdated now... also I guess that goes for the ISS and SDLV guides too.

@CobaltWolfWhere can I find the to-do list?

 

1 hour ago, MashAndBangers said:

Pretty sure Friz only updates the main manual when there's an actual release.  Otherwise look at the issues section under Friz's github for the BDB manual to see in progress stuff https://github.com/friznit/Unofficial-BDB-Wiki/issues

Same for BDB  https://github.com/CobaltWolf/Bluedog-Design-Bureau/issues

This^

Though if there's anything specific to BDB that's in the release branch do let me know.  The non-BDB stuff for SDLV & ISS I may update one day if I do another playthrough with the more recent mods.

[Entr8899]

Is there any possibility of adding ultra-low-profile and various other switches to the RS68 so it can be used in some of the SDLV things in ORANGES, and maybe some other meme LVs? At the moment the feet of the mounting truss thing tend to stick out of like 80% of boattails you try to fit it into.

[Spartan Nat]

Alright so with X-15 development I have to ask about skids from a (hopefully not annoying) gameplay perspective: Are they going to work like wheel objects do or are they going to work like the landing skids from I think it's Knes?

[guest10985]

4 minutes ago, Spartan Nat said:

Alright so with X-15 development I have to ask about skids from a (hopefully not annoying) gameplay perspective: Are they going to work like wheel objects do or are they going to work like the landing skids from I think it's Knes?

They act like the skids from Knes, cobalt did a great job with the skids and the rest of the x-15. Also nice to see you, you won't recognize me from my from username(can't change the thing womp womp) but me, @ItsJustLuci and you (there might have been someone else) played halo together once.

[Zorg]

4 hours ago, Entr8899 said:

Is there any possibility of adding ultra-low-profile and various other switches to the RS68 so it can be used in some of the SDLV things in ORANGES, and maybe some other meme LVs? At the moment the feet of the mounting truss thing tend to stick out of like 80% of boattails you try to fit it into.

Unfortunately due to the way the RS68 is constructed, the thrust structure is integral to the whole thing. You have various support struts and even the gimbal mechanism hanging off of it. Taking into account the baked AO from all the pieces that connect to or pass near each other, making an even more compact version than the "compact" version shown here would mean redoing the power-head entirely. Almost 70% of the effort of making the whole engine.

[GoldForest]

37 minutes ago, Zorg said:

Unfortunately due to the way the RS68 is constructed, the thrust structure is integral to the whole thing. You have various support struts and even the gimbal mechanism hanging off of it. Taking into account the baked AO from all the pieces that connect to or pass near each other, making an even more compact version than the "compact" version shown here would mean redoing the power-head entirely. Almost 70% of the effort of making the whole engine.

The RS-68 is definitely a hard engine to put on any vehicle besides the Ares V and Delta IV. It might work for Jupiter, but BDB's RS-68 doesn't have the SDLV/Shuttle mount ring like the Konstellation RS-68 model does. (And yes, I am aware the Konstellation RS-68 is just the BDB RS-68 with said ring, but since you need a separate mod to have it, I'm treating it as its own engine in those terms.)

Hmmm. Only way I could think of to make it even more compact is to make it non-gimballing so you can get rid of the gimbal arms. Even with those gone though, the tubropump exhaust can't be moved inwards. At least not the brown(?) one. Yeah, a compact RS-68 would need a 100% redesign, and at that point, it's no longer an RS-68. Might as well make the RS-83, RS-84 or RS-800.  You could probably just give us the engine bell of the RS-68 attached to an SDLV/Shuttle mount ring, but then what would be the point? At that point, just use an RS-25 from RMM. Yes, the RS-68 has a little more thrust than the RS-25, but that can be offset by using another RS-25. 

The RS-68 is really a hard engine to work with in terms of rocket design, huh?

Inb4 Pappy jumps in with "I HAVE A DOCUMENT FOR THAT ENGINE!" in relation to the RS-83/84.

Hmmm. Apparently, the RS-84 was Kerolox and a somewhat successor, at least spiritually, to the F-1. It was also reusable? Nice.

Edited June 20 by GoldForest